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Stats observations

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33 players have kicked 4 goals on 4/4
21 players have kicked 5 goals on 5/5
12 players have kicked 6 goals on 6/6
7 players have kicked 7 goals on 7/7 (Laurie Nash twice)
1 player has kicked 8 goals on 8/8 (Tony Lockett)


Redman, I blame you.
 
Ron The Bear said:
In his 6th game for Fremantle, and the 6th of his career against Sydney, Tony Modra, wearing the number 6 guernsey, took 6 marks and kicked 6 goals in Round 6, 1999.
Click to expand...


Note the amount of 6's you've typed.
 
Fewest games needed to kick 50 goals in a season.


6 Tony Lockett . St. Kilda . 1991
6 Gary Ablett . .Geelong . . 1993
7 Ron Todd . . . Collingwood 1938
7 Ron Todd . . . Collingwood 1939
7 Fred Fanning . Melbourne . 1944
7 Jason Dunstall Hawthorn . .1992
7 Jason Dunstall Hawthorn . .1994
 

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Found another bit of info for you guys.

Former Demon Cameron Bruce jumped ship at the right time as he ended last year on 233 career games (9 for Hawthorn,) Jack Trengove (one of Melbourne's new co-captains) wears the No. 9.

He played 9 out of 25 games for Hawthorn and as we all know, 25 - 9 = 16 (Jack Grimes' number and he's also a co-captain.)

As we all know, 233 was Geelong's score in Round 19 last year and that it was Melbourne's 17th game for the year with 2 byes already experienced.

17 = Cameron Bruce's current number.

Carry on guys.
 
worbod said:
Fewest games needed to kick 50 goals in a season.


6 Bob Pratt . . .Sydney . . .1934
6 Tony Lockett . St. Kilda . 1991
6 Gary Ablett . .Geelong . . 1993
7 Ron Todd . . . Collingwood 1938
7 Ron Todd . . . Collingwood 1939
7 Fred Fanning . Melbourne . 1944
7 Jason Dunstall Hawthorn . .1992
7 Jason Dunstall Hawthorn . .1994
Click to expand...

Added one.
 
Ron The Bear said:
Code: 
W%Diff Cb Period1  P  W  L D Win % Period2  P  W  L D Win %
-----------------------------------------------------------
59.35% [COLOR=red]Sy[/COLOR] 1934-36 62 50 12 0 80.65 1937-39 54 11 42 1 21.30
51.39% [COLOR=darkred]Fi[/COLOR] 1959-61 56 34 20 2 62.50 1962-64 54  6 48 0 11.11
Click to expand...
These declines are very closely linked to the ultimate fate of Fitzroy and South Melbourne, whose fans from the old working class suburbs which began to decline in the 1920s could not accept either:
  1. large-scale business patronage which allowed Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond to dominate the competition especially between 1927 and 1938 when they took 31 of 48 finals places or;
  2. de facto profit maximisation which allowed the middle-class clubs of Hawthorn and St. Kilda to avoid the huge debts South and Fitzroy had incurred trying to increase their win percentages
The result was that South and Fitzroy were consistently losing money in their endeavours to win more than a tiny proportion of their games (in 1964 they lost all thirty-two games against the other ten VFL clubs) and could never get their finances into waters that would make increasing their win percentage economically feasible. Nor did they have any culturally suitable markets in the ultraconservative outer suburbs of Melbourne to relocate to.

The result was that South Melbourne and Fitzroy could occasional achieve on-field success after the 1920s from short-term recruiting binges or in Fitzroy's case a good country zone, but the cost of this places them further and further into debt with each unsuccessful premiership campaign.
 
This really is more an observation than a stat, but I have noticed that the next group of three teams to play in the NAB cup (this coming Friday), Geelong, St. Kilda and Sydney, have all taken part in a grand final dating back to 2005.


2011 Geelong
2010 St. Kilda
2009 Geelong and St. Kilda
2008 Geelong
2007 Geelong
2006 Sydney
2005 Sydney


Geelong and St. Kilda also played in the 2004 pre-season grand final.
 
worbod said:
This really is more an observation than a stat, but I have noticed that the next group of three teams to play in the NAB cup (this coming Friday), Geelong, St. Kilda and Sydney, have all taken part in a grand final dating back to 2005.


2011 Geelong
2010 St. Kilda
2009 Geelong and St. Kilda
2008 Geelong
2007 Geelong
2006 Sydney
2005 Sydney


Geelong and St. Kilda also played in the 2004 pre-season grand final.
Click to expand...
Preliminary finals since 2003;

2011 Geelong
2010 Geelong, St Kilda
2009 Geelong, St Kilda
2008 Geelong, St Kilda
2007 Geelong
2006 Sydney
2005 Sydney, St Kilda
2004 St Kilda, Geelong
2003 Sydney

Finals series missed since 2004 between the three clubs; 3.
 
Last time each team lost to the wooden spooner:

  • Adelaide: Round 22, 2001 (Fremantle)
  • Brisbane: Round 7, 2011 (Gold Coast)
  • Carlton - Round 15, 1997 (Melbourne)
  • Collingwood - Round 19, 2007 (Richmond)
  • Essendon - Round 16, 2010 (West Coast)
  • (Fitzroy - Round 16, 1991, Brisbane)
  • Footscray/Western Bulldogs - Round 8, 2004 (Richmond)
  • Fremantle - Round 20, 2009 (Melbourne)
  • Geelong - Round 16, 2003 (Footscray/Western Bulldogs)
  • Hawthorn - Round 7, 2010 (West Coast)
  • Melbourne - Round 8, 2010 (West Coast)
  • North Melbourne - Round 1, 1997 (Melbourne)
  • Port Adelaide - Round 5, 2011 (Gold Coast)
  • Richmond - Round 14, 2011 (Gold Coast)
  • St. Kilda - Round 13, 1999 (Collingwood)
  • Sydney - Round 7, 2004 (Richmond)
  • (University - Round 3, 1909, St. Kilda)
  • West Coast - Round 14, 2009 (Melbourne)
Some notable observations:

  1. It is interesting that only one (two if we include the bracketed University) were too early in the season for a "pattern" to be established
  2. Richmond have lost to the wooden spooner seven times since North Melbourne last did so
  3. Adelaide have only lost to the wooden spooner without defeating the eventual premier in the same season in 1995
  4. Carlton last lost to the wooden spooner without defeating either the eventual premier or minor premier in 1984
  5. North Melbourne last lost to the wooden spooner without defeating either the eventual premier or minor premier in 1989 (in a game which saw the highest score even by a wooden spooner of 26-15)
  6. Hawthorn last lost to the wooden spooner without defeating the eventual premiers in 2004
  7. Richmond never lost to an eventual wooden spooner between Round 10, 1937 and Round 1, 1967
    • In fact, the Round 9, 1937 game against North Melbourne was the only occasion Richmond lost to a wooden spooner between University's last win in Round 3, 1912 and Footscray's upset against an amazingly inaccurate Tiger side in Round 2 of 1967
    • After doing so in its initial 1908 season, Richmond except in its 1967 premiership year did not again lose to the wooden spooner without defeating either the minor premier or eventual premier until 1979!
    • For comparison, Carlton lost to the wooden spooner in 1910, 1922, 1937, 1940, 1943 (only win), 1951 (only win), 1953, 1954, 1957 and 1969
    • Collingwood lost to the wooden spooner in 1904, 1908, 1922, 1924, 1940, 1942 (only win), 1961, 1967 and 1987
    • Essendon lost to the wooden spooner in 1903, 1915, 1920, 1922, 1939, 1958, 1961, 1976, 1978 and 1987
    • Geelong lost to the wooden spooner in 1905, 1907, 1909, 1917, 1918, 1920, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1936, 1941, 1945, 1946, 1963 and 1970
    • Melbourne lost to the wooden spooner in 1903, 1904, 1907, 1921, 1924, 1932, 1936, 1946, 1953, 1959, 1960 and 1967
  8. The last time North Melbourne lost to a wooden spooner in the second half of a season was in Round 17 of 1973 against South Melbourne
  9. The last time Sydney lost to a wooden spooner in the second half of a season was Round 14, of 1989 against Richmond
  10. The last time Hawthorn lost to a wooden spooner in the second half of a season was in Round 18 of 2001 against the previously winless Fremantle Dockers
  11. The last time the Western Bulldogs lost to a wooden spooner in the second half of a season was Round 20, 2002 against Carlton; the previous example was Round 22, 1985 in an amazing upset by St. Kilda at Moorabbin
 
Excellent stats mianfei.

All-time record against eventual wooden spooners:

Code: 
Cb   P    W    L  D Win %
-------------------------
Co  213  195  15  3 92.25
Ca  210  189  20  1 90.24
Es  193  172  20  1 89.38
Ad   26   23   3  0 88.46
Sy  186  164  21  1 88.44
Ha  124  109  14  1 88.31
Br   34   29   4  1 86.76
Ri  167  144  23  0 86.23
NM  119  101  17  1 85.29
St  155  131  23  1 84.84
Ge  186  156  28  2 84.41
Me  186  155  29  2 83.87
Un    6    5   1  0 83.33
WC   35   28   5  2 82.86
Fi  171  139  30  2 81.87
WB  142  113  26  3 80.63
PA   20   15   3  2 80.00
Fr   24   19   5  0 79.17
-------------------------
   2197 1887 287 23 86.41
 
Anyone know when the AFL Record Season Guide or one of its predecessors decided to break with the traditional convention of the team last on the final ladder before the finals being the "spooner" and "award" the 1916 "wooden spoon" to Richmond? Was there no protest from the Tigers?

The League was happy up till at least 1990 for Fitzroy to be both Premier and "wooden spooner" for 1916.
 

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Ron The Bear said:
Code: 
Cb   P    W    L  [B]D[/B] Win %
-------------------------
Ri  167  144  23  [B]0[/B] 86.23
WC   35   28   5  [B]2[/B] 82.86
-------------------------
   2197 1887 287 23 86.41
Click to expand...
Little surprising, except that Richmond have never drawn with a wooden spooner, and two of West Coast's four draws in twenty-five years (in fact, their only two draws since 1993) have been with wooden spooners. More than that, of the other two Eagle draws:

  • one was with a team that was on the bottom for most of the year (Brisbane in 1992)
  • the other was not in a home-and-away game (1990 Qualifying Final)
Geelong drew with the wooden spooner in successive years of 1960 and 1961. No other pair of draws with a wooden spooner is less than seven years apart (Port Adelaide in 1997 and 2005) if we exclude 1916.
 
Ron The Bear said:
Excellent stats mianfei.

All-time record against eventual wooden spooners:

Code: 
Cb   P    W    L  D Win %
-------------------------
Co  213  195  15  3 92.25
Ca  210  189  20  1 90.24
Es  193  172  20  1 89.38
Ad   26   23   3  0 88.46
Sy  186  164  21  1 88.44
Ha  124  109  14  1 88.31
Br   34   29   4  1 86.76
Ri  167  144  23  0 86.23
NM  119  101  17  1 85.29
St  155  131  23  1 84.84
Ge  186  156  28  2 84.41
Me  186  155  29  2 83.87
Un    6    5   1  0 83.33
WC   35   28   5  2 82.86
Fi  171  139  30  2 81.87
WB  142  113  26  3 80.63
PA   20   15   3  2 80.00
Fr   24   19   5  0 79.17
-------------------------
   2197 1887 287 23 86.41
Click to expand...

The exact figures I have and I see a Tiger who doesn't hold with Richmond being given the 1916 "spoon".
 
RogersResults said:
The exact figures I have and I see a Tiger who doesn't hold with Richmond being given the 1916 "spoon".
Click to expand...

Glad I have no errors for a change. ;)

Probably should've included a footnote. My definition of "eventual wooden spooner" is the team that was last after the final h&a game.

Richmond were unworthy recipients as Carlton, which finished four wins clear as minor premier, defeated them by just 3 points in the semi.

Saw a post here indicating the decision to award Richmond the wooden spoon for 1916 was only taken recently and was influenced by the logistical difficulties of Fitzroy being declared both spooner and premier. Can't remember where I saw it though.
 
Travis Varcoe played his 100th game in the Grand Final and has participated in 87 victories.
Having played five seasons...he is yet to taste defeat at the hands of Brisbane, Essendon, Fremantle, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Richmond and the Bulldogs.

Only Collingwood and St.Kilda of the other 16 clubs have beaten a Geelong side including Varcoe more than once.

A pretty remarkable first 100 games of a career!
 
Catsace said:
Travis Varcoe played his 100th game in the Grand Final and has participated in 87 victories.
Having played five seasons...he is yet to taste defeat at the hands of Brisbane, Essendon, Fremantle, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Richmond and the Bulldogs.

Only Collingwood and St.Kilda of the other 16 clubs have beaten a Geelong side including Varcoe more than once.

A pretty remarkable first 100 games of a career!
Click to expand...

Going undefeated against 7 opponents in the first 100 games of a career is a record, ahead of Joel Selwood and Harry Collier on 6, and Mathew Stokes, Ashley McIntosh, Greg Dear and Albert Collier 5.

Losses to only two clubs, twice or more is also a record, the previous being 4 by Joel Selwood and old-timers Percy Bowyer, Len Murphy, Jack Beveridge, Charlie Fisher and Jim Flynn.
 
Ron The Bear said:
Glad I have no errors for a change. ;)
Click to expand...
According to the League we both have the same error - no 1916 Richmond spoon.

Probably should've included a footnote. My definition of "eventual wooden spooner" is the team that was last after the final h&a game.

Richmond were unworthy recipients as Carlton, which finished four wins clear as minor premier, defeated them by just 3 points in the semi.

Saw a post here indicating the decision to award Richmond the wooden spoon for 1916 was only taken recently and was influenced by the logistical difficulties of Fitzroy being declared both spooner and premier. Can't remember where I saw it though.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there have never been any rules written down as to how the "wooden-spooner" is arrived at. Even if you take in the finals, Richmond's match win percentage is still higher than Fitzroys and there has never been match points awarded in finals.

I think the post you are referring to could have been by me supposing that was what might have happened. Could also be just an error which is why I was interested to see when the change-over occurred.
 

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Ron The Bear said:
FWIW, the 2003 edition of the AFL Record Season Guide is the first to attribute the 1916 spoon to Richmond and not Fitzroy.
Click to expand...

Might have had a reason or it could be a 'typo'.

"FYI, I can live with the odd typo."
Michael Lovett
Editor AFL Record Season Guide.

(In correspondence regarding errors.)

The bulk of the Season Guide would be just copied and pasted in
from the previous edition and 'typos'/errors can be come cemented.

Might be fairer to assign the non-existent 'award' to nobody for 1916.
1916 was almost the VFL's 'Super League' year with Carlton, Collingwood
Fitzroy and Richmond threatening to form a break-away comp if the VFL
decided to suspend the competition entirely for the duration of the war.
 
RogersResults said:
Might have had a reason or it could be a 'typo'.

"FYI, I can live with the odd typo."
Michael Lovett
Editor AFL Record Season Guide.

(In correspondence regarding errors.)

The bulk of the Season Guide would be just copied and pasted in
from the previous edition and 'typos'/errors can be come cemented.
Click to expand...

Doesn't appear to be a typo in this instance.

2002



2003

 
Ron The Bear said:
Doesn't appear to be a typo in this instance.

2002



2003

Click to expand...
Thanks for the trouble of digging those out and scanning them. (It being a 'typo' was mainly me being facetious.)

You could think that there would have been a explanation in 2003 for the change in who got the 1916 spoon.

Although no mention was made of a reason when the Record switched how percentage was calculated during the 1931 season or when the 'goals' were switched from the one being defended to the one being attacked during the 1965 season. Maybe its a tradition not to explain such things? :rolleyes:
 
Ron The Bear said:
Going undefeated against 7 opponents in the first 100 games of a career is a record, ahead of Joel Selwood and Harry Collier on 6, and Mathew Stokes, Ashley McIntosh, Greg Dear and Albert Collier 5.

Losses to only two clubs, twice or more is also a record, the previous being 4 by Joel Selwood and old-timers Percy Bowyer, Len Murphy, Jack Beveridge, Charlie Fisher and Jim Flynn.
Click to expand...

Cheers Ron....worked out well that his 100th game neatly concluded in the final game of the year. Didn't know he also wound up in the record books for those two categories also.

Interesting to note that Matthew Bate opened his career with eight successive victories....yet by now has subsided to having a win/loss record of 26-63-1. Certainly from chocolates to boiled lollies for him.
 

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