Suicide

[skilts]

Skilts is just pointing out the flaw in the logic , aint a big believer in jung and freud

Blackcat, master of the understatement. (Note: No verb.)

Do you need to the dead to tell you that dieing is a bad experience?

You can certainly ask those who at some stage believed death was the only answer and survived how the experience was for them.

I think you are now deliberately missing the point. Either that, or you've gone rapidly downhill. Death could easily be a magnificent release, or more likely, absolutely nothing, which could be a release in itself. There's not much we have access to from either outcome, even if you might like to think there is. It was you who said that suicide is tragic for those who have died. Are you still sure about this? If so, what is your source?

 

[blackcat]

Do you need to the dead to tell you that dieing is a bad experience?

You can certainly ask those who at some stage believed death was the only answer and survived how the experience was for them.

it might be argued by our esteemed colleague, it is not an experience, nor, if it were, it could be categorised in such binary good v bad. but goodluck trying

With whom among the dead have you spoken, allowing you to come to the conclusion that the experience was "absolutely tragic for those who have died"?

that dude wif stigmata

 

[skilts]

it might be argued by our esteemed colleague, it is not an experience, nor, if it were, it could be categorised in such binary good v bad. but goodluck trying

An experience surely depends on at least a moment of reflection, I would have thought. As far as we know, the dead have no such advantage. I'm open to being convinced about the effects on a person of their own death, postmortem.

 

[IceNine]

but not a regimen for long term depressives, psychoanalysis/psychotherapthy, CBT and pharmaceuticals, then again, i am a layperson

No it isn't a replacement for pharmaco/psychotherapy, generally only used in serious cases not responsive to other treatments. And preggo women.

 

[sabre_ac]

I think you are now deliberately missing the point. Either that, or you've gone rapidly downhill. Death could easily be a magnificent release, or more likely, absolutely nothing, which could be a release in itself. There's not much we have access to from the either outcome, even if you might like to think there is. It was you who said that suicide is tragic for those who have died. Are you still sure about this? If so, what is your source?

Your not really making a point.

Our discussion here reminds me of the great man Louis CK..Skip to 1 min 18 seconds



However I will pose a question for you

Do you apply these questions to accidental unforeseen deaths? Specifically that of Children who were seeking no relief ?

 

[skilts]

that dude wif stigmata

John Lennon - "I got blisters on my fingers"?

 

[nicky]

You guys really are pedantic w***ers.

He was saying that it's tragic from an outside pov, not from the pov of a dead person. Not even saying i agree with him but it's blatantly obvious what he meant.

 

[skilts]

Your not really making a point.

Our discussion here reminds me of the great man Louis CK..Skip to 1 min 18 seconds



However I will pose a question for you

Do you apply these questions to accidental unforeseen deaths? Specifically that of Children who were seeking no relief ?

There's an easy way around this, just explain how you know what the experience of death was for those who are no longer alive. I never apply any questions to deaths, accidental or otherwise. I find it a futile exercise. The answers seem to get caught up in some sort of maze, and never arrive.

 

[sabre_ac]

There's an easy way around this, just explain how you know the what the experience of death is for those who are no longer alive. I never apply any questions to deaths, accidental or otherwise. I find it a futile exercise. The answers seem to get caught up in some sort of maze, and never arrive.

Clearly there is no answer to your question, however there is an answer to "what does dieing feel like" or "what does it feel like to watch someone die". What does it feel like to be actually dead? There is no answer.

What is your opinion on suicide? Do you have one or should I revert back to Louis.

 

[skilts]

You guys really are pedantic Moos.

He was saying that it's tragic from an outside pov, not from the pov of a dead person. Not even saying i agree with him but it's blatantly obvious what he meant.

Maybe he could have explained this?

 

[Caesar]

You guys really are pedantic Moos.

He was saying that it's tragic from an outside pov, not from the pov of a dead person. Not even saying i agree with him but it's blatantly obvious what he meant.

I think the distinction is more than pedantic. The language we use is often revealing. We have a tendency to project our own feelings onto situations. I see something as tragic, therefore it is tragic.

It's important to step back and remember that our perceptions are not always the most important ones in any given situation.

 

[skilts]

Clearly there is no answer to your question, however there is an answer to "what does dieing feel like" or "what does it feel like to watch someone die". What does it feel like to be actually dead? There is no answer.

What is your opinion on suicide?

An answer available to all for the only important question in life. To continue to live is another answer.

 

[sabre_ac]

You guys really are pedantic Moos.

He was saying that it's tragic from an outside pov, not from the pov of a dead person. Not even saying i agree with him but it's blatantly obvious what he meant.

Guys? I presumed it was the same poster under different alias's. My bad

I've had an internet connection long enough to know that the discussion I have found myself in serves no real purpose other than amusement.

 

[sabre_ac]

I think the distinction is more than pedantic. The language we use is often revealing. We have a tendency to project our own feelings onto situations. I see something as tragic, therefore it is tragic.

Valid point and appropriate in everything we do. Our opinions are not controlled by logic, they are controlled by emotions.

It's important to step back and remember that our perceptions are not always the most important ones in any given situation.

Agreed and hard to do based on my point above.

 

[skilts]

Valid point and appropriate in everything we do. Our opinions are not controlled by logic, they are controlled by emotions.


Agreed and hard to do based on my point above.

All my fault, in a way. I was having a sly dig at you sabre, with no malice. And then it developed into this. Sorry.

 

[blackcat]

An answer available to all for the only important question in life. To continue to live is another answer.

have i used this quote in this thread before, i believe i have. its camus

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy.

 

[skilts]

have i used this quote in this thread before, i believe i have. its camus

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy.

Bertie nailed it. As one should, in my post, I only stole from the very best.

 

[Rioli magic]

My best mate committed suicide 3 months ago. It's incredibly sad and I didn't know he was at that level of unhappiness, no one did. He left behind a wife, 2 kids under 5, and he didn't leave a note. There are so many unanswered questions that we'll never know.

He did it at home and his poor wife found him. It could have been the kids who found him who he absolutely adored, which shows the mental state one gets to, so much pain that they can only think of stopping it and not about anyone else at that stage. They're some heavy scars she has to live with.

I don't blame him, it's an illness like anorexia that drives peoples behaviour, but it wasn't the right answer. We found out later that he'd stopped taking his medication. It's tough, his kids cry for him and will barely remember him if at all as they grow up. They'll never have a dad and will never know why he did it. His family have got an incredibly tough road ahead of them because of what's happened.

He kept it all to himself and never told anyone he was suicidal. I knew him for 27 years and had no idea, everyday I just wish he had of said something, anything to anyone about how he was feeling. It's so sad to know he hated his life that much and just battled it himself. I've got no idea how long he had been that unhappy, I didn't really know him and I'm left questioning everything we did together.

I guess all I'm trying to say is, there's help out there and I strongly encourage anyone with issues to seek out that help. If you've been prescribed medication take it or at least talk to a professional about it if you can't. Tell someone how you're feeling, it doesn't have to be someone you know, ring lifeline or talk to a psychologist on the other side of town, just talk about it to someone. Suicide absolutely shatters the lives of loved ones left behind and it's not the answer.

 

[rayven]

I know it's slack and probably compounds the issue but I've always viewed suicide as weakness of character, Cowardly.

Depends on why its being done.

They say king hits behind the play are cowardly, but not if its against someone who did it first. They speeding on the highway is wrong, but not if your wife is about to give birth in the back seat.They say stealing is wrong,but from a drug dealer?

We don't know whats on the other side, it could be worse than here. Takes guts to risk that.Lots of people books, movies and religion try and address whats on the other side. Very few actually reckon its a nice peaceful place.They mostly say there's standards that you have to meet, if you want a nice place. Fair to say most suicides wouldn't make those standards..

So why would someone want to go there? Because this one couldn't possibly be more internally destructive?

Nicky; from the way your posts read, you can sense that there has a been a release.Thank you for sharing.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Depends on why its being done.

They say king hits behind the play are cowardly, but not if its against someone who did it first. They speeding on the highway is wrong, but not if your wife is about to give birth in the back seat.They say stealing is wrong,but from a drug dealer?

We don't know whats on the other side, it could be worse than here. Takes guts to risk that.Lots of people books, movies and religion try and address whats on the other side. Very few actually reckon its a nice peaceful place.They mostly say there's standards that you have to meet, if you want a nice place. Fair to say most suicides wouldn't make those standards..

So why would someone want to go there? Because this one couldn't possibly be more internally destructive?

Nicky; from the way your posts read, you can sense that there has a been a release.Thank you for sharing.

I separate self sacrifice from suicide and yes in some cases suicide itself is a better option (like that chick in million dollar baby) but the majority? It's just weakness IMO.

I don't get this "depression" rubbish sportsmen and uni students blabbing on about it being a disease or some rich guy who's lost his cash.

Millions of people face greater hardship every ****ing day then any of those people ever will in their entire lives.

Now I'm sure depression is a very real thing, but given the amount of people claiming depression after pathetic little things go wrong makes me feel like its just an excuse for the most part.

 

[rayven]

Now I'm sure depression is a very real thing, but given the amount of people claiming depression after pathetic little things go wrong makes me feel like its just an excuse for the most part.

When you see it (depression), there is no mistaking it. It is a horrible horrible thing that blunts everything about the person. They won't let any one in, that is a very ballsy intuitive and unselfish part of them, not wanting others to experience there pain.The only people that get near are the ones that know they need, for something.

It is a natural defensive mechanism that is switched on because somewhere is overloaded, can't handle anymore. like a clutch in a wind turbine regulating the speed the blades circulate.

Thus you would be right in a lot of cases..

 

[nicky]

Sydney bloods there's a difference between situational depression ("claiming depression over "pathetic" little things" as you put it) and clinical depression.

 

[Run n Spread]

When you see it (depression), there is no mistaking it. It is a horrible horrible thing that blunts everything about the person. They won't let any one in, that is a very ballsy intuitive and unselfish part of them, not wanting others to experience there pain.The only people that get near are the ones that know they need, for something.

It is a natural defensive mechanism that is switched on because somewhere is overloaded, can't handle anymore. like a clutch in a wind turbine regulating the speed the blades circulate.

Thus you would be right in a lot of cases..

Why would they? Not popular to say but situations like these are perhaps years and even decades in the making. People are only human and will lose patience with someone who doesn't have their sh*& together after a decade or so of "whinging." Besides everyone has their own problems to deal with and the potential of losing patience and getting angry makes for a combustible situation.

Also advising everyone to go to a GP who will doll out the medication as way to shut them up and get them back to well hasn't done the trick. There is a very real need for professional assistance and a health specialisation along these areas.

Feel for Nicky and Rioli Magic but doubt if you really could've done anything.

 

[_Christoh_]

I separate self sacrifice from suicide and yes in some cases suicide itself is a better option (like that chick in million dollar baby) but the majority? It's just weakness IMO.

Its not weakness you fool its an inability to cope. Its an inability to find a way out from how they are feeling. Its having a range of problems that seem unmanageable. Its trying everything they can muster to feel better and not being able to. It can be guilt that is untolerable, it can be just having a shit life from day one. I really wish people didn't commit suicide but those who do are anything but weak, do you think its easy to kill yourself?? Ask yourself that.

I don't get this "depression" rubbish sportsmen and uni students blabbing on about it being a disease or some rich guy who's lost his cash.

On the outside to others some people seem like they have the world at their feet or they have a grasp on life but sometimes inside they believe they are a complete failure or loser, their self perception is skewed. The majority of the time there is a physical reason within the brain responsible for this, sometimes its self esteem, sometimes its underlying issues that stem from problems in development from a child to an adult, sometimes it comes from abusive relationships from parents, siblings, family, friends or strangers.

Millions of people face greater hardship every ******* day then any of those people ever will in their entire lives.

Doesn't mean what they are experiencing is any less real and in fact makes them feel even worse for not appreciating that they materially have it better than millions of others. Some people dont measure their worth based on the things they own or how big their bank account is or what car they drive. Some people are emotionally based and when things go wrong their emotions start to dictate their thinking.

Now I'm sure depression is a very real thing, but given the amount of people claiming depression after pathetic little things go wrong makes me feel like its just an excuse for the most part.

That's situational depression, you need to also factor in that our society says that if you make a mistake or do wrong by others you should feel bad and guilty about it. Situational depression can be worked through and isn't long term but is just as real as any other type of depression.

People who suffer depression find no enjoyment in life, have low opinions of themselves and sometimes have had so many failures or bad experiences in life that they simply don't have the will to continue. Surprisingly they think that no one could possibly understand how they feel or are too embarrassed to seek help on their issues as people like you would find it trivial. The worst thing you can do to someone who is feeling down or depressed is judge them. The best thing you can do is try and understand them. They dont need people to fix them they just need to know that someone cares enough to listen and support them through what they are having trouble dealing with.

Don't judge
UNDERSTAND!!

 

[rayven]

I find it repulsive that people say don't judge, but they do that very thing themselves. We know there's stigma to depression, so then why do we call the drugs currently in flavor anti depressants? Negative label right there.

When the anti terrorism squad shut down your street, you know there's no cat stuck up a tree.