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Suicide

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vealesy said:
Ive taken all those things.

The lab rat comment has more to do with untested drugs being "approved" and released on the populace.
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Well you've certainly destroyed any little credibility you had left with that last statement (not that you hadn't already). Anti-Depressants have been around and prescribed since the early 1970s. I think 40 odd years of clinical trials and testing makes the medication 'approved' as it has been successfully administered to millions around the world.

I'm not going to even bother responding to your other comment 'there's no such things as side effects' because all you've done is demonstrate you have no idea what your talking about.

Do you even know what serotonin is? Wait, don't even respond to that as I'm being rhetorical.
 
I certainly do.

My opinions seem ignorant because all ive ever experienced from this industry is mistakes and guesswork. Seeds were planted for cynicism at a young age.

I dont disagree with the fundamentals, its the administration that is rubbish.

I also dont give a shit how i appear to you. I dont need credibility to have experience and observation.
 

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I agree with you on the statement that medical practitioners have often stuffed up and prescribed incorrectly or misdiagnosed someone's condition, but that's not a fault of the medication itself, doctors have misdiagnosed things like cancer for something else.

I'm sorry to hear your experience hasn't been a good one, but that doesn't others haven't had success. I was tried on an anti-depressant earlier this year that wasn't right for me, but now I'm on a new one that is working. What works for one person may not work for another, body chemistry is a complicated thing to balance and unfortunately there is some trial and error involved.

Some people for instance can't take penicillin, codeine or morphine, whereas I have no problems with any of them.

So in addition to getting the right medication, it's also just as important to find the right doctor. I've had ordinary counsellors but also had very good ones.

Anyway I respect you don't like or believe in anti-depressant, but you should respect differing views where people have tried and been successful on them. Also, I don't intend to be on them forever, I'm hoping one day I won't need them and can get back to where I was last year.

I realise they are only a bandaid solution, and fixing the root cause through counseling and self-improvement is the next step forward for me. The medication in the mean time helps me get up and motivated in the morning so I can address my problems without feeling goddamn awful every day.
 
brett15 said:
I agree with you on the statement that medical practitioners have often stuffed up and prescribed incorrectly or misdiagnosed someone's condition, but that's not a fault of the medication itself, doctors have misdiagnosed things like cancer for something else.

I'm sorry to hear your experience hasn't been a good one, but that doesn't others haven't had success. I was tried on an anti-depressant earlier this year that wasn't right for me, but now I'm on a new one that is working. What works for one person may not work for another, body chemistry is a complicated thing to balance and unfortunately there is some trial and error involved.

Some people for instance can't take penicillin, codeine or morphine, whereas I have no problems with any of them.

So in addition to getting the right medication, it's also just as important to find the right doctor. I've had ordinary counsellors but also had very good ones.

Anyway I respect you don't like or believe in anti-depressant, but you should respect differing views where people have tried and been successful on them. Also, I don't intend to be on them forever, I'm hoping one day I won't need them and can get back to where I was last year.

I realise they are only a bandaid solution, and fixing the root cause through counseling and self-improvement is the next step forward for me. The medication in the mean time helps me get up and motivated in the morning so I can address my problems without feeling goddamn awful every day.
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Great post mate, i agree with a lot of that.

I dont like the trial and error part (Lab rat / experiment) and i dont expect people to agree with that. I probably sound like some religious nut or scientologist that rejects medical science. I dont and im not.

Good to see them actually help someone i guess, im sure theres many, ive seen them make lots of people react well in the short term, but then become a wreck when off them.

Id heavily recommend diet/exercise/social improvements, then proper chemical testing and psychoanalysis be done before popping a magic pill.
 
My sisters best mate killed herself when she was 15, was shit for everyone.

My dad is a truck driver and he had someone jump infront of his truck. Didn't kill him just really ****ed him up. You would be surprised how often people jump infront of trucks/buses. These people I don't have sympathy for as they can really mentally wreck a random persons life. I''d hate to have a dead person on my windshield.

In school I was surprised to learn that when you give someone anti-depressants you have to look out for them even more. Most likley they will go from the "its not even worth killing myself" to being slightly less depressed and thinking "now I can kill myself'.. If you know what I mean.

Either way, suicide is shit.
 
cross#4 said:
In school I was surprised to learn that when you give someone anti-depressants you have to look out for them even more. Most likley they will go from the "its not even worth killing myself" to being slightly less depressed and thinking "now I can kill myself'.. If you know what I mean.
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Exactly. It's important to keep a very close eye on those that seem down whilst on anti-depressants. How do I know this? I myself take a high dose daily. Even though they don't occur often, those days when you're in a low mood are just awful. You feel incapable, like you just want to cry and not face the world. It's bloody horrible to be honest.
 
Suicide is immense relief for the person who has died. Provided it's not just a spirit of the moment mad thing, the person is so constantly miserable that they just don't want to live in the world any more. It is the end of their pain, they are simply happier not living. In this warped sense it can be seen in a slightly positive light. Of course that discounts the pain for everyone else around them, which is significant. But for the individual it is a horrible yet effective way out of their lives. This perspective really struck me when I read the Kurt Cobain biography.
 
Ed_Gein said:
Thisssssss, might have been worth a thread on its on. But i'll post it in here instead....... The effects of bullying.



Although she did kind of sleep with a guy when she knew he had a gf already. I guess in some ways she should take responsibility for that.....
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Thats horrible poor girl....can only hope karma bites a few people on the arse
 
I've never understood why it is a requirement to be alive, you can chose everything in your life but don't have the right to end it if you see fit. It's like playing a video game you can't quit if you get bored.
 

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I recently finished a unit of my diploma on suicide risk assessment which was daunting when I started it. On completion I felt much better about offering assistance to someone who is suicidal.

The thing that surprised me the most was how to the point we were told to be with the subject. There are a range of risk factors that are causal factors and behaviors which are indicators. If I find that a client has a number of causal factors and exhibits a few indicators then I ask them straight up 'are you suicidal?' If they say no I still conduct a risk assessment that ask a whole bunch of questions not related to suicide directly at first but then explores their thoughts on suicide toward the end.

If they say yes and many who are will as they dont want to bring the subject up, I have a professional obligation to contact a crisis assessment unit within the health department here in SA as a kind of second opinion. They conduct a risk assessment to rate the client from low to high risk.

Then depending on their risk there are another whole bunch of protocols that need to followed that all work towards offering a framework for the client to cope or get immediate assistance.
 
christoh said:
I recently finished a unit of my diploma on suicide risk assessment which was daunting when I started it. On completion I felt much better about offering assistance to someone who is suicidal.

The thing that surprised me the most was how to the point we were told to be with the subject. There are a range of risk factors that are causal factors and behaviors which are indicators. If I find that a client has a number of causal factors and exhibits a few indicators then I ask them straight up 'are you suicidal?' If they say no I still conduct a risk assessment that ask a whole bunch of questions not related to suicide directly at first but then explores their thoughts on suicide toward the end.

If they say yes and many who are will as they dont want to bring the subject up, I have a professional obligation to contact a crisis assessment unit within the health department here in SA as a kind of second opinion. They conduct a risk assessment to rate the client from low to high risk.

Then depending on their risk there are another whole bunch of protocols that need to followed that all work towards offering a framework for the client to cope or get immediate assistance.
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Out of interest what are these risk/casual factors?

I used to know a girl who cut herself, but not for suicide, but so people could attend to her, she would latch on to anyone who got near. I felt sorry for her at the start but after a while, I realized the more I tried to help, the less I actually helped. What do you do in that deal. My logic would be to tell the truth, yeah you are fat, do something about it if your unhappy, It would work for me, but probably not in this situation. So you help her, she just feeds off you, you ignore her, she feels alone, you tell the truth, you may tip her over. So what would be best?
 
RobbieGray17 said:
Out of interest what are these risk/casual factors?

I used to know a girl who cut herself, but not for suicide, but so people could attend to her, she would latch on to anyone who got near. I felt sorry for her at the start but after a while, I realized the more I tried to help, the less I actually helped. What do you do in that deal. My logic would be to tell the truth, yeah you are fat, do something about it if your unhappy, It would work for me, but probably not in this situation. So you help her, she just feeds off you, you ignore her, she feels alone, you tell the truth, you may tip her over. So what would be best?
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non-Munchausen munchausen. I think alot of youth, parculiarly young females, cut themselves to feel some physical response, because they are emotionally dulled, through whatever trauma in their life. An emotional firebreak stopped them feeling, and they need to create a physical pain, which may trigger an emotional response, not related to the physical. It was just a catalyst.

Or, they could be goth. /sarcasm.

from a layperson non-psych major :p
 
LukasTheGreat said:
I've never understood why it is a requirement to be alive, you can chose everything in your life but don't have the right to end it if you see fit. It's like playing a video game you can't quit if you get bored.
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its a compact you make with god, when he decides your seed and mom's egg fuse the chromosomes. so he decides when it is to take time off this mortal coil
 
RobbieGray17 said:
Out of interest what are these risk/casual factors?

I used to know a girl who cut herself, but not for suicide, but so people could attend to her, she would latch on to anyone who got near. I felt sorry for her at the start but after a while, I realized the more I tried to help, the less I actually helped. What do you do in that deal. My logic would be to tell the truth, yeah you are fat, do something about it if your unhappy, It would work for me, but probably not in this situation. So you help her, she just feeds off you, you ignore her, she feels alone, you tell the truth, you may tip her over. So what would be best?
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Causal factors are things like a death of a family/friend, a relative or friend who has committed suicide, a relationship break up, bad finances, bullying, past history of being abused, poor social network or is isolated from loved ones or society in general and homelessness. Causal factors are generally things that have happened to someone that is of concern.
Indicators are generally behavior based. Things like substance abuse or increased substance use, risky behaviors, self harm, giving possession away, saying things that are off the cuff but have an undertone of truth like 'I wish the world would just end' or 'No one would miss me if I was gone'.

A risk assessment straight out asks if they are suicidal, if they have a plan and a time frame, means to do it, access to weapons or drugs, mental illnesses as well as exploring protective factors (good things to live for) like children, good family and friends that can offer support. There are many other aspects but if I went into it in depth (I know it seems like I already have) I would use a whole bigfooty page.

Self harm alone doesn't indicate someone is suicidal, people who do it use it as a coping mechanism. It actually helps release their stress and pain that causes them to do it in the first place, so it isn't entirely a cry for help behavior and after doing my course I don't believe there is such a thing as a cry for help just behaviors that indicate something else going on that is unresolved.
When someone self harms the brain releases dopa-mine and serotonin or chemicals that have a similar effect on the body. It relieves their build up of stress and pain. As a result they can become addicted to doing it, similar to how a gambler becomes an addict by the rush they get when they have a win.

I would suggest your friend speaks to a professional, a counselor or psychologist. There are some great new therapies that help with self harm like pure mindfulness and awareness. Meditation really helps build a coping mechanism and helps replace the self harming behaviors. But obviously there are other factor causing her to self harm in the first place and until you can explore those she wont be able to really constructively undertake addressing her self harm.

I cant remember the statistics but I remember being blown away by how many people (mostly girls) engage in self harm.
 

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Poseidon said:
People who commit suicide have zero sympathy from me, can't handle their problems so they throw all their burden on the loved ones left behind. Rot.
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It almost takes talent to reveal such an incredible, monumental amount of ignorance in the space of one sentence. You complete, utter fool.

The only hope with things like this is one day you look back and wonder how you could possibly be so moronic. I have faith, we've all done that at some stage.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
It almost takes talent to reveal such an incredible, monumental amount of ignorance in the space of one sentence. You complete, utter fool.

The only hope with things like this is one day you look back and wonder how you could possibly be so moronic. I have faith, we've all done that at some stage.
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I was very angry when I made that post, it's ancient history man LET ME BREATHE!!!
 
Poseidon said:
People who commit suicide have zero sympathy from me, can't handle their problems so they throw all their burden on the loved ones left behind. Rot.
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That's rubbish.

a friend of mine recently committed suicide and i'm heartbroken about how much pain she was in and how long she held on for even though she was suffering so much. This life was a living hell for her and not in a "i'm depressed" kind of way. It was torture. Anyone insisting someone continue to live through that because they don't want to say goodbye or confront their own mortality is the true selfish one.
 
nicky said:
That's rubbish.

a friend of mine recently committed suicide and i'm heartbroken about how much pain she was in and how long she held on for even though she was suffering so much. This life was a living hell for her and not in a "i'm depressed" kind of way. It was torture. Anyone insisting someone continue to live through that because they don't want to say goodbye or confront their own mortality is the true selfish one.
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but, i dont think poseidon's opinion hurts if you are successful.

irony is, it actually causes more grief to the suicide's family. in terms of its logic and argument, its a fail.
 

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