Tasmania Congratulations on Tassie License. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5

[Chief]

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GO TO PART 2 of this thread:

Tasmania - Tasmania Devils, welcome to the AFL. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5 (Part 2)

Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/congratulations-on-tassie-license-mens-team-to-enter-2028-womens-team-tba-other-details-tba-3-5.1226653/ Was going to draft up a Summary but this is pretty good...

www.bigfooty.com

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[madmug]

Well said I think it was a Tom hafey quote were he said a 20 kg weight is the same weather it’s in 5 star gym or your own garage meaning facilities are no excuse

I guess it gets back to the current economic situation. The idea you need $50mil to run a club is no longer valid. A reset of costs & whats affordable will advantage a TasTeam. & even a WA3.

Maybe the code can expand with a lower wasteful cost burden. Thats to the advantage of the AFL. The trickledown might help the lower leagues too.

 

[Rob]

I guess it gets back to the current economic situation. The idea you need $50mil to run a club is no longer valid. A reset of costs & whats affordable will advantage a TasTeam. & even a WA3.

I'd argue it was never valid - it was always 90% bullshit, more about the look than impact on performance.

But I'm not sure the long term answer is clubs making mega profits (which many invariably will if expenses are cut across the league). Because that will result in pissed off players not understanding why they keep getting told there's no money to increase their salary when their club has millions in the bank.

I'm not really sure what the answer is TBH.

 

[The_Wookie]

Clubs essentially lost the ability to self manage, i.e save for a rainy day. That's a culture the AFL *is* responsible for.

Its a culture that predates the AFL (and it wasnt just a problem that affected VFL clubs) but it is one of the main reasons the Commission was appointed - to make money for clubs. Its why so much of the revenues are centralised and distributed back. Its why the smaller clubs get larger distributions to cover the inequities in the fixture and resultant stadium deals.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Penrith [& the Central West of NSW! CW tribalism & local heroes! ] benefits hugely from Penrith Leagues funding its development programs - the club and leagues have the same parent.

I agree- & the" incorporation" by Penrith of the Central West is further evidence (not that any is needed) of the crucial importance of tribalism, & local heroes.
"Penrith" branding on all the CW jnr & snr clubs jumpers, oval signage & their local club websites etc. recently, & the new 3 local CW Academies, is just a microcosm of how successful a Tas. 19th team would be in improving Draft nos., & GR AF generally.

Tasmania's population is much bigger than the CW, its team would have guaranteed & higher funding from the Tas. govt., other funding. Therefore, the no. of Tas. elite players drafted would be much higher than the no. Penrith has recently recruited from the CW Academies.

I doubt Sheahan has sat on Committee meetings since the 80s when he worked at AFL House. the Commission of today is vastly different to the VFL Commission of pre 1993

M. Sheahan is one of the most respected & knowledgeable (& a recipient of journalism awards) AF journalists in history. He (similar to very respected finance journalist A. Kohler, linked by me previously) said the financial waste of AFL funds continued "until covid came in" ie March 2020.
Sheahan's & Kohler's views on AFL waste can be relied on.

In the late 1980's (when Sheahan was working full time for the VFL/AFL), the AFL was struggling financially, & it was feared several clubs were insolvent.
The fact it was prepared to waste precious funds then shows how disgraceful its behaviour was- & that the AFL greed & waste would simply continue inexorably when, as Sheahan said (re very large AFL funds) "because it just comes in" until 2020. The AFL had no qualms, or barriers to its greed & incompetence.

And Per capita measurements of player numbers are ridiculous.[No]

Multiple AFL officials have commented, over many years, on the importance, for the future of AF, on strong participation nos.

The AFL has stated it "...has the responsibility to promote, control, manage, encourage, develop, & foster the Australian game of football".

It has failed to do this in Tasmania, where AF is in a disastrous situation (eg the fabled production line of champions, stars, & many good VFL/AFL players has been poor since 2000; & raw decline in male club & school comp. nos.; & raw decline in crowds to elite TSL etc. games).
This is why A. Demetriou & G. McLachlan have said several times (including in 2019) that, paraphrasing "When the AFL expands next, Tasmania will probably be the next team to join). R. Oakley expressed a similar sentiment in 2019.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I've got no doubt football department spending was/is completely out of control. But the AFL doesn't have that much influence over most clubs, and given the salary cap what else were the clubs supposed to spend the money on?[The CAFEGZPP below] In the end it became an arms race with one club hiring a full time toenail cutter so therefore every club needed to do it.

Wealthy clubs (who have had strong net profits for a minimum of 3 consecutive years) could be invited by the AFL to control fully a Zone, in non-heartland areas only (ie GR funding by the AFL would cease there)
ie NSW (Newcastle, Central Coast, or Wollongong), Qld. (Townsville or Rockhampton etc.), NZ (Auckland or Wellington), PNG, Pacific, USA (LA or NY), Canada. etc.

If participating, Clubs would be required to spend at least $1.5- $3m pa (?) on GR development (with, also, a prescribed & necesssary minimum significant growth rate in GR club player nos.- 10% increase pa?); & Academies. Must commit to a minimum of 10 years.
If all guidelines are met, each year, they could have priority, on a maximum of 1 or 2 players only, over any players recruited from their Zone Academy.

Further details on how this Club Australian Football Exclusive Grassroots Zone Promotional Program (CAFEGZPP) might operate, & still be reasonably fair to all other non-participating Clubs, are in this link below.

The AFL would reserve the right to amend, or terminate, the CAFEGZPP at any time within the 10 years, purely at its own discretion.

Tasmania - Congratulations on Tassie License. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5

GO TO PART 2 of this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/congratulations-on-tassie-license-mens-team-to-enter-2028-womens-team-tba-other-details-tba-3-5-part-2.1357724/

www.bigfooty.com

(Scroll to my post#2239)

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Wealthy clubs (who have had strong net profits for a minimum of 3 consecutive years) could be invited by the AFL to control fully a Zone, in non-heartland areas only (ie GR funding by the AFL would cease there)
ie NSW (Newcastle, Central Coast, or Wollongong), ACT, Qld. (Townsville or Rockhampton), NZ (Auckland or Wellington), PNG, Pacific, USA (LA or NY), Canada. etc.

There's an idea. Given the number of South Africans in Western Australia, it might be an idea for West Coast to build links there. I'm sure there's plenty of untapped talent that isn't able to play RU at the highest level that could be a good fit.

 

[Our Game]

There's an idea. Given the number of South Africans in Western Australia, it might be an idea for West Coast to build links there. I'm sure there's plenty of untapped talent that isn't able to play RU at the highest level that could be a good fit.

The AFL did have a program in some parts of South Africa but I think it's not operating anymore.The AFLSA website is not open!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The AFL did have a program in some parts of South Africa but I think it's not operating anymore.The AFLSA website is not open!

Good opportunity to restart it. Maybe the Eagles could even buy a game to play there, like Port Adelaide do. Obviously the trade links are much smaller, but there's plenty of potential.

 

[Established1870]

Have always thought that the Pacific Islands/PNG and New Zealand make the only sense for international expansion for our game in terms of bringing through talent and viewers (however limited) but South Africa actually does make a lot of sense considering the common language, culture and interest in sports. When the finances are up again, it'd be something to push for in the future.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. SMH S. Phillips 9.11

Re RA's new Rights' deal, Phillips said

"Rugby Australia's CEO R. Clarke praised the landmark deal, which is more significant in both cash & contra than the previous domestic contract with Foxtel (& Ch.10- my words & emphasis)".
New RA domestic Rights are $100m for 3 years- c. $30m cash & $3.33m advertising contra pa.

Nine, Rugby Australia confirm groundbreaking $100m broadcast deal

Super Rugby will be on live on free-to-air television for the first time with a landmark partnership officially confirmed by Nine and Rugby Australia.

www.smh.com.au

There has been much commentary in the Aust. & overseas MSM by experts that future Rights' deals, for all sports, will be inferior to those of the past- due to the general decline in viewing nos./recession etc.

The RA old deal was $57m pa (inc. contra)- but approx. 50% of this $57m was for very valuable Super Rugby games that Aust. played in South Africa. These SA games were in European Prime Time, where they had huge ratings, so were very valuable.
SA has permanently withdrawn from Super Rugby, so RA will not be paid anything remotely close to $57m pa again. The $100m for 3 years (inc. contra, $3.33m pa) is for domestic & NZ Super only, but also includes Wallabies' matches.

The Super rights that will be sold to Europe by RA will be for much less $, cf to when they played Super in SA.

RA, despite massive declines in Ratings & crowds for Super Rugby/general decline in MSM interest (& Wallabies' games) got a domestic Rights' deal that was about the same as last time!

This bodes well for the AFL next Rights' deal (Ch.7 ends 2024, Foxtel 2022) ie there is still strength in Rights' $ (at least in Aust. domestic pro sport); & the AFL's promising new Rights' prospects also assists Tasmania's entrance into the AFL as the 19th team, c. 2025.


2. The AFL announced today players' wages will be further cut by only c. 3.5%% from 2021; & that Lists might be cut by only c. 5 players per team from 2021.
This also suggests the AFL & Clubs are fairly comfortable with the post 2020 financial situation; & should be comfortable in adding a 19th Tas. team.










3. EDIT:

My above post #2716 is incorrect.

The AFL & its 18 clubs will experience an actual total net loss of $100m for season 2020 ie not just a loss of revenue of $100m.

Hawthorn has just released its 2020 Financial Results. It suffered a loss of $2.053 m- revenues fell to $42m, cf 2019 revenues of $76m. HFC has the most pokies, & was severely affected by their covid-related closures.

https://resources.hawthornfc.com.au/aflc-haw/document/2020/11/18/ef634583-315d-47c7-9e6e-49c25f919bc7/2020-Annual-Report.pdf

Notwithstanding this, it appears the AFL & Clubs believe the losses of 2020 can be managed successfully over the next few years, with no permanent severe financial effects.

On 23.10.20, G. McLachlan said, re the 2020 loss of the AFL & the 18 Clubs "...something under $100m. It will be significantly lower...".

 

[robbieando]

RA, despite massive declines in Ratings & crowds for Super Rugby/general decline in MSM interest (& Wallabies' games) got a domestic Rights' deal that was about the same as last time

How is $57 million per year the same as $33 million per year?

Rugby Australia is getting $24 million less per year. That is not the "same" as last time regardless of how you try and spin it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

How is $57 million per year the same as $33 million per year?

Rugby Australia is getting $24 million less per year. That is not the "same" as last time regardless of how you try and spin it.

The domestic figure is the same. They lost $24 million that they were previously received from selling games overseas.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. afl.com 20.11.20

"The AFL-owned venue is set to be transformed into 'one of the best sports & entertainment destinations in the world' ".

The current DS was "...recognised recently as The Global Venue Of The Year at The Stadium Business in Manchester".

Total cost $225m; & there will be a major transformation facing Docklands Harbour.

New "state-of-the -art" female changerooms suggest the AFL is planning, eventually, for many more AFLW games at DS.

Photos included of the major changes that will make DS a 365 day (& night!) a-year venue (with a night market, night clubs, restaurants, rooftop bars, Convention Room/Art Gallery etc.- some have CBD & arena views. Similar to Soldiers Field, in Chicago). Good public views will also be created over Docklands Harbour.

This will monetise the true value of DS, located in, arguably, one of the best locations in the world (next to major train & tram stations, in the CBD)

Town Square, Night Market, more: Must-see plans for $225 million Marvel Stadium upgrade

The AFL-owned venue is set to be transformed into 'one of the best sports and entertainment destinations in the world'

www.afl.com.au

As previously stated, going to a 19 club comp. will create 11 extra H & A games pa- 198 to 209 pa (& perhaps a Final 9 or 10: increases interest, crowds, & Ratings in the season for longer, for more teams & more fans; with extra Finals).

C. Wilson, E. Mc Guire, & G. Whateley & other experts have said it is very likely there will be AFL Thur. night games every week- for the very valuable Prime Time Rights' $.
Wilson said in early 2017 that an AFL game which has an average ratings of c. 1m is worth c. $1m to the AFL.

The 11 extra games pa are very likely to be played Thur. night at DS, to maximise AFL profits etc. The 11 Tas home games are likely to be played, during the afternoon, in Tas. on Sat. or Sunday. This timeslot will replace the same Sat./Sunday Melbourne timeslot- these games will be transferred to the new Thurs. nights at DS.

Very propitious for a Tas. 19th club!




2. These are the 365 day-a-year facilities, with photos, that make Soldiers Field, arguably, one of the most successful & lucrative stadia in the world.

Chicago is often snowing/extremely cold in winter. Soldiers Field doesn't have a roof- but interestingly, when the weather is better, often has many on-field publicly-hired events.

Soldier Field

soldierfield.net

3. EDIT:

. H/Sun's J. Ralph reported today NMFC will soon announce a small profit for season 2020, & its debt- currently c. $400,000- is expected to be zero in season 2021.

. The AFL also announced it expects hubs will not be necessary in 2021, assuming covid in Aust. is under control, & good crowds allowed. The hubs cost the AFL $60m in 2020, thus the AFL & Clubs can expect to be again making profits in 2021.

. D. Noble, another Tasmanian, will become an AFL coach: NMFC. His father & 2 brothers played for Melbourne.

. Total Player Payments will be cut 9% in 2021, & AFL funding for the AFLPA cut by 1%. Club Primary Lists reduced to a minimum of 36 & maximum 38 players in 2021.

AFL announces salary and list-size cuts

www.sportsnews.com.au

 

[BringBackTorps]

More good news for the Tas.19th team bid.

According to The Age, Foxtel has initiated contact with the AFL, & is keen to renew its next Rights' deal (due to "increased competition" for the Rights)- which currently expire in 2022.

According to SBS, Foxtel is also interested in paying more for A League matches- despite the A League having abysmal ratings, with crowds & MSM interest also in a steep long term decline!
Current A League deal with Foxtel (c. $28m pa) expires in 1 year.

AFL announces 4.5billion, 7 year media deal (2025-2031 inclusive)

The answer to more Thursday night games is reducing the number of rounds to 20 and spreading these across 23 weeks. As it happens, 20 rounds (180 games) goes quite neatly into 23 weeks. Full rounds of 9 games to open and close season (2 weeks) Usual two rounds spread over 3 weeks in middle of...

www.bigfooty.com

(Go to posts # 610 & 611 for full details, & Age/SBS links).

This increasing enthusiasm by Foxtel bodes well for the AFL Rights, & likely $ increases- & a Tas. team entering c. 2025.
More $ for the 11 extra pa juicy Thurs. night Prime Time slots, & 11 extra H & A AFL games pa (198-209).

 

[telsor]

More good news for the Tas.19th team bid.

I must say I admire your ability to spin everything as a positive for a Tas team.

Less money in football...less required per club, Tas FTW!
More money in football...more available for a Tas team!

 

[Kwality]

I must say I admire your ability to spin everything as a positive for a Tas team.
Lost me too.
Less money in football...less required per club, Tas FTW!
More money in football...more available for a Tas team!

 

[Kwality]

 

[BringBackTorps]

I must say I admire your ability to spin everything as a positive for a Tas team.

Less money in football...less required per club, Tas FTW![You have left out the full context of my arguments]
More money in football...more available for a Tas team!

I have never said "less money in football" is a good thing- of course it isn't. Provide a link from me where I have said I desire a reduction of funds generated by the AFL &/or 18 Clubs.

I have written about how they spend their funds, their efficacy.
I have written that slashing wasteful Club Football Dept. spending, reducing Club List sizes etc., & reducing wasteful & overpaid AFL HQ spending is essential (& supported by experienced finance journalist A. Kohler; & M. Sheehan, & M. Lloyd etc.).

Efficient & non-wasteful spending by the AFL, & all clubs (with much lowered Salary & FD Caps) makes it much easier for a small & new clubs to be, respectively, successful & created- & both competitive over the long term. It will also assist with much more funding of GR AF.

I certainly agree with "More money in football...more available for a Tas team".

The VFL/AFL have carpetbagged Tas. elite AF for decades, causing it to become demoralised/loss of AF tribalism/loss of local elite pathways & local heroes etc.
As the AFL has directly contributed to the Tas. disaster, it must now heavily invest (for a short period- the Tas. Business case is very robust) in Tas. & grant it a licence to become the 19th Club. More funds generated by the AFL will assist the revival of Tas. AF.

Demetriou, McLachlan, Oakley, & a multitude of other MSM AFL experts agree that Tas. deserves its own team. They recognise that Tas. not having its own team is a major cause (& probably the biggest) of the decline that Tas. has suffered. It also harms AF- loss of the fabled recruitment gold mine.

Increased AFL Rights' $ (which my above Foxtel links suggest are likely) will assist the Tas. Bid, but are not essential for a Tas. 19th team; & will assist improved funding of GR AF.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I must say I admire your ability to spin everything as a positive for a Tas team.

Less money in football...less required per club, Tas FTW!
More money in football...more available for a Tas team!

Everyone admires you for being able to spin everything you post on here in the most negative way possible for a Tasmanian team

 

[telsor]

I have never said "less money in football" is a good thing- of course it isn't. Provide a link from me where I have said I desire a reduction of funds generated by the AFL &/or 18 Clubs.

I have written about how they spend their funds, their efficacy.
I have written that slashing wasteful Club Football Dept. spending, reducing Club List sizes etc., & reducing wasteful & overpaid AFL HQ spending is essential (& supported by experienced finance journalist A. Kohler; & M. Sheehan, & M. Lloyd).

Efficient & non-wasteful spending by the AFL, & all clubs (with lowered Caps) makes it much easier for a small & new clubs to be, respectively, successful & created- & both competitive over the long term. It will also assist with much more funding of GR AF.

So not 'less money in football', but rather the consequences of less money (smaller salary cap, soft cap, etc.)

Distinction without a difference really considering the clear cause/effect relationship there don't you think?

 

[telsor]

Everyone admires you for being able to spin everything you post on here in the most negative way possible for a Tasmanian team

No, I've just been repeating the same FACTS from early on. (well, I did...I haven't done as much of late....it got dull now that it's obvious that a Tas team will never happen).

Now I just pop in occasionally for the LOLs.

 

[Verdun]

No, I've just been repeating the same FACTS from early on. (well, I did...I haven't done as much of late....it got dull now that it's obvious that a Tas team will never happen).

Now I just pop in occasionally for the LOLs.

What an exciting life you must have.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

No, I've just been repeating the same FACTS from early on. (well, I did...I haven't done as much of late....it got dull now that it's obvious that a Tas team will never happen).

Now I just pop in occasionally for the LOLs.

You haven’t offered up any facts with any evidence to back them just you’re opinion on what you think might happen nothing more your the pippen of the Tasmanian thread

 

[Walshawk]

1. afl.com 20.11.20

"The AFL-owned venue is set to be transformed into 'one of the best sports & entertainment destinations in the world' ".

The current DS was "...recognised recently as The Global Venue Of The Year at The Stadium Business in Manchester".

Total cost $225m; & there will be a major transformation facing Docklands Harbour.

New "state-of-the -art" female changerooms suggest the AFL is planning, eventually, for many more AFLW games at DS.

Photos included of the major changes that will make DS a 365 day (& night!) a-year venue (with a night market, night clubs, restaurants, rooftop bars, Convention Room/Art Gallery etc.- some have CBD & arena views. Similar to Soldiers Field, in Chicago). Good public views will also be created over Docklands Harbour.

This will monetise the true value of DS, located in, arguably, one of the best locations in the world (next to major train & tram stations, in the CBD)

Town Square, Night Market, more: Must-see plans for $225 million Marvel Stadium upgrade

The AFL-owned venue is set to be transformed into 'one of the best sports and entertainment destinations in the world'

www.afl.com.au

As previously stated, going to a 19 club comp. will create 11 extra H & A games pa- 198 to 209 pa (& perhaps a Final 9 or 10: increases interest, crowds, & Ratings in the season for longer, for more teams & more fans; with extra Finals).

C. Wilson, E. Mc Guire, & G. Whateley & other experts have said it is very likely there will be AFL Thur. night games every week- for the very valuable Prime Time Rights' $.
Wilson said in early 2017 that an AFL game which has an average ratings of c. 1m is worth c. $1m to the AFL.

The 11 extra games pa are very likely to be played Thur. night at DS, to maximise AFL profits etc. The 11 Tas home games are likely to be played, during the afternoon, in Tas. on Sat. or Sunday. This timeslot will replace the same Sat./Sunday Melbourne timeslot- these games will be transferred to the new Thurs. nights at DS.

Very propitious for a Tas. 19th club!




2. These are the 365 day-a-year facilities, with photos, that make Soldiers Field, arguably, one of the most successful & lucrative stadia in the world.

Chicago is often snowing/extremely cold in winter. Soldiers Field doesn't have a roof- but interestingly, when the weather is better, often has many on-field publicly-hired events.

Soldier Field

soldierfield.net

3. EDIT:

. H/Sun's J. Ralph reported today NMFC will soon announce a small profit for season 2020, & its debt- currently c. $400,000- is expected to be zero in season 2021.

. The AFL also announced it expects hubs will not be necessary in 2021, assuming covid in Aust. is under control, & good crowds allowed. The hubs cost the AFL $60m in 2020, thus the AFL & Clubs can expect to be again making profits in 2021.

. D. Noble, another Tasmanian, will become an AFL coach: NMFC. His father & 2 brothers played for Melbourne.

. Total Player Payments will be cut 9% in 2021, & AFL funding for the AFLPA cut by 1%. Club Primary Lists reduced to a minimum of 36 & maximum 38 players in 2021.

AFL announces salary and list-size cuts

www.sportsnews.com.au

With an extra team, there will still only be nine games per round, so there is no extra weekly game. The extra games comes via more rounds due to each team having two byes. However, although there is no extra slot, with at least one team having the bye each week (some rounds three teams), it does make it easier to schedule Thursday night games without team having short breaks.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Further to my post #2738 above, re the $220m DS conversion to make it a 365 day & night entertainment etc. venue, generating significant new extra funds for the AFL.

This latest news will be very advantageous for DS & the AFL- & provide it with confidence it can comfortably account for its share of extra funding for a Tas. 19th team, Tas. elite feeder teams, & GR (probably necessary for c.10 years only).

For the last 15 years, the western & northern suburbs of Melb. have experienced the highest population growth rates in Aust.

Radio 3AW 774 26.11

B. Salt, one of Aust.'s leading demographers, said re new western & nthn. rail lines, & the future primacy (cf Flinders St) of Southern Cross Station (adjoining DS Stadium).

"Most of the growth of Melbourne, now & into the future, will actually be on the western flank...If you double the number over 20 years of people coming into the city by rail to a different station (cf Flinders St.), then that is going to have a spillover effect (ie much more vibrant commercial activity. My words & emphasis)".

3AW "That means the city will flip, with more activity centreing around Southern Cross", cf Flinders St.

Why a demographer thinks Melbourne's CBD will soon 'flip'

Melbourne’s CBD will soon “flip”, with a new gateway to the city emerging, according to a well-known demographer. Managing Director of the Demographics Group, Bernard Salt, says changing city growth patterns mean the main entry point to the city will soon be on the Docklands fringe. Melbourne...

www.3aw.com.au

EDIT:

This Footyology April 2019 article provides a good brief summary on why Tas. fully deserves to have its own 19th team.

The article did not have the benefit of the 8.2.20 Tas. Bid team Business Case (whose economic & other elements have never been publicly challenged, despite B. Godfrey's audacious public challenge for anyone to rebut it).
Tas., after the high initial elite pathway etc. & establishment costs, will not require any more AFL HQ funding that is greater than the average funding of the other smaller Melb.-based Clubs.

A team in Tasmania. Just the right thing to do | Footyology

footyology.com.au