Swine Flu

[campbell]

The Brisbane flu had nothing to do with any points I was making. But I guess you had to disguise your ignorance by making a completely irrelevant statement. What does more people dying from a different disease have to do with anything? Maybe you should start talking about HIV? Maybe you could talk about one of the great flu pandemics of last century? It has absolutely nothing to do with the current virus. I don't know what you're trying to prove - the viruses are real and spreading.

BTW, Dry Rot, it really doesn't matter if the virus evolves resistance to Tamiflu. The drug barely kills the virus as it is. The sensationalist media make this into a far bigger deal than it is - when I get my Nature/New Scientist updates every few days, it really is laughable to compare them to headlines in the general media.

and why do we use tamilfu in treating ALL inpatients with Swine flu IF as you say it doesnt work?

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

So what DR?

Again you confuse numbers, with theories, apply some magic dust and end up with Armageddon

That's Drot to a T

I don't know why he is so worried about the future of the Australian economy when the dreaded lurgi will get him in a matter of weeks

 

[campbell]

Which part of "barely kills" = "doesn't work" ????

It works, but its hardly a silver bullet. I would have thought that was the point. Clearly better than nothing.

IF as she says, it barely kills the swine flu virus. THEN, it would not be the current 1st line treatment for inpatients with the disease would it. WHY would a drug be used when it barely kills the virus.

No point giving a patient a drug for no reason, thats not how things are done in the frontline.

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20090707/tamiflu-resistant-swine-flu-in-us

Fukuda and Uyeki stress that there has been no change to current treatment recommendations. In the U.S., the CDC recommends:

* Tamiflu treatment for people hospitalized with swine flu.
* Tamiflu treatment for swine flu patients at risk of serious flu complications due to underlying medical conditions.
* Tamiflu treatment for swine flu patients at risk of serious flu complications because they are pregnant, under age 5, or over age 65.
* Tamiflu to prevent infection of people at risk of serious flu complications who have been exposed to someone with swine flu.

 

[BomberGal]

IF as she says, it barely kills the swine flu virus. THEN, it would not be the current 1st line treatment for inpatients with the disease would it. WHY would a drug be used when it barely kills the virus.

No point giving a patient a drug for no reason, thats not how things are done in the frontline.

Haha, ineffective drugs - haven't you ever heard of paracetamol?

Not that it's particularly relevant for the flu, but "no point giving a patient a drug for no reason" completely ignores the placebo effect.

Tamiflu may be effective but the point is it will not stop complications caused by the virus and will merely lessen its severity. Current research shows that it shortens duration of the flu by about a day. A solitary day.

All viruses will continue to evolve resistance to any drug we make - and yes, I mean all viruses, and all drugs - that's how nature works. Therefore, it makes not one iota of difference to society if it evolves resistance now - we expect that. Not only that, but since Tamiflu has such a mild effect, I really don't see that it makes much difference to a patient.

Tamiflu's mode of action is to prevent release of viral particles from an infected cell. So, unless given very early, before the virus has a chance to spread (i.e. before your OWN immune system kicks in, which in the case of the flu may well be before you are symptomatic - things like coughs and runny noses are the result of your immune system at work), the drug is basically ineffective. If not given in this initial incubation phase, the virus will spread to its target tissues and result in the symptoms of infection, with your own immune system taking over. The problem here lies in many people not even knowing they're infected until too late. Sure, give it to people with compromised immune systems, but by definition, it is almost useless once natural immunity kicks in anyway.

So from this, people recover perfectly well from the flu without antivirals, so for this kind of case there's little point in administering it at all. There are cases where it could help, but for the general population - stay home and rest. Come on, aren't you supposed to be a nurse? Tamiflu is the paracetamol of the antiviral world - why don't we look at drugs that kill serious, threatening viruses, and actually WORK, and compare them to Tamiflu, shall we?

You want to talk about giving out useless drugs "on the frontline", how about the millions of prescriptions that are given out for antibiotics when people have a viral infection? That IS giving a drug for no reason (other than to satisfy a patient), and is one of the reasons we have super-resistant classes of bacteria. You know that antibiotics cannot kill a virus. The doctor would hopefully know this too (!). Handing out Tamiflu is the very same thing. All it does is promote the evolution of the virus against the drug, rendering it basically ineffective in the end.

And also, Eagle87 is right...your bolded bit is just yet another example of your 'hey I'm a nurse therefore I know better'. No, you know about patient care. You seem to know squat about the way drugs or viruses work.

 

[Chief]

Oh, and the bolded bit just makes you look like a flog..... again.

Dump the name-calling.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

There are other alternatives to Tamiflu

The rising death toll from swine flu in India is driving some people to buy remedies made of cow-urine extract, clarified butter and herbal potions to ward off the disease, as the government restricts Tamiflu and other drugs. Since India reported its first swine flu death in the western city of Pune on Aug. 3, more than 100 people have died from the virus. The government is controlling access to Roche AG’s Tamiflu antiviral to ensure hospital supplies in case of an epidemic.

Residents have switched to traditional Ayurvedic healing, used for hundreds of years to boost immunity, as well as unproven remedies being sold to take advantage of the outbreak, doctors say. “Everybody wants to make money,” said Dr. Kalyan Banerjee, president of the Maharashtra Association for the Cultivation of Science and former director of the National Institute of Virology. “The problem is basically of regulation. There is no system. Everybody can say what they want.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=arn2dLln.SPU

 

[sen entertainment bloke]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2009/09/16/10940116-cp.html

This is bizarre.

WINNIPEG - Aboriginal leaders in Manitoba say they are horrified and want an explanation as to why some of the reserves hardest hit by swine flu in the spring have just received dozens of body bags from Health Canada.

Chiefs say the body bags - which were in a shipment of hand sanitizers and face masks - were sent to a cluster of remote northern reserves where dozens of patients were airlifted to hospital in the spring.

"If this is preparedness, they're sending the wrong message to our communities. Who would do such a thing?" Grand Chief David Harper, who represents Manitoba's northern First Nations, asked Wednesday.

"It's like sending body bags to Afghanistan for our soldiers. We've been asking for proper health institutions, proper health equipment. Instead, what do we get? Body bags. That's totally unacceptable."

Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq said at a flu briefing in Ottawa that she was disturbed when she heard body bags had been sent to some aboriginal communities.

"I have ordered my deputy minister to conduct a thorough and immediate inquiry into the situation and I will continue to work with First Nations, provinces and territories to ensure all Canadians are informed and protected against H1N1," she said.

Aglukkaq said she found out about the body bags during a conference call with aboriginal leaders, but couldn't explain why they have been sent to some reserves. "Once I have more information I can speak to that," she said. "But right now I'm asking the same questions you're asking me."

David Butler-Jones, Canada's chief public health officer, said the body bags were unnecessary. "As the minister said, it's being looked into," he said. "But it's a totally unnecessary thing."

The shipment of at least 50 bags, which some interpreted as a grim prediction from the government, further strains relations between First Nations and Ottawa.

 

[Dry Rot]

Second wave of swine flu starting in the UK

Swine flu on the rise, as 66 schools report fresh outbreaks of the virus
• 'Second wave' of infection saw 9,000 cases last week
• Vaccine still not ready to be given to victims

Owen Bowcott and Sarah Boseley
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 24 September 2009 22.23 BST

Swine flu cases in England almost doubled last week with at least 66 schools reporting outbreaks, according to the Department of Health. The increase – from 5,200 cases in the previous week to 9,000 last week – appears to be the beginning of a second wave of infections. So far there have been 82 deaths in the UK. The number of patients in hospital has also begun to climb again....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/24/swine-flu-cases-on-the-rise

Cases also are spiking up in the USA.

 

[Eagle87]

Second wave of swine flu starting in the UK

Swine flu on the rise, as 66 schools report fresh outbreaks of the virus
• 'Second wave' of infection saw 9,000 cases last week
• Vaccine still not ready to be given to victims

Owen Bowcott and Sarah Boseley
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 24 September 2009 22.23 BST

Swine flu cases in England almost doubled last week with at least 66 schools reporting outbreaks, according to the Department of Health. The increase – from 5,200 cases in the previous week to 9,000 last week – appears to be the beginning of a second wave of infections. So far there have been 82 deaths in the UK. The number of patients in hospital has also begun to climb again....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/24/swine-flu-cases-on-the-rise

Cases also are spiking up in the USA.

So as their normal flu season starts, cases of Swine flu are on the increase?

News at 11......

This has been talked about as a certainty for months. This is only an issue, only news, if the second wave is worse than the first. Which there is zero signs of as yet.

 

[Dry Rot]

So as their normal flu season starts, cases of Swine flu are on the increase?

News at 11......

This has been talked about as a certainty for months. This is only an issue, only news, if the second wave is worse than the first. Which there is zero signs of as yet.

This is way earlier than their usual flu season FWIW.

 

[medusala]

This is way earlier than their usual flu season FWIW.

Bit of an Indian summer here (after rubbish 3 months). Still in the 20s and stuff all rain lately.

Give it a few weeks.

 

[Fossie 32]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it but one of the arguments against using multi - dose vials of the vaccine is that it could spread infection from one person to the other.
Not likely that medicos are going to use the same needle and syringe for more than one person is it?

 

[Dry Rot]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it but one of the arguments against using multi - dose vials of the vaccine is that it could spread infection from one person to the other.
Not likely that medicos are going to use the same needle and syringe for more than one person is it?

Of course not.

I mean, it's not like we've had those problems in the past and therefore phased out multi-dose shots until now, have we?

Fossie, why are they doing multi-dose shots now?

 

[Fossie 32]

I guess its to save money.
I may well be wrong but am surprised that at least in relatively wealthy countries like ours that medicos would reuse needles and syringes.

 

[mantis]

Flu season is over here, so WTF are they saying they are hoping all Aussies get the vacciination now?

The manufacturerers of the Tamilflu, must be rubbiing their hands together with glee.

When you look at how many people have died in the last couple of days from natural disasters, makes you wonder why the panic of Swine Flu.

 

[Dry Rot]

I guess its to save money.
I may well be wrong but am surprised that at least in relatively wealthy countries like ours that medicos would reuse needles and syringes.

The way they are distributing the swine flu vaccine is appalling - flies in the face of best practice for about a decade.

This method has been or is being phased out in Australia - very dangerous.

Look on the bright side - at least two mutations of swine flu have been discovered. The latest is very nasty, and if it takes hold in the second wave of swine flu then who knows if the current vaccine is much use at all.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/09290901/H1N1_E627K_Netherlands.html

 

[Dry Rot]

Flu season is over here, so WTF are they saying they are hoping all Aussies get the vacciination now?

The manufacturerers of the Tamilflu, must be rubbiing their hands together with glee.

When you look at how many people have died in the last couple of days from natural disasters, makes you wonder why the panic of Swine Flu.

What's Tamiflu got to do with the vaccine?

 

[mantis]

What's Tamiflu got to do with the vaccine?

That's the drug they've been talking about for months. OH no, don't tell me they are pushing another drug as well.

Quickly rushes to buy shares in pharmaceutical companies.

 

[Dry Rot]

That's the drug they've been talking about for months. OH no, don't tell me they are pushing another drug as well.

Quickly rushes to buy shares in pharmaceutical companies.

You do know a lot about this.

 

[mantis]

You do know a lot about this.

Nope, because I'm not being dragged into this overhyped bullshit.

But carry on with your gloom & doom & making drug companies rich.

 

[campbell]

Big roll out at work tody for the vaccine, only admin seem to be getting it,
I aint getting it, since ihave gad the darn thing already.

Multi dose are used for other injections as well. Single use syrige and needles, alcowipe the vial, is all good.

but the vial has to be used once opened.so if only 2 have the injection, then the rest is thrwon away.

cheaper imo to have have single dose vials.

 

[mantis]

Seems people are worried about this vaccine, because it hasn't been tested properly before release, they are using Aussies as lab rats.

 

[dmc333]

If birds hosting flu virus are exposed to the waterborne pollutant, they might develop drug-resistant strains, chemists worry

The premier flu-fighting drug is contaminating rivers downstream of sewage-treatment facilities, researchers in Japan confirm. The source: urinary excretion by people taking oseltamivir phosphate, best known as Tamiflu.
Concerns are now building that birds, which are natural influenza carriers, are being exposed to waterborne residues of Tamiflu’s active form and might develop and spread drug-resistant strains of seasonal and avian flu

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/47971/title/Excreted_Tamiflu_found_in_rivers

 

[Atavistic]

President Barack Obama has declared swine flu a national emergency

http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-swine-flu-emergency-20091025-hepk.html

Alternative media sites are not happy about it:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/preside...mergency-over-swine-flu-pandemic-but-why.html

 

[Sloth]

but the vial has to be used once opened.so if only 2 have the injection, then the rest is thrwon away.

cheaper imo to have have single dose vials.

HUGE problem in the pharma industry actually, especially for cancer drugs. The Pharma companies only make multi-dose vials, so half is wasted. The govt refuses to pay for the wasted portion, so only half the treatment cost is covered by PBS.