Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[LoungeLizard]

And that "something wrong" was........?

I'm more than happy for you to enlighten us as to what we did wrong. That's been my point all along.

If it wasn't a naked exercise of power by the AFL, there was clearly something else going on behind the scenes that the public has never been filled in on. The whole thing was very suss.

Like Melbourne not tanking?

If you like to think you did nothing wrong, you go for it, most of us will think otherwise.

I can't say what the agreement with COLA was, because i never saw what was written, was it a verbal agreement?

Anyway, you pissed off the AFL, they dished out a penalty and you took it, if you did nothing wrong, why did you lay down?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

wtf
those games brought the crowds long before they were "blockbusters"

85k members pre-Covid and however many supporters on top of that.
AFL does not set us up financially.

Of course you have a bunch of members. Look at the story you have to sell. All these special fixtures.

It’s outrageous. It’s straight up favouritism. It’s unfair. All clubs should get the same.

 

[Ceehook]

Cool, so tell me why the AFL can't fund and run such a program without a "club" benefiting from it. If the desire affect is too attract and keep young talent in the AFL system surely it doesnt need to be linked to a club.

But let's continue to pretend it isn't about keeping non footy state clubs consistently competitive

have you been involved with Auskick or AFL juniors and dealt with your local AFL ?

 

[KissKiss]

Your Almost got it Right......

Advantages for Victorian team:
-Less Travel
-Home grand final (vs non victorian side)
-Has not one but 2 leagues for local talent: the VFL and the TAC or the NAB cup which is the country league...
-can get elite vic players like Judd or Dangerfield at the right price, even possibly as free agents.
-More available jobs post playing Career such as an assistant coach or development coach or work in the media.

Disadvantages of a Victorian side:
-Only Home Advantages against only 8 non vic clubs.
-In theory Harder to make finals as a midtable vic side due to sharing home ground with 9 other vic clubs.
-Hard to get the elite talent in the draft as each side is against 9 other Vic clubs.
-Harder to win a grand final in a way If the Victorian side faces another victorian side. 9 in a 17 chance so in Scott Steiner mathematics, a more than 50% chance of that happening.


Advantages of a SA or WA based side
-Home ground advantage vs 16 other clubs
-12 home state games and 10 away games
-In theory as a half decent non-vic side, more easier to make finals. get those 12 wins buy winning 9 or 10 games out of 12 and win 2 or 3 away game against bottom 6 clubs.
-Only have one other side fighting for local talent in the WAFL or SANFL.
-Easier to make top 4 or even a grand final. Look at West coast in 2015 or 2018. Won 15 games. 10 home games and 5 away games and Beat 2 Victorian sides at home to make a Grand final.

Disadvantages of a South Aussie or west aussie side
-Interstate travel especially in Melbourne. Hell lack of games at the MCG. All non vic sides get one game at the MCG each season. Freo didnt get one in the regular season in 2010.
-Harder to win a Grand final vs a Victorian side. As there are 10 Victorian sides and only 7 other non-Vic sides.
-Short odds for Non-Vic side to face another non-vic side in a grand final unless both Vic sides have very good seasons and finish top 2 or all top 4 spots are taken by non-vic sides.

Advantages of a NSW or Queensland side
-Home ground Advantage vs 17 other clubs
-Like the SA and WA teams, 12 home state games and 10 away games
-A semi decent NSW and Queensland side can make finals winning 9 or 10 home games and 2 or 3 away games vs bottom 6 away teams.
-Mainly for the Queenlanders. QAFL can produce local talent.

Disadvantages of a NSW or Queensland side
-Interstate travel. Not as dire as the WA clubs. If Canberra gets an AFL team for example, Canberra is only 250kms away from sydney and 650 kms away from Melbourne.
-Hard enough to win a flag Like the SA and WA clubs as theres a 10 in 17 chance that Queensland or NSW side has to beat a formidable Victorian side in a GF. Unless they are fortunate enough to get another Non-Vic side Like the swans did in 2005-6.
-SA and WA teams do have a strong local league in the SANFL and WAFL to get local talent. NSW and Queenslands sides are not that fortunate. QAFL does produce some draftees from Queensland. Hence there is a reliance on Academy products....

WillHayward and General Giant and Giant Pete I think i covered most of it. Might be missing 1 or 2 things.

Its a good list but have another one to add in somewhere:
Interstate clubs are more likely to be sent to Tassie, Geelong, Ballarat, etc for games. Very few (big) Victorian teams get those trips

 

[citizen-erased]

Of course you have a bunch of members. Look at the story you have to sell. All these special fixtures.

It’s outrageous. It’s straight up favouritism. It’s unfair. All clubs should get the same.

please
We have members because we have a large fanbase.
The fan base is not a symptom of the games we get.

1993 - Pies v Dons - 84k
1994 - Pies v Dons. 74k
1995 - Anzac Day. 95k.

We do just fine financially without the AFL.

 

[Bjo187]

Do the umpires come through the swans academy too?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

please
We have members because we have a large fanbase.
The fan base is not a symptom of the games we get.

1993 - Pies v Dons - 84k
1994 - Pies v Dons. 74k
1995 - Anzac Day. 95k.

We do just fine financially without the AFL.

You’re being gifted blockbuster fixtures at the expense of other clubs. It’s a fact. It’s unfair. It’s unequal.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Like Melbourne not tanking?

I have no idea what you're getting at here.

If you like to think you did nothing wrong, you go for it, most of us will think otherwise.

This is the most ridiculous discussion I've been involved in on BF for quite some time.

You're telling us we did something wrong, but it's quite clear you've got as much idea what that something is, as anyone has - i.e. a big fat zero.

If you're so sure of your position, YOU tell us what we did wrong to warrant a two-year trade ban, and we can proceed. Sheesh.

I can't say what the agreement with COLA was, because i never saw what was written, was it a verbal agreement?

I didnt ask you what it was. Anyway, it was a written agreement, signed off on by all club presidents. (Didn't stop your recent president endlessly bitching about it of course.)

Anyway, you pissed off the AFL, they dished out a penalty and you took it, if you did nothing wrong, why did you lay down?

Already been through this. Over and out.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Do the umpires come through the swans academy too?

Yep, of course. Is there no limit to our evil?

 

[citizen-erased]

You’re being gifted blockbuster fixtures at the expense of other clubs. It’s a fact. It’s unfair. It’s unequal.

Would make no difference, so i don't see how it's unfair.
Not sure how the dreamtime game classifies as a blockbuster either.
It's a saturday night game at the G. Whenever it's played, the crowd will be the same.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I have no idea what you're getting at here.


This is the most ridiculous discussion I've been involved in on BF for quite some time.

You're telling us we did something wrong, but it's quite clear you've got as much idea what that something is, as anyone has - i.e. a big fat zero.

If you're so sure of your position, YOU tell us what we did wrong to warrant a two-year trade ban, and we can proceed. Sheesh.

I didnt ask you what it was. Anyway, it was a written agreement, signed off on by all club presidents. (Didn't stop your recent president endlessly bitching about it of course.)
Already been through this. Over and out.

OMG.

You don't want to think you did anything wrong, i am saying if you didn't then why did you take the punishment?

Is the club weak or something?
Or did the club actually do something wrong?

The later seems more obvious to me, not some sooky swans supporters who don't want to think their club could ever do anything wrong.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

I think the academy program is fantastic and all clubs should have similar programs. At the moment the traditional footy states only get access to father sons and certain groups. Anything that improves the overall standard of the game is a positive and should be embraced and in this case expanded.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

OMG.

You don't want to think you did anything wrong, i am saying if you didn't then why did you take the punishment?

Is the club weak or something?
Or did the club actually do something wrong?

The later seems more obvious to me, not some sooky swans supporters who don't want to think their club could ever do anything wrong.

You are seriously an oddball.

Yes, the AFL nailed the Swans' head to a coffee table because they had transgressed The Unwritten Law. (Monty Python reference - you're probably too young.)

Tell us what we did wrong.

Go on, tell us.

But you won't, will you?

And the reason you won't say what we did wrong is because you don't know either, do you?

But admitting that would mean you can't call Swans supporters "sooks".

No we are not "weak". Are you even bothering to read my posts? I already said that in the Barry Hall case, the Swans had no hesitation in using the best legal team in the land to read the AFL's rules back to them. Are you too young to remember 2005?

Only one sook here, and it ain't me.

Bye. This discussion been a complete waste of everyone's time. Apologies to anyone else who has had to read this tripe.

 

[LoungeLizard]

You are seriously an oddball.

Yes, the AFL nailed the Swans' head to a coffee table because they had transgressed The Unwritten Law. (Monty Python reference - you're probably too young.)

Tell us what we did wrong.

Go on, tell us.

But you won't, will you?

And the reason you won't say what we did wrong is because you don't know either, do you?

But admitting that would mean you can't call Swans supporters "sooks".

No we are not "weak". Are you even bothering to read my posts? I already said that in the Barry Hall case, the Swans had no hesitation in using the best legal team in the land to read the AFL's rules back to them. Are you too young to remember 2005?

Only one sook here, and it ain't me.

Bye. This discussion been a complete waste of everyone's time. Apologies to anyone else who has had to read this tripe.

Why would i be sooking about the swans being banned from trading?

You are the one doing the sooking here.

Just face it, your club either stuffed up and used COLA in a way it shouldn't have, or didn't have the balls to fight the charges.

I will go the with they stuffed up, you can just keep sooking.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Why would i be sooking about the swans being banned from trading?

You are the one doing the sooking here.

Just face it, your club either stuffed up and used COLA in a way it shouldn't have, or didn't have the balls to fight the charges.

I will go the with they stuffed up, you can just keep sooking.

Daicos to Norf.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Has anyone noticed how Collingwood have had serious salary cap problems since the demise of The Footy Show?

 

[The Gong]

Has anyone noticed how Collingwood have had serious salary cap problems since the demise of The Footy Show?

Hang on. Are you saying Travis Cloke wasn't on there because of his magnetic personality?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Why would i be sooking about the swans being banned from trading?

You are the one doing the sooking here.

Just face it, your club either stuffed up and used COLA in a way it shouldn't have, or didn't have the balls to fight the charges.

I will go the with they stuffed up, you can just keep sooking.

See, you have no idea either, do you? Onto Ignore. Time waster.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Daicos to Norf.

Has Collingwood taken up occupation in your head?

Or are you having a sook also?

 

[Bloods86]

Why would i be sooking about the swans being banned from trading?

You are the one doing the sooking here.

Just face it, your club either stuffed up and used COLA in a way it shouldn't have, or didn't have the balls to fight the charges.

I will go the with they stuffed up, you can just keep sooking.

I'd have thought it pretty difficult for the Swans to stuff up their use of COLA and use it in a way that we shouldn't have, when it was the AFL stipulating the percentage and payment approach. The Swans didn't get an extra amount on their salary cap to use however they wanted. They agreed contracts with players, and it was an AFL enforced 9.8% per year on top of the individual contracts. From the AFLPA at the time - "At all times, the Sydney Swans have complied fully with the AFL’s Rules, and the club has been in discussion with the AFL Commission and Executive how it should be allowed to participate in trading during the phase out process."

It was pure and simple an act of punishment for the audacity of recruiting some big name players, one of whom was presumably supposed to be destined to a club with the same contract allowances. The Swans had the option at the time to completely drop COLA immediately or get a 2 year trade ban (with the later exception for the Jetta and Sinclair trade). The former wasn't feasible at short notice, so they had to accept.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I'd have thought it pretty difficult for the Swans to stuff up their use of COLA and use it in a way that we shouldn't have, when it was the AFL stipulating the percentage and payment approach. The Swans didn't get an extra amount on their salary cap to use however they wanted. They agreed contracts with players, and it was an AFL enforced 9.8% per year on top of the individual contracts. From the AFLPA at the time - "At all times, the Sydney Swans have complied fully with the AFL’s Rules, and the club has been in discussion with the AFL Commission and Executive how it should be allowed to participate in trading during the phase out process."

Then why did they not fight the charges, weak?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Has Collingwood taken up occupation in your head?

Or are you having a sook also?

Not Collingwood. Just their laughable hypocrisy.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Not Collingwood. Just their laughable hypocrisy.

Mate, i'm not Collingwood.

And if you are inferring that the club does things wrong, and i have disputed that, please show me where?

Otherwise, learn what hypocrisy means.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Then why did they not fight the charges, weak?

There were no charges. Just an impossible ultimatum.

Could only have been challenged in the Federal Court. Such a challenge would have raised the ugly issue of restraint of trade. Swans chose to keep their powder dry in this instance. I disagreed.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Mate, i'm not Collingwood.

And if you are inferring that the club does things wrong, and i have disputed that, please show me where?

Otherwise, learn what hypocrisy means.

Whatever, Larry. Look to your own club’s conduct and bullshit advantages before you pass judgment on ours.