Steve Hocking Gone

[Ron The Bear]

I’m just glad Hocking as managed to give us those high scoring shootouts we have all been craving

How many Dusty moments?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

I’m just glad Hocking as managed to give us those high scoring shootouts we have all been craving View attachment 1174638

not just the pathetic scoring, it is dreadful to watch, it's like half the AFL have lost their skill

this is certainly Hocking's rules, but maybe also long term effects of hub life last year?

 

[desie]

It’s congestion, which no one has the guts to deal with and can only be fixed through starting positions at all stoppages, something we’ve had at centre bounces since 1974, coupled with the fact that every match in the open air after about 5pm is effectively a wet weather game due to the dew sitting on top of the turf, something that didn’t happen years ago when it was far more course and was absorbed.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Defence wins premierships; teams have pushed back because it was hard to defend the stand. Too many uncontested chains resulted in goals which drives coaches crazy.

 

[Lsta062]

I feel like I’m really close to walking away from this game because of how boring it’s become (maybe walking away is a bit too dramatic, but probably the closest I have ever been). And no, it’s not only because of how ordinary Richmond are this season. Back when Richmond used to be consistently ordinary, I’d still be entertained when teams better than us played and I’d look forward to Friday night and Saturday night footy. It was like that as recently as 2016-2018. Yes, it was already going downhill for a while (since the late 2000s/early 2010s), but it properly hit concerning levels starting from the 2019 AFL season.

Hocking’s rule changes may play a factor, but it’s not the core reason why the game is like this IMO. Ultimately, it’s on the current set of coaches and list managers. It seems that every coach and list manager bar a couple put way more effort in setting up their defensive structure over their offensive structure. They’ll even go out their way to recruit athletes with sub-par basic football skills just so that they can play a defensive role. A team’s offensive structure does rely on athleticism to an extent, but it is more reliant on skills than a team’s defensive structure IMO.

Because of this happening at almost every club, we now see multiple teams competition-wide who do basic skill errors in and around their forward 50. Once the running and pressuring is done by these ‘athletes’ and it is time for them to display their actual football skills, you will see some horrendous decision-making and skill execution.

Therefore, I think it’s a mix of preferring athletic players over skilled players when managing lists and the coaches seemingly being terrified of conceding that has led the game down this pathway. I didn’t like Hocking’s rule changes for the most part, but I think the game was heading this way with or without him. So after giving it a thought, I don’t think he’s to blame for the changes. It’s just that many of his rule changes didn’t stop or fix the problem in the end.

 

[tiger_tough]

Without knowing the stoppage numbers, d50-i50 transition rate, inside 50s, tackle numbers etc etc for the season up to right now - the game looks to the naked eye to be right back where we started. Certainly in the last month it's been a woeful product overall.

The biggest impact it's having at the moment is the statue man on the mark within scoring range and that's a shocking look.

Would they ever have to guts to remove the rule before next season?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

I feel like I’m really close to walking away from this game because of how boring it’s become (maybe walking away is a bit too dramatic, but probably the closest I have ever been). And no, it’s not only because of how ordinary Richmond are this season. Back when Richmond used to be consistently ordinary, I’d still be entertained when teams better than us played and I’d look forward to Friday night and Saturday night footy. It was like that as recently as 2016-2018. Yes, it was already going downhill for a while (since the late 2000s/early 2010s), but it properly hit concerning levels starting from the 2019 AFL season.

Hocking’s rule changes may play a factor, but it’s not the core reason why the game is like this IMO. Ultimately, it’s on the current set of coaches and list managers. It seems that every coach and list manager bar a couple put way more effort in setting up their defensive structure over their offensive structure. They’ll even go out their way to recruit athletes with sub-par basic football skills just so that they can play a defensive role. A team’s offensive structure does rely on athleticism to an extent, but it is more reliant on skills than a team’s defensive structure IMO.

Because of this happening at almost every club, we now see multiple teams competition-wide who do basic skill errors in and around their forward 50. Once the running and pressuring is done by these ‘athletes’ and it is time for them to display their actual football skills, you will see some horrendous decision-making and skill execution.

Therefore, I think it’s a mix of preferring athletic players over skilled players when managing lists and the coaches seemingly being terrified of conceding that has led the game down this pathway. I didn’t like Hocking’s rule changes for the most part, but I think the game was heading this way with or without him. So after giving it a thought, I don’t think he’s to blame for the changes. It’s just that many of his rule changes didn’t stop or fix the problem in the end.

defence is more sophisticated, sure

but Hocking has ensured that turnovers up the ground are less likely now. (Richmond's former one wood)

So now turnover happens only deep in defence, then you have to go all the way up the field to score, which is super hard.

This is obvious, the ball just pings back and forth between 50 metre lines, and they sit there in the AFL media applauding it...baffling.

 

[Lsta062]

defence is more sophisticated, sure

but Hocking has ensured that turnovers up the ground are less likely now. (Richmond's former one wood)

So now turnover happens only deep in defence, then you have to go all the way up the field to score, which is super hard.

This is obvious, the ball just pings back and forth between 50 metre lines, and they sit there in the AFL media applauding it...baffling.

Yeah I have been critical of the media about this whole situation. They are ready to rip clubs when they are underperforming but hardly said anything about Hocking’s tenure in his role. His changes did not result in what was promised - significant improvement in scoring and the game opening up. That’s underperforming to me.

However, the coaches really need to look at themselves as well to see what they are doing to the game as well. It’s just not entertaining.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I feel like I’m really close to walking away from this game because of how boring it’s become (maybe walking away is a bit too dramatic, but probably the closest I have ever been). And no, it’s not only because of how ordinary Richmond are this season. Back when Richmond used to be consistently ordinary, I’d still be entertained when teams better than us played and I’d look forward to Friday night and Saturday night footy. It was like that as recently as 2016-2018. Yes, it was already going downhill for a while (since the late 2000s/early 2010s), but it properly hit concerning levels starting from the 2019 AFL season.

Hocking’s rule changes may play a factor, but it’s not the core reason why the game is like this IMO. Ultimately, it’s on the current set of coaches and list managers. It seems that every coach and list manager bar a couple put way more effort in setting up their defensive structure over their offensive structure. They’ll even go out their way to recruit athletes with sub-par basic football skills just so that they can play a defensive role. A team’s offensive structure does rely on athleticism to an extent, but it is more reliant on skills than a team’s defensive structure IMO.

Because of this happening at almost every club, we now see multiple teams competition-wide who do basic skill errors in and around their forward 50. Once the running and pressuring is done by these ‘athletes’ and it is time for them to display their actual football skills, you will see some horrendous decision-making and skill execution.

Therefore, I think it’s a mix of preferring athletic players over skilled players when managing lists and the coaches seemingly being terrified of conceding that has led the game down this pathway. I didn’t like Hocking’s rule changes for the most part, but I think the game was heading this way with or without him. So after giving it a thought, I don’t think he’s to blame for the changes. It’s just that many of his rule changes didn’t stop or fix the problem in the end.

It's funny cause I also feel the same way as well with how boring it has become, even if my team is doing so well right now for a long time, I understand now why people say when you see you team win the premiership for the first time, footy will never be the same again (born in 2001 so I was only young when we won those 3 flags). Like at least during the 00s/10s period for example as a kid, I could just chuck on the t.v and watch a very entertaining game of footy no matter who is playing compared to now with freakish goals, amazing marks, excellent highlights, etc. Now though, the sport feels like a complete mess of a game with those freakish goals being replaced with finding players better out for goal, amazing marks being replaced with free kicks and excellent highlights being replaced with constant tackling/possession of the ball now 99% of the time. It just hasn't been fun watching it as much these days and to be completely honest, if the quarter length gets reduced next year or whenever, I probably be one foot out of the door of watching AFL for good full-time cause the AFL & the clubs don't really care about purpose of the game anymore, instead wanting to earn as much financial revenue as possible from the sport.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Without knowing the stoppage numbers, d50-i50 transition rate, inside 50s, tackle numbers etc etc for the season up to right now - the game looks to the naked eye to be right back where we started.

stoppages down
tackles down
marks up
kicks same
handballs down slightly, downward trend
free kicks same

Numbers trending towards late 2000's, lots of uncontested marks & low tackles. But 4-5 goals fewer per match despite more kicks.

 

[footyfan1978]

It’s congestion, which no one has the guts to deal with and can only be fixed through starting positions at all stoppages, something we’ve had at centre bounces since 1974, coupled with the fact that every match in the open air after about 5pm is effectively a wet weather game due to the dew sitting on top of the turf, something that didn’t happen years ago when it was far more course and was absorbed.

We already have a line in centre circle. All they need to do is follow the lead of your 1974 mention and make the line go all the way to the boundary line at both wings and then say when the is a stoppage inside any 50 metre arc, you remove the coaching grid lock tactic of no forward line down other end. Like the centre bounce stretched out players out of clogging up the centre bounce we force both teams to stretch out their 18 players to main length of field. So if any stoppage inside 50 metre arcs both teams and coaches know they cannot just have all 36 players virtually in one half of field clogging it up. This is where use the big centre line from boundary to boundary. At that point each team has to have maybe 3 or 4 players on their team in other beyond that line and also 3 or those 4 be in the 50 metre arc down other end. Then if team defending get ball out from stoppage then there is at least a forward line down other end of virtually full forward and both pockets ready to lead into space. Now obviously this also encourages the coaches to not want so much space for them to lead into so it encourage coaches to all put more players towards other end. Effectively stretching out the field. When there is stoppage between the arcs their no need to have starting position restrictions imo as you can see at ground both teams tend to have players already down either end. It only when ball in the forward line stoppage at either end does the congestion become extreme issue as often you find the 36 players in one part of field and whole forward line at other end with nobody. Most of rules Hocking brought in have not even directly addressed congestion. He not had balls to just tell coaches, this is what we doing and you need to adjust.

 

[Sttew]

Whilst overall you are right about the congestion, dew etc and Hocking not having the guts to really deal with the congestion, your solution of starting position at all stoppages is not really in line with what the game meant to be about. Yes, positionally play is clearly is better spectacle and test of skill of players v players but centre square thing , that before my time just had lines on field to restrict what you could do at centre bounce. I do not agree with just saying starting positions at every stoppage. The problem of congestion is mainly about the ball at either end, when the defending team basically take away a forward line and all 18 players part of team defence formation from virtually centre to where the ball is and 90 metres is virtually no one. It becomes gird lock and congestion is the norm. Even Hocking himself identified he needed to stretch the players out but never had guts to do anything but tinker with things not directly stopping it.

We already have a line in centre circle. All they need to do is follow the lead of your 1974 mention and make the line go all the way to the boundary line at both wings and then say when the is a stoppage inside any 50 metre arc, you remove the coaching grid lock tactic of no forward line down other end. Like the centre bounce stretched out players out of clogging up the centre bounce we force both teams to stretch out their 18 players to main length of field. So if any stoppage inside 50 metre arcs both teams and coaches know they cannot just have all 36 players virtually in one half of field clogging it up. This is where use the big centre line from boundary to boundary. At that point each team has to have maybe 3 or 4 players on their team in other beyond that line and also 3 or those 4 be in the 50 metre arc down other end. Then if team defending get ball out from stoppage then there is at least a forward line down other end of virtually full forward and both pockets ready to lead into space. Now obviously this also encourages the coaches to not want so much space for them to lead into so it encourage coaches to all put more players towards other end. Effectively stretching out the field. When there is stoppage between the arcs their no need to have starting position restrictions imo as you can see at ground both teams tend to have players already down either end. It only when ball in the forward line stoppage at either end does the congestion become extreme isssue as often you find the 36 players in one part of field and whole forward line at other end with nobody. Most of rules Hocking brought in have not even directly addressed congestion. He not had balls to just tell coaches, this is what we doing and you need to adjust. In fact he even pandered to them in pre-season giving them effectively a 5th interchange which often just used to spread out the rotations for their 36 players to run up and down field as much as possible.

The problem is Hocking was tip toeing about fixing up the mess the coaches have made of spectacle of game and hinted over time he may change things but bit by bit as did not have balls to really attack congestion at the root cause. Now he has half baked change going on, that he not even going to follow through with his own plans as he leaving. The worry is next guy that takes his job, does not address this half baked change and probably adds only more confusion to game by having another approach again but not undoing any mess made in last 25 years. Which is how we got in the mess by many different people making different changes for their narrow view at that point in time and then next guy not undoing that but just adding more changes again to the mess.
Might be straw that broke camels back to my membership. If game not as good to watch as I paid to go watch all these seasons it going to get to point where I lose confidence the AFL ever going to fix their mess and just stopping paying and going. For me it used to be clearly the best sport in world to watch. It still has some great moments but as far as minute to minute plays, the game now has much bigger chunks of game just dealing with congestion and tackle numbers and silly things like scoring reviews and nominating rucks taking up time. I never joined to be a member to waste time on that. I paid to become a member to watch genuine minute to minute contests of players contesting ball not in congested situations most of time but openly competing against a direct opponent on pure skill and sometimes their a small pack of players competing but not 36 in one small part of field and just a cluster fu** where skill is secondary to just clog up space and tackle. Ball finally gets out in open and nobody down other end to kick to and have farce of guy with ball delaying moving on until players run up more to other forward line. That sh*t to watch and happens way too often. If it still the norm next year this probably last 12 months I am paying with hope it is addressed.

Too long a post and not enough paragraphs

 

[footyfan1978]

Too long a post and not enough paragraphs

True..lol.. Sorry, too busy rambling. May edit later if come back after watching UFC so it more readable.