Talls

[Markfs]

I thought that I would post a serious thread about something that has been spoken about but I wanted to look at the actual list. First, I will list all the so-called Talls

Brodie Grundy
Darcy Cameron
Ben Reid
Jordan Roughhead
Will Kelly
Darcy Moore
Max Lynch
Mason Cox
Mark Keane
Troy Wilson

There are four guys about 192cm. Ruscoe has been listed as 190cm. He certainly plays like a utility. Dunn is supposed to be a tall but isnt. Jack is neither here nor there.

Lynden Dunn
Jack Madgen
Brody Mihocek
Trey Ruscoe

Now I do admit that we have a large number of guys who are around 190cm. These guys arent short but I dont see any of them standing beside the large forwards in the AFL. In fact, when you look at it, only roughhead moore and keane can take lynch or dixon. To me, that's a bit thin.

So the first question is out of all those players, how many had Derek Hine recruited?
Grundy and Reid and Lynch and Ruscoe, yes. Cameron, Roughhead, Dunn were traded. Kelly and Moore were father sons. Cox, Keane, Wilson and Madgen came from "outside sources". Mihocek was a known quantity as a mature ager.

So out of those 4 players that Derek actually selected, Grundy was a good pick, although he was acknowledged as being a good player but recruiters were shy of ruckmen in the first round. Reid was a good pick but he was known as a talented kid. Lynch has shown he is a good VFL player and then there is Ruscoe.

So the club has tried to get talls from outside sources, rather than try to pick a local kid in the 4th or 5th round, and also from trades. It's a very safe strategy regarding the trades, and a real hit and miss when it comes to recruiting non-football sportsmen.

So looking at it another way, there are two star players, a good solid utility forward, a couple of youngsters and a motley crew leftover. I'd like to have a look at other teams but I wouldnt think that the Collingwood talls are anything to rave about.

In the end, I find the whole talls strategy strange. Is it because Derek can't spot talented talls when they're 18? Do they think that talls need to be older? Why hasnt the club picked a couple of speculative 196cm talls in the 4th or 5th round? I'm completely lost on this......

 

[Moeydw]

I thought that I would post a serious thread about something that has been spoken about but I wanted to look at the actual list. First, I will list all the so-called Talls

Brodie Grundy
Darcy Cameron
Ben Reid
Jordan Roughhead
Will Kelly
Darcy Moore
Max Lynch
Mason Cox
Mark Keane
Troy Wilson

There are four guys about 192cm. Ruscoe has been listed as 190cm. He certainly plays like a utility. Dunn is supposed to be a tall but isnt. Jack is neither here nor there.

Lynden Dunn
Jack Madgen
Brody Mihocek
Trey Ruscoe

Now I do admit that we have a large number of guys who are around 190cm. These guys arent short but I dont see any of them standing beside the large forwards in the AFL. In fact, when you look at it, only roughhead moore and keane can take lynch or dixon. To me, that's a bit thin.

So the first question is out of all those players, how many had Derek Hine recruited?
Grundy and Reid and Lynch and Ruscoe, yes. Cameron, Roughhead, Dunn were traded. Kelly and Moore were father sons. Cox, Keane, Wilson and Madgen came from "outside sources". Mihocek was a known quantity as a mature ager.

So out of those 4 players that Derek actually selected, Grundy was a good pick, although he was acknowledged as being a good player but recruiters were shy of ruckmen in the first round. Reid was a good pick but he was known as a talented kid. Lynch has shown he is a good VFL player and then there is Ruscoe.

So the club has tried to get talls from outside sources, rather than try to pick a local kid in the 4th or 5th round, and also from trades. It's a very safe strategy regarding the trades, and a real hit and miss when it comes to recruiting non-football sportsmen.

So looking at it another way, there are two star players, a good solid utility forward, a couple of youngsters and a motley crew leftover. I'd like to have a look at other teams but I wouldnt think that the Collingwood talls are anything to rave about.

In the end, I find the whole talls strategy strange. Is it because Derek can't spot talented talls when they're 18? Do they think that talls need to be older? Why hasnt the club picked a couple of speculative 196cm talls in the 4th or 5th round? I'm completely lost on this......

Jake Riccardi was one I thought we should have taken a punt on last year but we traded the pick to GWS.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I thought that I would post a serious thread about something that has been spoken about but I wanted to look at the actual list. First, I will list all the so-called Talls

Brodie Grundy
Darcy Cameron
Ben Reid
Jordan Roughhead
Will Kelly
Darcy Moore
Max Lynch
Mason Cox
Mark Keane
Troy Wilson

Wow I’d be watching your back after posting that. Might want to go off the grid for a while until things settle down. Use a VPN if you have to get on the internet, maybe only make purchases in cash...

 

[Chameleon75]

We structured our forward line around an international rookie whose only asset was height. That’s all you need to know about the state of our tall stocks.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Also if you would attribute responsibility to Hine for overlooking James Stewart (GWS, Essendon) then you ought to give him credit for Moore, Kelly.

And Checkers being mature aged doesn’t make his selection any less meritorious.

Lachie Keeffe and Witts were two more he helped identify and develop, and for reasons essentially unrelated to their ability, they were moved on.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Talls across the league have changed and evolved. 190cm + is no longer ‘tall’.

If you don’t have adequate KP depth starting 195cm +, your list is too short.

 

[Markfs]

Also if you would attribute responsibility to Hine for overlooking Will Stewart (GWS, Essendon) then you ought to give him credit for Moore, Kelly.

And Checkers being mature aged doesn’t make his selection any less meritorious.

Lachie Keeffe and Witts were two more he helped identify and develop, and for reasons essentially unrelated to their ability, they were moved on.

moore and kelly were father sons . i dont consider that identifying talent. I dont consider any of the father sons identifying talent.

mihocek was well known and lots of collingwood people attended vfl games and would have seen him.

i didnt go into the long history of Hine but you're right about Keeffe and Witts. I'm not sure whether it's so great that you can only name two tall guys in the long history of Hine at the Pies. Witts was identified as a 16 year old if i remember correctly. Not so much about talent but the fact that he was so tall....and he was another free hit because he was taken on board by that program outside the draft. Keeffe, if i remember correctly, was another taken as a rookie as an ex soccer player... another one of those choices outside the box.

 

[Markfs]

I think the long history of selections by the collingwood recruiting team provides a pretty good basis for objective assessment. I think it has done well in certain areas, but the fact that we have played lynden dunn in the last two matches is a reflection of not only Hine but other people at the club.

I understand collingwood's high opinion of Dunn but he was the only alternative when Keane proved to be too raw...... that is incredible to me. After 2 matches he looks to be undersized, and lost any atheticism that he might have had at one time. Jeremy Howe going down meant that Roughhead and Moore had to stay in the team... although we won against adelaide without moore.

at the other end, we had cox or reid or a young will kelly. Saying reid is an option just ignores reality. cox never really solidified his spot in the team. If he was josh kennedy I would understand that the team would be so reliant on him playing each week.

the tall closet is completely bare...

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I’ve got to say, the 2016 draft was especially galling. Many of us were calling for Brennan Cox in the 30’s and were staggered he was still there... we overlooked him for McLarty and then Geelong picked up both Tom Stewart and Ratugolea. There were quite a few serviceable players taken later that year.

 

[manicpie]

Also if you would attribute responsibility to Hine for overlooking Will Stewart (GWS, Essendon) then you ought to give him credit for Moore, Kelly.

And Checkers being mature aged doesn’t make his selection any less meritorious.

Lachie Keeffe and Witts were two more he helped identify and develop, and for reasons essentially unrelated to their ability, they were moved on.

Moore and Kelly were FS picks, Moore was a lock in and Kelly is well, he played one game and lets face it he didn't set the world on fire.

 

[Markfs]

except for tricky overseas programs and other gimmicks, there has been no speculative picks on talls since .... i cant remember.

the indigenous choices is another barren area...

is there a common link? ...maybe talls dont come from "good" families...

 

[Markfs]

Moore and Kelly were FS picks, Moore was a lock in and Kelly is well, he played one game and lets face it he didn't set the world on fire.

the question is not how good they are. if you pick a tall at pick 60 then you are likely to pick a dud.....but there is a chance that they will be good. The point is that we dont even give it a try. If we dont pick talls. We dont make speculative picks on talls. We dont do it. If you dont do it, then you are likely to have very few good talls..... it's simple logic.

maybe the recruiting team put all their money on getting lynch. Does Hine say that he would secured Lynch if he had kept the job of list manager? Maybe he would have jumped the lynch's back fence faster than Nick.

 

[loki04]

except for tricky overseas programs and other gimmicks, there has been no speculative picks on talls since .... i cant remember.

the indigenous choices is another barren area...

is there a common link? ...maybe talls dont come from "good" families...

I think they have bought in to the quality talls arent needed theory only need someone to compete, like Knightmare amoung others is running with.

Also probably that they are low value picks like sr36 believes. As in investment vs mids they take more identifying and typically more hits at the draft board to get it right.

 

[loki04]

Both KPF and Indigenous talent seem to be a dirty words with Hine and co atm.

 

[Markfs]

we call this a forum... and i understand that there's a lot of people who dont read my posts and thats ok. But I cant find one person who can defend the club's position on talls..and we can find dozens of people who will post like 5 year olds after a bad loss.... as ben would say, such is life..

 

[Markfs]

I think they have bought in to the quality talls arent needed theory only need someone to compete, like Knightmare amoung others is running with.

Also probably that they are low value picks like sr36 believes. As in investment vs mids they take more identifying and typically more hits at the draft board to get it right.

i might have spoken too early. You make a couple of good points.

 

[manicpie]

I think they have bought in to the quality talls arent needed theory only need someone to compete, like Knightmare amoung others is running with.

Also probably that they are low value picks like sr36 believes. As in investment vs mids they take more identifying and typically more hits at the draft board to get it right.

I always here the mids crap. Let's face it, besides Pendles the rest are not quality, so many mids get taken and don't make it, I think you need to take risks on tall players as well as mids. In the end a recruiter won't look as bad if he picks a mid that is just a good player rather than a Forward who might be a bust, either way, **** off Hine

 

[Markfs]

I think they have bought in to the quality talls arent needed theory only need someone to compete, like Knightmare amoung others is running with.

Also probably that they are low value picks like sr36 believes. As in investment vs mids they take more identifying and typically more hits at the draft board to get it right.

if someone thinks quality talls arent needed they should look at the last geelong game or our game against the eagles. we have talls but we get them on the list via gimmicks..... we're looking to "cheat" on getting a good tall by using the gimmicks and leave the draft to speculate on midfielders and half backs. I would do the reverse. I would recruit irish midfielders.

 

[Markfs]

I always here the mids crap. Let's face it, besides Pendles the rest are not quality, so many mids get taken and don't make it, I think you need to take risks on tall players as well as mids. In the end a recruiter won't look as bad if he picks a mid that is just a good player rather than a Forward who might be a bust, either way, fu** off Hine

are you saying that our head recruiter is concerned about looking good? Gee i wonder if i have considered that before....

 

[loki04]

if someone thinks quality talls arent needed they should look at the last geelong game or our game against the eagles. we have talls but we get them on the list via gimmicks..... we're looking to "cheat" on getting a good tall by using the gimmicks and leave the draft to speculate on midfielders and half backs. I would do the reverse. I would recruit irish midfielders.

Irish seem to make very good running half backs.

Wing is probably another spot that suits them imo.


But yes international talls seem to be more miss then hit at this stage. Imo I still think keene can make it but should come into the team in a Langdon/Maxwell style role. Not straight in as a KPD, let him get his wings on the 3rd tall types.

 

[Markfs]

Irish seem to make very good running half backs.

Wing is probably another spot that suits them imo.


But yes international talls seem to be more miss then hit at this stage. Imo I still think keene can make it but should come into the team in a Langdon/Maxwell style role. Not straight in as a KPD, let him get his wings on the 3rd tall types.

yes it was a baptism of fire and i'm not throwing him out after one game... although the 5 year old inside of me may post that way..

 

[manicpie]

I'm pulling out of this thread with,"we are ****ed for talls"

 

[Markfs]

yeh... a thread leading to a conclusion that is pretty self evident..

 

[frizzle]

Moore was always going to be our most talented & dangerous tall forward. But we made him a defender instead.
Defenders are considerably easier to find than classy key position forwards. As of 2021 we should be training him to be that player from the very start of pre season. I'd still be having a crack at Daniher if he wants out of Essendon. Get him fit & the tall forward position is solved. He is in the Lynch class when up & going & wont cost draft picks.

 

[loki04]

yeh... a thread leading to a conclusion that is pretty self evident..

Are you being sarcastic to your own thread you created?

This is the first thread ive seen someone start and derail all in the same 10 or so posts. Like Jekkyl and Hyde posting their thoughts on collingwoods talls. Did give me a chuckle though.