Stats questions

[UpForGrabs]

Tom Hawkins is now listed as Tom J Hawkins on the AFL website. Was there another Tom Hawkins that played in the VFL/AFL?

Maybe it's because people always refer to him as "Tom A Hawk(ins)"?

Boom-tish... I'll be here all week (and year).

 

[RogersResults]

Tom Hawkins is now listed as Tom J Hawkins on the AFL website. Was there another Tom Hawkins that played in the VFL/AFL?

Tom Hawkins played 1 game for South Melbourne in 1904.

"South Melbourne gave a trial to a smart little fellow named Hawking (sic), from Kyabrum, who was sent roving. In strange company he settled down to work at once, showed none of the diffidence characteristic of the country player, and did really well."

Argus 1 August 1904

 

[Ron The Bear]

^^ Tom E Hawkins

 

[Ron The Bear]

Has there ever been a player with a career of at least 50 games who made his debut and played his final game against the same opponent, and also at the same venue?

110 such players. Another 6 current players would qualify if they didn't play again.

first - Charlie Sime (Co, 1897-1901) v St.Kilda at Victoria Park
last - Brad Fisher (Ca, 2003-2010) v Collingwood at the MCG

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Has there been any cases of players being born on the same day other players retired?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Has there been any cases of players being born on the same day other players retired?

I've got more than 2,800 instances in my database. Obviously in many cases the "retiring" players wouldn't have been aware they were playing their final game.

One of the longest sequences is

Les Hughes (Co) b. 18/4/1884, 225 games, last game 9/9/1922
Kevin Sullivan (Co) b. 9/9/1922, 13 games, last game 27/4/1946
Barry Leslie (Co, NM) b. 27/4/1946, 5 games, last game 20/7/1968
Garry Phillips (Ge) b. 20/7/1968, 3 games, last game 1/9/1990
Shaun McKernan (Ad) b. 1/9/1990, 23 games...

There are nine such sequences which end in Leslie/Phillips/McKernan, and another four which involve five players and finish with Nathan Brown (Melbourne version).

A few interesting ones:
Brian Dixon (Me 252 games) - 31/8/1968 - Mick Martyn (NM/Car, 300 games)
Francis Bourke (Ri 300) - 27/6/1981 - Andrew Embley (WC 239*)
Barry Breen (St 300) - 10/7/1982 - Sam Fisher (St 182*)
Mick Malthouse (St/Ri 174) - 28/5/1983 - Ben Rutten (Ad 194*)
Kelvin Templeton (WB/Me 177) - 20/7/1985 - David Mundy (Fr 164*)
Robert DiPierdomenico (Ha 240) - 10/6/1991 - Mitch Duncan (Ge 51*)
Bill Jory (NM 1) - 18/6/1938 - Kevin Murray (Fi 333)
Kevin Neale (St 256) - 27/8/1977 - Nick Jewell (Ri 1)

 

[RedmanWasHere]

I've got more than 2,800 instances in my database. Obviously in many cases the "retiring" players wouldn't have been aware they were playing their final game.

One of the longest sequences is

Les Hughes (Co) b. 18/4/1884, 225 games, last game 9/9/1922
Kevin Sullivan (Co) b. 9/9/1922, 13 games, last game 27/4/1946
Barry Leslie (Co, NM) b. 27/4/1946, 5 games, last game 20/7/1968
Garry Phillips (Ge) b. 20/7/1968, 3 games, last game 1/9/1990
Shaun McKernan (Ad) b. 1/9/1990, 23 games...

There are nine such sequences which end in Leslie/Phillips/McKernan, and another four which involve five players and finish with Nathan Brown (Melbourne version).

A few interesting ones:
Brian Dixon (Me 252 games) - 31/8/1968 - Mick Martyn (NM/Car, 300 games)
Francis Bourke (Ri 300) - 27/6/1981 - Andrew Embley (WC 239*)
Barry Breen (St 300) - 10/7/1982 - Sam Fisher (St 182*)
Mick Malthouse (St/Ri 174) - 28/5/1983 - Ben Rutten (Ad 194*)
Kelvin Templeton (WB/Me 177) - 20/7/1985 - David Mundy (Fr 164*)
Robert DiPierdomenico (Ha 240) - 10/6/1991 - Mitch Duncan (Ge 51*)
Bill Jory (NM 1) - 18/6/1938 - Kevin Murray (Fi 333)
Kevin Neale (St 256) - 27/8/1977 - Nick Jewell (Ri 1)

There's nothing we can't stump you with.


What about this, players who were born, debuted and retired on the same day as notable global events.

 

[SJ]

What about two players who played together, where one debuted on the same day another was born?

 

[Ron The Bear]

What about two players who played together, where one debuted on the same day another was born?

Has never happened as far as I can tell. The only cases of a player making his debut on another's birthdate, and both players later participating in the same round are

Roger Merrett, first game 1/4/1978
Donald Cockatoo-Collins, b. 1/4/1978
David Cockatoo-Collins, b. 1/4/1978

All three played in Round 1, 1996, and Merrett & Donald played in Round 2.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What about this, players who were born, debuted and retired on the same day as notable global events.

Bit of work in that, might have to be an ongoing thing.

 

[worbod]

110 such players. Another 6 current players would qualify if they didn't play again.

first - Charlie Sime (Co, 1897-1901) v St.Kilda at Victoria Park
last - Brad Fisher (Ca, 2003-2010) v Collingwood at the MCG

Thanks Ron. The reason I asked this was because of a similar question posted on Cricinfo about Test cricketers. It's probably easiest if I just paste the question here:

Paul Harris, who's just retired, played his first and last Tests against the same opposition, on the same ground, on the same days of the year. Surely this must be unique? asked Ethan Rocky
Paul Harris made his Test debut for South Africa against India in Cape Town, in a match that stretched from January 2-6, 2007, and four years later played what turned out to be his final Test, against India, in Cape Town, in a match that lasted from January 2-6. I've learned over the years to assume that almost every oddity in cricket has actually happened before, however unlikely it seems, and Aslam Siddiqui, an ardent Facebooker, came up with another example, saving me a lot of legwork! Ghulam Ahmed, the offspinner who occasionally captained India, made his Test debut against West Indies in Kolkata in a match that started on December 31, 1948, and ended on January 4, 1949 - and his last Test was against West Indies, in Kolkata, from December 31, 1958, to January 4, 1959.

So, of the 110 footballers you discovered, did any also happen to play their first and last games on the same date?

 

[twarby]

anywhere list games at Etihad where the roof was open for the match?

 

[RogersResults]

anywhere list games at Etihad where the roof was open for the match?

Note the Roof condition in these match reports:

http://footystats.freeservers.com/Archive/Review12-R01.html

You'll have to make the list. (I'm not aware of it having been posted anywhere.)

Contact footysts@bigpond.net.au about how to access past match report archives.

Let all here know if you think you have discovered anything significant as a result.

 

[UpForGrabs]

With Mick Malthouse now the coach of Carlton, he's a Premiership-winning coach (1992, 94, 2010) who's now coaching a Premiership Captain (Judd, 2006) at a club that neither won their flag at.

How often has that happened?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

With Mick Malthouse now the coach of Carlton, he's a Premiership-winning coach (1992, 94, 2010) who's now coaching a Premiership Captain (Judd, 2006) at a club that neither won their flag at.

How often has that happened?

Furthering on from that, when was the last time a coach of one premiership team and a player of the same team ended up at the one club but had never had a player/coach relationship prior to arriving at the club?

 

[kosifantutti]

With Mick Malthouse now the coach of Carlton, he's a Premiership-winning coach (1992, 94, 2010) who's now coaching a Premiership Captain (Judd, 2006) at a club that neither won their flag at.

How often has that happened?

Jezza coached himself at St Kilda he also coached Graeme Bond

 

[UpForGrabs]

Jezza coached himself at St Kilda he also coached Graeme Bond

Bond wasn't a premiership captain though, was he? I thought Roger Dean was the Tigers' captain back then?

 

[kosifantutti]

Bond wasn't a premiership captain though, was he? I thought Roger Dean was the Tigers' captain back then?

Oops. Missed the captain bit.

 

[Keystone agony]

Whos the best mathematician stats man on this forum that i can get in touch with to help me out. Just need a mathematical mind to back up an idea i have.

Would be appreciated cheers

 

[Ron The Bear]

With Mick Malthouse now the coach of Carlton, he's a Premiership-winning coach (1992, 94, 2010) who's now coaching a Premiership Captain (Judd, 2006) at a club that neither won their flag at.

How often has that happened?

After both won a flag:
Charlie Ricketts (coach South Melbourne 1909) coached Dave Smith (captain Essendon 1911) at Richmond in 1914 (1 game)

Prior to either winning a flag:
"Checker" Hughes (coach Melbourne 1939-41, 1948) coached Jack Bisset (captain South Melbourne 1933) at Richmond 1928 & 1931 (38 games)

Mixture:
Malcolm Blight (coach Adelaide 1997-98) coached Barry Hall (captain Sydney 2005 GF day) at St.Kilda in 2001 (13 games)

 

[Ron The Bear]

Furthering on from that, when was the last time a coach of one premiership team and a player of the same team ended up at the one club but had never had a player/coach relationship prior to arriving at the club?

Leigh Matthews (coach Collingwood 1986-1995, flag 1990)
Mal Michael (player Collingwood 1997-2000)

Matthews coached Michael at Brisbane in 140 games 2001-2006.

 

[slickmick]

Tom Hawkins played 1 game for South Melbourne in 1904.

"South Melbourne gave a trial to a smart little fellow named Hawking (sic), from Kyabrum, who was sent roving. In strange company he settled down to work at once, showed none of the diffidence characteristic of the country player, and did really well."

Argus 1 August 1904

"Did really well" And didn't get another gig.Bit stiff???

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Leigh Matthews (coach Collingwood 1986-1995, flag 1990)
Mal Michael (player Collingwood 1997-2000)

Matthews coached Michael at Brisbane in 140 games 2001-2006.

Bloody hell you're good Ron.

It's like shelling peas.

Thanks for that.

 

[Lensen]

Don't need anyone to trawl though stuff manually, but if those with databases can answer this question fairly easily it would be appreciated:

Can you get me a list of the last few years (up to 5 if possible) where players who have been the highest goalkicker in a game (or equal highest) but hadn't kicked 2+ goals in an individual game in their previous 12 games?

An example being Will Hoskin-Elliott in round 20 2012, who kicked 5 and was the highest goalscorer vs Gold Coast but hadn't kicked 2+ goals prior

cheers

 

[Ron The Bear]

Whos the best mathematician stats man on this forum that i can get in touch with to help me out. Just need a mathematical mind to back up an idea i have.

Would be appreciated cheers

If you're talking calculus etc, I've forgotten it all. Not claiming to be the best, but will help if it's something within my abilities and not too time-consuming.