News Tall order for Tigers

[McGun]

I heard a bit of whisper that the Tigers and Melbourne might be keen on McKernan from Adelaide.

Thanks for the info, Dont really think we need him. Riewoldt, Vickery and Griff can be one of the best fowards in the AFL and at 198cm his to short to be a ruckman.

 

[Damo80]

The simple fact is, to get a really good ruckman, in the right age bracket, with enough size, development and experience under his belt, we'd have to pay through the nose. I don't see the point.

I can see the possibility of a Vickery / Derrickx combination where the split isn't the 80/20 ruck/forward split which seems to be the current norm, but closer to a 50/50 or 60/40 split. From what I've read Derrickx is quite capable up forward, but I doubt has the engine to run 80% in the ruck (nor does Ty quite yet, but getting closer). If the balance is closer to 50/50, it may just work.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Thanks for the info, Dont really think we need him. Riewoldt, Vickery and Griff can be one of the best fowards in the AFL and at 198cm his to short to be a ruckman.

It suprised me too - I didn't think Richmond would need another of his kind (unless Griffiths body doesn't hold up? - but even then it's still too early to tell). I doubt he'd leave Adelaide anyway.

 

[McGun]

It suprised me too - I didn't think Richmond would need another of his kind (unless Griffiths body doesn't hold up? - but even then it's still too early to tell). I doubt he'd leave Adelaide anyway.

Not worth getting him incase Griffiths body doesn't hold up. Have any other news for us?

 

[YearOfTheCotch10]

Bulldogs arn't going to give up a first round draft pick and F/S selection. Better to go for Jordan Roughead.

Griffen was traded back to Perth to be with his ill father apparently, So I can't see him moving to Vic after only being there for one year.

Back-up ruckman Jonathon Griffin is also understood to be disgruntled and could even consider requesting a shock trade back to South Australia.
Griffin is believed to be frustrated by the Dockers' reluctance to play him and Aaron Sandilands in the same side.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/fremantle-dockers-looming-as-centre-of-offseason-draft-trades/story-e6frg1xu-1226081897975

just saw this and must say that I would be extremely keen to pursue this bloke, been exceptional in Sandi's absence

 

[McGun]

Back-up ruckman Jonathon Griffin is also understood to be disgruntled and could even consider requesting a shock trade back to South Australia.
Griffin is believed to be frustrated by the Dockers' reluctance to play him and Aaron Sandilands in the same side.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/fremantle-dockers-looming-as-centre-of-offseason-draft-trades/story-e6frg1xu-1226081897975

just saw this and must say that I would be extremely keen to pursue this bloke, been exceptional in Sandi's absence

Will be 26 at the start of next season, To old for us.

Age says one of the reasons we dont want Clark is because he would be our highest payed player, Is that a good enough reason? What about Matthew Leuenberger there was reports he was close to signing a few weeks ago but i havent heard anything since if so we should be willing to through every thing at him just 23 and 204cm.

 

[carn tigez]

Cameron Wood is just starting to blossom I reckon.
Unlikley the Pies would want to offload him even with Dawes and Jolly ahead of him though.

Wood is no better than Gus.

 

[Strawbs]

The simple fact is, to get a really good ruckman, in the right age bracket, with enough size, development and experience under his belt, we'd have to pay through the nose. I don't see the point.

I can see the possibility of a Vickery / Derrickx combination where the split isn't the 80/20 ruck/forward split which seems to be the current norm, but closer to a 50/50 or 60/40 split. From what I've read Derrickx is quite capable up forward, but I doubt has the engine to run 80% in the ruck (nor does Ty quite yet, but getting closer). If the balance is closer to 50/50, it may just work.

Derrickx is a huge question mark at this stage. Early days and been injured but we really have no idea if he's good enough.

 

[santa claws]

Will be 26 at the start of next season, To old for us.

Age says one of the reasons we dont want Clark is because he would be our highest payed player, Is that a good enough reason? What about Matthew Leuenberger there was reports he was close to signing a few weeks ago but i havent heard anything since if so we should be willing to through every thing at him just 23 and 204cm.

i really dont get it i really dont. what is wrong with some people. we now dont want 26 yr olds at our club and we dont want them at a time when the team and list is devoid of mature big bodies who can actually offer something and we dont want these players who actually raise the bar and standard at the club and gives younger inexperienced players something to aim at.

nope we dont even ask what a player like jon griffen would do for the team the club and the kids below him.

straioght away it would enable us to do away with a doofus in graham.
straight away it will enable us put ranga browne back at coburg where he belongs to properly develop in an environment hes capable of doing well in and growing.
straight away it enables us to ease vickery into the ruck role if that is the aim.
straight away it gives derickx a little time to establish himself without being thrown to the wolves.
straight away it should put our very young mids on a more equal footing come game day.
and we dont want him because god forbid he will be 26 next yr a player who will raise the bar and make any young ruckman we have actually work hard and earn his spot.

we are not in the wallace days where older duds took precedence and we had few younsters coming thru no its the exact opposite our kids are screaming out for experienced players to help guide and teach them.

if jon griffen was available you would take him in a heart beat if the cost was not to high. you would also take a young ruckman in the nd hopefully as cover for him in 4 or 5 yrs time when hes past it.

in all seriousness atm a 30 yr old ruckman would be a huge help to us say a ben hudson just for a yr or two.
it seems some just want to continue to wallow in mediocrity keep the bar very low and hang onto no hopers like graham who will be 25 next yr just because a player is turning 26 next yr. nope i dont get.

 

[smasha]

Jarrod Witts belongs to Collingwood.
He is a NSW scholarship holder tied to us and is a certainty to either be on the senior list or rookie list at a bargain basement price.

I can understand why you mentioned him though, he is a monster of a lad.

What's that make Michael Malthouse?

 

[Mr Magic]

i really dont get it i really dont. what is wrong with some people. we now dont want 26 yr olds at our club and we dont want them at a time when the team and list is devoid of mature big bodies who can actually offer something and we dont want these players who actually raise the bar and standard at the club and gives younger inexperienced players something to aim at.

nope we dont even ask what a player like jon griffen would do for the team the club and the kids below him.

straioght away it would enable us to do away with a doofus in graham.
straight away it will enable us put ranga browne back at coburg where he belongs to properly develop in an environment hes capable of doing well in and growing.
straight away it enables us to ease vickery into the ruck role if that is the aim.
straight away it gives derickx a little time to establish himself without being thrown to the wolves.
straight away it should put our very young mids on a more equal footing come game day.
and we dont want him because god forbid he will be 26 next yr a player who will raise the bar and make any young ruckman we have actually work hard and earn his spot.

we are not in the wallace days where older duds took precedence and we had few younsters coming thru no its the exact opposite our kids are screaming out for experienced players to help guide and teach them.

if jon griffen was available you would take him in a heart beat if the cost was not to high. you would also take a young ruckman in the nd hopefully as cover for him in 4 or 5 yrs time when hes past it.

in all seriousness atm a 30 yr old ruckman would be a huge help to us say a ben hudson just for a yr or two.
it seems some just want to continue to wallow in mediocrity keep the bar very low and hang onto no hopers like graham who will be 25 next yr just because a player is turning 26 next yr. nope i dont get.

You have just mounted an argument not to get a 22-29 year old Ruckman for the Tigers atm!

We could get a 30+plus year old for a fifth round pick if that suits or worse!!!

We could also draft a youngster even a 17 year old

 

[McGun]

i really dont get it i really dont. what is wrong with some people. we now dont want 26 yr olds at our club and we dont want them at a time when the team and list is devoid of mature big bodies who can actually offer something and we dont want these players who actually raise the bar and standard at the club and gives younger inexperienced players something to aim at.

nope we dont even ask what a player like jon griffen would do for the team the club and the kids below him.

straioght away it would enable us to do away with a doofus in graham.
straight away it will enable us put ranga browne back at coburg where he belongs to properly develop in an environment hes capable of doing well in and growing.

straight away it enables us to ease vickery into the ruck role if that is the aim.
straight away it gives derickx a little time to establish himself without being thrown to the wolves.
straight away it should put our very young mids on a more equal footing come game day.
and we dont want him because god forbid he will be 26 next yr a player who will raise the bar and make any young ruckman we have actually work hard and earn his spot.

we are not in the wallace days where older duds took precedence and we had few younsters coming thru no its the exact opposite our kids are screaming out for experienced players to help guide and teach them.

if jon griffen was available you would take him in a heart beat if the cost was not to high. you would also take a young ruckman in the nd hopefully as cover for him in 4 or 5 yrs time when hes past it.

in all seriousness atm a 30 yr old ruckman would be a huge help to us say a ben hudson just for a yr or two.
it seems some just want to continue to wallow in mediocrity keep the bar very low and hang onto no hopers like graham who will be 25 next yr just because a player is turning 26 next yr. nope i dont get.

My point is that the plan is to be playing in a premiership in atleast three years and by the Griffin would be 29 and on the way down but if we get some one like Hampson, Clark or Luenburger they will be reaching there prime we have said we will be trading for a ruckman so don't worry Graham or Browne. Dont get me wrong i think his a good player and would pick him up on the rookie draft if we can but there is other options out there that suit us better. Regardless he is contracted for another season anyway.

 

[nut]

To get an elite ruck you need to pay overs for them. The cheapest way is to continue to use late picks and Rookie selections and try and develop a ruck, whilst using bit players like Graham and Browne while we wait. If we want a Ruck for an instant impact then we will need to give up a fair bit.

I think it's the wrong time to go after a Ruck. We are still 2-3 years away from getting the games into our players and we could potentially snag one through the draft.

I also dont understand why we are playing an open hand. Yes it's obvious we need a ruckman but by climbing Mount Kosciuszko and broadcasting it clubs can prepare to play hard ball with us.

Hopefully we can force a player onto the PSD.... Considering Port, Brisbane and GC all are ok in the ruck states we might be well placed to snag one there. GWS will also want a established ruckman so hopefully they wont be competing to hard against us.

Dimmer might do a Stewie dew and get Brogan over. lol..... I'd actually prefer to take an old ruckman for cheap to see us through 1-2 years.

Paying overs for a young relatively unproven ruck compared to paying cheap for a dinosaur for 1 -2 years is not as bad as people make out.

 

[santa claws]

My point is that the plan is to be playing in a premiership in atleast three years and by the Griffin would be 29 and on the way down but if we get some one like Hampson, Clark or Luenburger they will be reaching there prime we have said we will be trading for a ruckman so don't worry Graham or Browne. Dont get me wrong i think his a good player and would pick him up on the rookie draft if we can but there is other options out there that suit us better. Regardless he is contracted for another season anyway.

wake up to yourself 29 is almost the norm when it comes to gf ruckmen.
one d jolley was a month shy of turning 29 last yr. m gardiner his opposite was 31.the yr before steven king was 31.jason ball was 32 lade was 28. bloody hell keating 28 ottens 29 in 09.
but its not just about gfs or premierships atm for us. and it certainly wont be about that in 3 yrs time, we may be a top 8 side by then if we get things right. no part of it is actually raising the over all standard raising depth experience size and all sorts of things for us the time frame says we must raise the bar and we cant do that just with kids we have to realise some problems will take more than 3 yrs to fix and sometimes taking a 5 yr player will help no end.
the trouble is there are so many with unrealistic time frames 3 ****ing yrs to win a premiership give me a ****ing break.

look i give up it just gets too frustrating you will learn and i bet in the not too distant future you will see why its important for young developing sides starting from scratch need to go out and get 26 yr olds.

 

[Rayzorwire]

The raging hot premiership favourite has used Wood and Leigh Brown as its main ruck combo for most of this year with no detriment to their midfield, so let's not get too excited about what rucks can do for you, our lack in other areas - especially midfield - is what leaves us a million miles behind Collingwood on our current form and these are the areas we must be investing picks.

Malthouse is on record as saying that Graham out-rucked Wood when we played Collingwood earlier in the year.

Graham beat Bellchambers comfortably in the VFL last week, is there any possible better VFL form around to say you can cut it at AFL level than doing that?

Hampson is a horrible forward, has everyone even forgotten his easy misses - both marks and gimme set shots - from our rd.1 game against them? He's no better ruck than Graham when asked to play no.1 and for all this hype about his around the ground athleticism, we're talking about a 23yo who has only broken the 10-possession barrier eight times in his career. He's averaging barely over two marks a game, only three kicks this year...let's not kid ourselves that this bloke has any kind of decent runs on the board when it comes to being a good mobile ruckman, he averages considerably less than Graham on possessions, marks, tackles, hitouts - you name it. As a ruckman, he has never once beaten a decent no.1 ruckman in his career, the only two times he's ever had more than 30 hitouts was this year against Martin and a crippled Brogan.

The odds of getting Gawn must surely be slim, it seems pointless even discussing it. He seems to be a fairly decent prospect from what little I've seen, but very unproven.

So it would seem there are two possible conclusions:

a) Graham is not being picked for reasons other than form (i.e. he's already signed with GWS, disciplinary reasons etc) and we won't use him again because he won't be around next year.

b) Quite a few people in our football department need to be certified.

 

[Mr Magic]

I agree Hampson is nothing special in my eyes, though he may be to some, and Gawn is still a risky prospect with plenty of potential though

 

[Damo80]

Paying overs for a young relatively unproven ruck compared to paying cheap for a dinosaur for 1 -2 years is not as bad as people make out.

Agreed. It seems we will face the choice of:

- Persist with what we've got.
- Get an unwanted, "cheap dinosaur", as you put it, for a couple of years
- Target the best available ruckman out of the U18's with our first pick in the ND
- Pay overs to get someone already on an AFL list, and hope they're better than what we already have.

With options 1 and 2 you probably throw in Option 3 as the longer term cover... but perhaps not using first pick in the ND.

Options 1 - 3 aren't necessarily going to solve our short term issues, but I really don't see how option 4 is helpful in the longer term. And you're dreaming if you think we can land a quality established ruckman for a price we'll be happy with. Leuenberger would be ideal, and unlike HMac or Griffin, he's the perfect age, but he'd cost big... he'd be Brett Deledio expensive. Plus he's apparently recommitted to the Lions, whether or not pen has been put to paper.

 

[Mr Magic]

Agreed. It seems we will face the choice of:

- Persist with what we've got.
- Get an unwanted, "cheap dinosaur", as you put it, for a couple of years
- Target the best available ruckman out of the U18's with our first pick in the ND
- Pay overs to get someone already on an AFL list, and hope they're better than what we already have.

With options 1 and 2 you probably throw in Option 3 as the longer term cover... but perhaps not using first pick in the ND.

Options 1 - 3 aren't necessarily going to solve our short term issues, but I really don't see how option 4 is helpful in the longer term. And you're dreaming if you think we can land a quality established ruckman for a price we'll be happy with. Leuenberger would be ideal, and unlike HMac or Griffin, he's the perfect age, but he'd cost big... he'd be Brett Deledio expensive. Plus he's apparently recommitted to the Lions, whether or not pen has been put to paper.

Fair dinkum, Lids is in a different ballpark to Leunberger. There is no way on earth I would trade Lids for a ruckman!!

 

[Damo80]

Fair dinkum, Lids is in a different ballpark to Leunberger. There is no way on earth I would trade Lids for a ruckman!!

I wasn't suggesting a Leuenberger/Deledio trade per se, simply that as one of the best rucks in the AFL, and only 23, Brisbane aren't going to let him go for a couple of hacks and a 2nd rounder type trade. I think people suggesting we go hard for a quality established ruckman need to realise this. THAT's the point I was trying to drill home, I'm not trying to give Lids away!

 

[Damo80]

Here's a more obsure one to throw out there... Broc McCauley. I'm basing this on the assumption he may be a little way back in the Lions pecking order, and may come cheap.

He will be 25 in December, and the Tigers had been talking to him prior to the Lions taking him a couple of years ago. Only been playing AFL since 16, full time since 18. Pretty athletic, great leap, can play forward. Lions probably need some depth in their 2nd/3rd tall department to help Merrett... Luke Maguane is a QLD boy, and we have Astbury and Gourdis coming along, and a lot of talk we're after Trengrove.

 

[RECORDS!]

My point is that the plan is to be playing in a premiership in atleast three years and by the Griffin would be 29 and on the way down but if we get some one like Hampson, Clark or Luenburger they will be reaching there prime we have said we will be trading for a ruckman so don't worry Graham or Browne. Dont get me wrong i think his a good player and would pick him up on the rookie draft if we can but there is other options out there that suit us better. Regardless he is contracted for another season anyway.

Blow me down - a 29 year old grand final ruckman. Are you serious??? This would be the perfect age for a grand final ruckman. If we could get Griffin, we would be very stupid not to. He wont be popping up in any rookie draft either mate. I would give our second rounder and Browne or Graham for him. We still have a spare early second rounder up our sleeve anyway.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

from the AFL site : top prospects:
anyone know anything about:
Billy Longer, Northern Knights, 12 May 1993, 202cm, 95kg
The skipper of the Vic Metro team is highly regarded for his leadership skills and work ethic. Metro coach Rohan Welsh likens him to West Coast star Dean Cox. He runs all day and can take a big grab up forward. Moves well for a player his size and his strength at the stoppages saw him average 21.5 hitouts per game. Earned All Australian honours.

 

[RECORDS!]

Out of interest, does anyone remember what the Swans gave up for Mumford - I know at the time everyone thought the price was too high, but that has proven to be a masterstroke.

 

[Damo80]

Out of interest, does anyone remember what the Swans gave up for Mumford - I know at the time everyone thought the price was too high, but that has proven to be a masterstroke.

Pick 28.

I think it was the 4 year, $1m+ deal that raised eye-brows. But yes, quite the bargain in hindsight. Richmond need a similar deal to fall into their laps.

 

[YearOfTheCotch10]

from the AFL site : top prospects:
anyone know anything about:
Billy Longer, Northern Knights, 12 May 1993, 202cm, 95kg
The skipper of the Vic Metro team is highly regarded for his leadership skills and work ethic. Metro coach Rohan Welsh likens him to West Coast star Dean Cox. He runs all day and can take a big grab up forward. Moves well for a player his size and his strength at the stoppages saw him average 21.5 hitouts per game. Earned All Australian honours.

Played against this bloke alot in junior footy and has some serious talent. Really like the comparison to Dean Cox in the way he is able to effectively play as a 5th midfielder while dominating the ruck contests. Excellent tap ruckman and has ridiculous skills and hands below his knees for a player of his size. Will be long gone before our first pick, top 5 material.