Tarrant and Lonie on wings

[Murray]

MarkT has been a huge advocate of this for some time and after thinking about it I think it has some merit.
The forward line talls could be a combination Rocca, Davidson, Fraser, C-Cloke and perhaps Morrison which would allow Taz to move up to a wing.
I also tend to agree with Mark that Lonie would be a sensation running off a wing.

Any thoughts?

 

[Lockyer24]

Take one of Rocca or Taz out of our forward line and suddenly we are extremely light on for options.

Davidson should take at least half a season to show anything.

Morrison will be lucky to play 1-2 games.

C-Clo wouldn't kick enough goals to permit a permanent role.


I'd like to play Ben Johnson off the wing all year this year, provided David King can fill his role down back. Lonie off a wing will also be good, I just hope he can return to his 02 Finals form.

 

[Nic]

Almost seems a waste to take Taz out of the forward line at the moment, when we don't know enough about the young talls we have. But I am all for giving them a go there on occasion with Taz on a wing, but not at the expense of stuffing up the whole structure.

Now Lonie on a wing I do agree with, even playing him a little like Tarrant was played last season pushing up to a forward flank.

 

[moe sizlak]

lockyer 24 is absolutely right. Great answer.

 

[hotpie]

Tarrant should be played EXACTLY as he is now. A roaming forward.

Lonie can play wide - everybody know that he would be a good winger, but at this stage of his career he needs to learn how to find the hard ball. Put him in the guts.

I agree with King at half back and BJ on a wing. BJ was bombing a goal from 50 every week late in the season last year.

 

[Magpira]

Originally posted by Lockyer24
I'd like to play Ben Johnson off the wing all year this year, provided David King can fill his role down back.

Ditto Locks. That's what I have been thinking too. Not to sure about anyone being able to play the small defender role adequately enough.

 

[FIGJAM]

How's about when we have any semblance of proof that anyone except for Tarrant can hold down the FF spot competently at AFL (hell, even VFL level!), then, and only then, should we be thinking about moving him.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Lockyer24
Take one of Rocca or Taz out of our forward line and suddenly we are extremely light on for options.

That's unquestionably the danger. Much depends on how we cope in the ruck with less Fraser and how Cloke/Walker/Davidson cope with a marking forward role in their first year. We will never know though because we will never try it. I'd love to try it round 1 and see what we have to play with during the year. The problem is we will be without Rocca in round 1 so Tarrant becomes essential up forward.

Originally posted by Lockyer24
I'd like to play Ben Johnson off the wing all year this year, provided David King can fill his role down back. Lonie off a wing will also be good, I just hope he can return to his 02 Finals form.

I am not overly confident about King as an AFL backman but he has to be brought into the side early. Roids will be an excellent bplayer for us for the next 10 years. I see his role as similar to Licuria's only he has better pace. Kicking is still a problem but he's a hard worker and is improving.

IMO Lonie is not a backman's bum hole. I don't think he's ever beated a forward as a direct opponent. He look a wingman to me. He has to make ground this season though or he may be unemployer. He was pretty dissapointing in 2003. I'd like him to be put on the wing in round 1 and left there long enough to see what he can do. If his form isn;t up to scratch then it's time for him to find a role via Williamstown because his occassional running goals are not enough for a half back that doesn't shut down an opponent or get enough of the ball to force a tag.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by FIGJAM
How's about when we have any semblance of proof that anyone except for Tarrant can hold down the FF spot competently at AFL (hell, even VFL level!), then, and only then, should we be thinking about moving him.

How many games have you actually seen Tarrant play a real FF role? I reckon very few. A marking forward line riole yes and an up the ground leading link role yes adn both in the same game yes. Rarely a FF role. He doesn't really play there. You could put him on a flank and put Fraser at FF and it would make zero negative impact to anything up forward.

It isn't Tarrant's efforts as a FF that have been so good but his efforts as a mobile marking forward in the past and combining that with an up the ground link player in 2003 that have been very good for us. Who plays at a position titled FF is acedemic. The roles they play in the forward set up is what is important. Tarrants 2003 role is hard to replace. Tarrants forward role prior to 2003 is easily replaced although in 2003 not so easy given the age the potential replacements. Lets not over state the impact of Tarrant prior to last season. He was a spasmodicially brilliant marking forward and much less so against top level opposition. Huge potential but hardly limited to a FF or even a KPP role.

 

[MarkT]

People are understandably reluctant to move Tarrant. I am skeptical about what we can get from Cloke/Walker/Davidson and don't expect anything much from Morrison or Hall in 2004.

What I really want to know though is how do we make the large leap we need to make to be able to stand toe to toe with Brisbane? They have our measure in the ruck and are probably the best midfield outfit ever assembled. They are not fantastic up forward but very adequate. Their backline is tight and creative.

I think we can be as tight and almost as creative with our back set up. I think we can only get close in the midfield if we slot another very, very talented player into the mix. I can't see us being close to even in the ruck. The one area I can see us stretching them is with marking forwards. They have a truck load of good small defenders and we only have 1 decent (although as yet hardly consistently damaging) small forward. We need to make their small defenders redundant and make them worry about or tall forwards.

They can't match up on Rocca and he is our ace. Tarrant is a tough match up if Rocca is there. Moving him out and replacing him with Fraser in a way to keep the tall matchups difficult for them and add something to the centre line that makes them worry. Tarrant can always drift forward or even be mover back to the forward line at any time during a match. Playing either Cloke, Davidson or Walker in the forward line makes Brisbane or anyone else searches their squad for another tall defender. At present I favour Cloke because he can help in the ruck, Davidson will need time to get over the knee and Walker has no idea at present.

The ruck is a problem anyway you look at it. I'd throw Richards in. IMO he won’t do any worse as a tap ruckman than Fraser. Fraser is miles ahead around the ground though. Tarrant will make part of that up and running Fraser as an onball ruckman for periods will get some of what we lose back. Rocca and Cloke are other options for ruck duties.

 

[hotpie]

Matthew Clarke was a clumsy, slow, physically weak player early in his career. He is now (or was a year or two ago) one of the best tap ruckmen in the game.

Richards is a classic "late bloomer" and I see many similarities between him and Clarke. If Richards produces, suddenly we have flexibility with our key forwards. If not, we will be unable to experiment much at all.

 

[hotpie]

Walker will never make it as a permanent forward. He will in 2005 however replace Wakelin at CHB/FB and be a handy third ruck/occassional tall forward option.

 

[morgoth]

In one case I do not agree and in the other I don't think that is the clubs plan.

Taz is a great running target on the lead and would add a lot at say kick-outs. I doubt his ability to play the linking role that is required of a middie. We would also lose out in the forward line.

Last thing I want is another Gav Brown where he was the best winger in the AFL and we then played him everywhere but to plug holes, robbing peter to pay paul.

Lonie - I think they are grooming him for KPP down back (CHB is my guess in a Roos type role). He is 191cm and they have put a lot of effort into bulking him up, by all accounts he has put on muscle over summer. If he was being groomed for a wing he would be putting on lean muscle, not bulk.

He is good overhead but very poor below his knees which would be a big weakness for a winger.

Final comment is that you could possible put one on a wing but not both and I like the sound of Johnson going to the middle more.

 

[MarkT]

I agree it isn't on the clubs radar. I can't see lonie as a KPP. IMO he can't contest nearly well enough in the air or on the ground. He would ahve no hope in a pack situation which he would get as as a KPP. 6'1" is an ok height for a utility but for a KPP it is Gavin Brown all over again.

 

[Jabso]

Lonie as anything but a flanker/pocket player at either end would be a bonus. To tall for most midfielders and to quick for most tall forwards.
Lonie is pretty good defensively, at alot of games teams limited his running ability by putting him one-on-one in the goal square however Lonie usually always beat his oponent. I think last years problem with Lonie (as well as alleged personal problems) was he was in fact TOO defensive.
As for Tarrant on the wing I'm not sure. Perhaps in a few years time but with Tarrant's long leads he creates so much space, even if someone misses or looks past Tarrant on a long lead we still are benefited from the space he suddenly creates.

 

[Wrenny]

Guys i aint a collingwood supporter but i must admit i do like the way lonie plays his footy. He is a gun and i would like him to be at my team. He would be pretty good off the wing because of his penetrating kick and his accuracy. Hold on to him