Tasmania

[blaze036]

One guy quaesioned the montary figures quoted. he reckoned there simply werent enough seats on flights or the ferry to match the 'influx' of money

$58M over 5 games is $16m per game. Thats $1000 per head at the game The guy reckoned the transport cant bring more than 2-3,000 per game

Are you forgetting to add in the added income from tourism the game attracts (flights in/out accomdation food ect ect) as well as the extra money the people of tasmania spend when going out that adds to the economy, most people dont just buy tickets and nothing else on a day to the footy and all of this is added to the economic injection the state gets from the game(s).

 

[jethro11]

The fact is that local footy (I'm talking TSL) is holding on to it's financial viability by a hair. Tell that to our friend Andy and he'd ask you what Tasmania is.

 

[jethro11]

Tasmania are way overdue for a stand alone team. F*ck the Suns & Giants.

This

 

[Gibbke]

Dont get me wrong, id love for there to be a tasmanian team. However at present its undoubtable not viable and the futures looking bleak due to more and more tasmanians leaving for the mainland (from what ive read, dont know the official statistics). This being the case my idea is mainly focused around trying to even out the supporting bases, some tasmanians could be insulted by this but unfortunatly due to the situation the state is in thats how the cookie crumbles.

Why do u think a north v south rivalry would be a destructive force in the state?

I'm not saying "no footy", but I am definitely saying "don't be patronising". Yeah, it's a self destructive attitude for a Tasmanian to have from one point of view...I've always thought that if Tasmania treats itself like the dog licking up the scraps, then it will remain exactly that - forget about a team ever. Already, the AFL has consigned the state to regional development status (just like a Vic country league), which means all that history, "Big 4 footy states", etc, is out the window. We are simply a vehicle for limited levels of drafting, and can't justify inclusion purely because we're a regional tv centre, not a big metro market. They can afford the team, the supporter base is bigger than Port Adelaide or the Gold Coast or even Western Sydney - they just can't impress the suits. So all that's left is take the scraps or keep your pride...guess I'm old fashioned, and I know I won't be getting my wish anytime soon...!

N v S rivalry IS the 200 year history of Tasmania. Small place, small mindset. A 1 hour drive between Launceston and Devonport is a road trip - on the mainland, it's often the length of your daily drive to work. Even the football league draw down there is designed to protect footballers from having to drive 2 hours to the other end of the state. Right now, Hawthorn attracts only 13% of its regular crowds from the south. If there is a state team in the AFL, it needs to attract a membership that will buy season tickets, and if half the state won't travel...many of them will boycott the team if it's seen as belonging to the other region...all political decisions take into account possible backlash if there's no regional duplication...you just can't win...

So anything that promotes that rubbish gets my thumbs down...it needs generational change...

 

[blaze036]

I'm not saying "no footy", but I am definitely saying "don't be patronising". Yeah, it's a self destructive attitude for a Tasmanian to have from one point of view...I've always thought that if Tasmania treats itself like the dog licking up the scraps, then it will remain exactly that - forget about a team ever. Already, the AFL has consigned the state to regional development status (just like a Vic country league), which means all that history, "Big 4 footy states", etc, is out the window. We are simply a vehicle for limited levels of drafting, and can't justify inclusion purely because we're a regional tv centre, not a big metro market. They can afford the team, the supporter base is bigger than Port Adelaide or the Gold Coast or even Western Sydney - they just can't impress the suits. So all that's left is take the scraps or keep your pride...guess I'm old fashioned, and I know I won't be getting my wish anytime soon...!

Well yes in the short-medium term they can "afford" the team however the key idea is they need all teams in the afl to be self sustainable, and with footy department spending going through the roof a tasmanian team simpley will either go bankrupt, or fall behind and be non competitive due to the lack of corporate/sponserships. not sure if uve done the research when u say tassys supporter base is bigger than port adelaides, considering port have over 36 thousand members in its darkest year ever in history currently. And while yes u do have a bigger supporter base than west sydney and gold coast atm, the fact is however u wont soon as both of those regions massively increase their population and interest in the game, whilst tasmania's population is stable/decreasing (relatively). So unfortunatly unless Tasmania starts rapidly increasing (economically and population) a team their is wishful thinking, which is sad because really puts a dampener on "the national game". Start sending new australians to tasmania instead of west sydney by their tuckloads and maybe a team could be on the cards in the future hopefully.

 

[jethro11]

Fact is the AFL looks at the amount of people who could become footy fans and not the amount of footy fans that are already there. A stand alone Tasmanian team would have a good membership total at start up but wouldn't grow much in the years after. GWS has the potential to attract a massive membership base if they are successful bu wouldn't have many at start up.

 

[madmug]

Well yes in the short-medium term they can "afford" the team however the key idea is they need all teams in the afl to be self sustainable, and with footy department spending going through the roof a tasmanian team simpley will either go bankrupt, or fall behind and be non competitive due to the lack of corporate/sponserships. not sure if uve done the research when u say tassys supporter base is bigger than port adelaides, considering port have over 36 thousand members in its darkest year ever in history currently. And while yes u do have a bigger supporter base than west sydney and gold coast atm, the fact is however u wont soon as both of those regions massively increase their population and interest in the game, whilst tasmania's population is stable/decreasing (relatively). So unfortunatly unless Tasmania starts rapidly increasing (economically and population) a team their is wishful thinking, which is sad because really puts a dampener on "the national game". Start sending new australians to tasmania instead of west sydney by their tuckloads and maybe a team could be on the cards in the future hopefully.

So we are good enough to supply players to the AFL, good enough to host two AFL clubs who couldnt make it in the Victorian market, but not good enough to have our own team. I'd rather piss both Hawthorn & North Melbourne off & say stuff the Victorian game. When the AFL become mature enough to be considered a proper national competition then we would get a fair hearing. Right now its still the VFL with some tarting up around the edges. Its all about keeping the old suburban identities happy. How quaint, how pathetic.

 

[Hobgoblin]

NO they dont, Tasmanians want ANY AFL football, Hawks in Launceston has been a winner, but wait when the kangaroos play, it will be packed at bellerive as well. But we want our own team, if its good enough for EVERY other state to have at least 2 AFL teams, then surely Tasmania SHOULD have 1

Won t happen because of Launceston though. Stupid backwards thinking up that way

 

[madmug]

Won t happen because of Launceston though. Stupid backwards thinking up that way

No they are just enjoying political largesse. Most sensible people realise that to fully support a team we would need to play games in both stadiums to maximise memberships & opportunity to go to games. But It just seems that the AFL has rules for some teams/ areas for support & rules for others.

 

[Pessimistic]

Thers no doubt the hawthorn deal does bring visitors to tassie - you may say Jeff is gilding the lily a bit but the effect does exist.

Now the hwks play 4 games which 'generates nearly $60m' (Im accepting the figures for now) which justifies the government handing over $3m to the hawks - some of which is sent in tassie as well.

Hawks play 4 games and lets say a portion of the 35,000 victorian memebers attend. Mosst I know would go to just one or two tassie games. in some cases the opponents fans travel to tassie too. This isnt much because the big melbourne clubs never play there

Lets take Hawks out and insert a brand new tassie team.

They play 11 games in Tassie, 3 of which will be huge melbourne teams (including Hawthorn) 3 will be 'smaller' melboune teams and 5 will be from other states

6 of the 10 victorian teams will play there each year. now whrer hawthorn support has been sprad over 4 games, collingwood for example would have 4 times or more travelling over than hawthorn do now. Its not out of the queestion to have a 40,000 capaciity stadium, even though 20,000 tasmanians attending is a hyge poportion of the home population. whether those numbers can travel logictically is another question.

but instead of the potential travellers form the pool of 35,000 hawks members travelling, there is now a potential pool of 120,000 or more (6 melbourne teams members)

THATS how the government can justify more financial support for a team

$15m annually directly from the government to support a local team would be easily managable

 

[madmug]

Thers no doubt the hawthorn deal does bring visitors to tassie - you may say Jeff is gilding the lily a bit but the effect does exist.

Now the hwks play 4 games which 'generates nearly $60m' (Im accepting the figures for now) which justifies the government handing over $3m to the hawks - some of which is sent in tassie as well.

Hawks play 4 games and lets say a portion of the 35,000 victorian memebers attend. Mosst I know would go to just one or two tassie games. in some cases the opponents fans travel to tassie too. This isnt much because the big melbourne clubs never play there

Lets take Hawks out and insert a brand new tassie team.

They play 11 games in Tassie, 3 of which will be huge melbourne teams (including Hawthorn) 3 will be 'smaller' melboune teams and 5 will be from other states

6 of the 10 victorian teams will play there each year. now whrer hawthorn support has been sprad over 4 games, collingwood for example would have 4 times or more travelling over than hawthorn do now. Its not out of the queestion to have a 40,000 capaciity stadium, even though 20,000 tasmanians attending is a hyge poportion of the home population. whether those numbers can travel logictically is another question.

but instead of the potential travellers form the pool of 35,000 hawks members travelling, there is now a potential pool of 120,000 or more (6 melbourne teams members)

THATS how the government can justify more financial support for a team

$15m annually directly from the government to support a local team would be easily managable

I have no idea why your called pessimistic I agree with what you've said. I've discussed this issue with so many people both here & on the northern island. Many of use are just pissed off with the AFL bias. With being treated like dirt when 'others' get spoon fed. Bloody rotten.
Economic studies show it will work in Tassie. We have always been massive supporters of Aussie rules football. This islands capacity to finance a team is certainly marginal. But people forget that Tassie has a very large Diaspora, just like many other island communities over the world.
I think people might be surprised how much support a Tasmanian team just might gain. Many of our expats are the sort of people who left due to work/business opportunities. They & still others who see the total unfairness of what we are forced to put up with would look to support a Tassie team. Perhaps thats why the AFL dont want to embarrass some of its struggling suburban teams.
I'm sure that running two low cost venues plus the other natural advantages would see such a venture succeed. It may then convince some in the northern states that the AFL really is a national competition & not just a thin tissue of images (smoke & mirrors perhaps) designed for the survival of the VFL. Because THATS what many think.

 

[piesnz]

Just curious...to the Tasmanians here. If one of the struggling Vic teams fully relocated to Tassie (let's be honest, North or the Dogs), would that be good enough? Or does it have to be a genuinely Taswegian club that is formed there to gain full support?

 

[Pessimistic]

Just curious...to the Tasmanians here. If one of the struggling Vic teams fully relocated to Tassie (let's be honest, North or the Dogs), would that be good enough? Or does it have to be a genuinely Taswegian club that is formed there to gain full support?

I'm nt a taswegins but the relocation of a club would have one drawback. that club would want to play collingwood etc in melbourne. That denies the tamanian government the possibility of those clubs visiting tasmania as the 'away ' team like if a wholly tasmanian team were established

 

[madmug]

Just curious...to the Tasmanians here. If one of the struggling Vic teams fully relocated to Tassie (let's be honest, North or the Dogs), would that be good enough? Or does it have to be a genuinely Taswegian club that is formed there to gain full support?

I dont really see the point of relocating a club. Those you mention, & others are a product of the suburbs in which they formed & grew. Sending them away just prolongs the pain for the supporters, like with South Melbourne. It took years to gain any real acceptance in Sydney. What would be the point of transplanting them?
Really if the AFL were honest they should sent some of the Victorian clubs back to the VFL competition. New teams such as Tassie, a 3rd WA team & maybe Canberra or whatever would find it easier to make it work given their own identity, not someone elses.
In Tassies case, we would probably end up with some stupid relocation. That would just show the AFL's Victorian bias & arrogance. For no good reason IMO

 

[madmug]

I'm nt a taswegins but the relocation of a club would have one drawback. that club would want to play collingwood etc in melbourne. That denies the tamanian government the possibility of those clubs visiting tasmania as the 'away ' team like if a wholly tasmanian team were established

I am a Tasmanian & I see that Port play Collingwood in Adelaide, Gold Coast play them at Carrara, etc etc. I dont see any logic in saying that a Tassie team would 'want' to play Collingwood at the MCG as a 'home' game. Sorry, just dont see it.

 

[Pessimistic]

I am a Tasmanian & I see that Port play Collingwood in Adelaide, Gold Coast play them at Carrara, etc etc. I dont see any logic in saying that a Tassie team would 'want' to play Collingwood at the MCG as a 'home' game. Sorry, just dont see it.

I meant if it was a relocated victorian team they would want that - as when North nearly moved 7 games down there last year - they only intended to play the unattractive games in Hobart !

 

[sherb]

Just curious...to the Tasmanians here. If one of the struggling Vic teams fully relocated to Tassie (let's be honest, North or the Dogs), would that be good enough? Or does it have to be a genuinely Taswegian club that is formed there to gain full support?

No, it must be a genuine Tasmanian club.

Relocate a Victorian club and you are asking long-term Tasmanian supporters of other Victorian clubs to essentially start supporting the opposition.

Do you really expect all the Richmond, Essendon, Carlton, St Kilda, Collingwood, etc supporters down there (and there are thousands and thousands of them) to start supporting North Melbourne? Or Footscray?

I mean, would you start supporting North or Footscray, badged as a Tasmanian side, if you were living in Tassie? I know I wouldn't.

It would eventually turn in the long-term, but what's the point of waiting that long in an already AFL-orientated state? And what is the economic sense in doing that? You need the club to be successful sooner rather than later.

With a Tasmanian side you are asking these same supporters to back their own side without betraying their long-term allegiances to their existing club. It is the most likely way for the club to succeed. They could easily go and watch Tassie play each home game and support them. And watch their existing side on TV and watch them play live if or when they came to Tassie to play.

People point to the fact that South Melbourne were relocated to Sydney, but Sydney is nothing like Tassie in terms of AFL support - ie most people here didn't already support either the game or a (then) VFL club. So it is a different situation.

What disappoints me, as a Tasmanian, is that the people down there seem to just sit back and accept what is dished up by the AFL. When are they going to start standing up for themselves and saying that Melbourne based clubs playing down there is a second-rate solution and that they demand their own side? Where's their pride?

 

[madmug]

I meant if it was a relocated victorian team they would want that - as when North nearly moved 7 games down there last year - they only intended to play the unattractive games in Hobart !

Ok then, if they were relocated but still wanted to play some 'home' games back in Melbourne then they would be showing us here that they didnt want to be here. A sure recipe for ending up stuffed. No real attachment to their new home but not wanted anywhere else. A sure recipe for oblivion.
Do you see value in those clubs going back to the VFL?

 

[Kwality]

No they are just enjoying political largesse. Most sensible people realise that to fully support a team we would need to play games in both stadiums to maximise memberships & opportunity to go to games. But It just seems that the AFL has rules for some teams/ areas for support & rules for others.

enjoying political largesse understates the real go.
Try the Melbourne clubs are bludging on the Tassie taxpayer & using the Tassie footy fans to pump up their membership numbers because they cant put bums on seats in Melbourne other than when they play the other Melbourne clubs. They dont draw v the non Melb clubs.

The AFL are happy to bludge on the taxpayer wherever possible.

 

[g-man]

So how many more clubs are Tasmania going to have to help support or have come down here for a money grab? We've had Fitzroy, the saints, hawks, now the kangaroos and now you are suggesting the bulldogs as well. If all Tasmania is going to be is some cash cow for struggling Victorian clubs then you can all go shove the mainland football league in a very uncomfortable place. Typical mainland arrogance towards Tasmania. We're not good enough to be included fully and in our own right but our money is good enough to help your struggling clubs. Love how people who don't know one single thing about the state love telling us what is best for us. Simple fact is we aren't wanted, we're not considered big enough or important enough, just our money is.

As far as GWS is concerned, maybe it will grow support then again maybe it will fail completely, there's no guarantees that it's going to work. It's not like the swans have taken Sydney over despite years of being propped up by the AFL. I'm tired about hearing how every decision has to be about growing the game and always based on financial reasons yet people keep saying the footy fans are getting left behind. Well what about the footy fans here, people who live and breathe AFL, who buy memberships, buy merchandise, travel to the mainland to watch games, and I'm guessing Tasmanains pump as much money into the Victorian economy by travelling to watch their teams play as comes the other way. We just continue to be left out and treated like second class citizens, except for our wallets of course.

 

[sherb]

We're not good enough to be included fully and in our own right but our money is good enough to help your struggling clubs.

Indeed.

 

[sherb]

Imagine that, Hawthorn do the heavy lifting down in tasmania

Hawthorn did the hard work and were committed to begin with

As they should, given they have been paid damn well to do so. The way Hawthorn is portrayed at times in these discussions is that they have been doing the work in Tassie out of the goodness of their hearts.

have you ever thought tasmaniams prefer to have hawthorn as the team there ?

Not at all. Why would all the local Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon, St Kilda, Carlton, etc fans prefer to have Hawthorn as the team down there?

If you lived in Tassie, would you prefer Collingwood as the team down there?

 

[blaze036]

Originally Posted by g-man
We're not good enough to be included fully and in our own right but our money is good enough to help your struggling clubs.

Come on... this has nothing at all with "how good you are" its all about Tasmania will never be a self sustainable club!!!! No idea why all these tassy supporters are having a go at victorians, if tasmania could have their own team they would. Theres nothing "pathetic" about it, its just not a viable option atm and peoples passions are getting in the way of good decisions. Im sure ballarat/broome would love their own team too and there in the exact same boat as tasmania really, just not possible atm.

Yes the AFL could spend the rest of its life propping up the tasmanian team to keep up, which is what would to happen but thats such a bad thing for the game. AFL has stated every club has to be self sustainable because in the long run the AFL cant just be bailing clubs out every year with no light at the end of the tunnel

 

[madmug]

Come on... this has nothing at all with "how good you are" its all about Tasmania will never be a self sustainable club!!!! No idea why all these tassy supporters are having a go at victorians, if tasmania could have their own team they would. Theres nothing "pathetic" about it, its just not a viable option atm and peoples passions are getting in the way of good decisions. Im sure ballarat/broome would love their own team too and there in the exact same boat as tasmania really, just not possible atm.

Yes the AFL could spend the rest of its life propping up the tasmanian team to keep up, which is what would to happen but thats such a bad thing for the game. AFL has stated every club has to be self sustainable because in the long run the AFL cant just be bailing clubs out every year with no light at the end of the tunnel

Economic studies have shown it would work, I think my argument is valid, you are just mouthing the usual uninformed diatribe that comes out of Victoria time & time again, all with no research or proof of any kind, just uninformed biased clap trap. Why dont Victorians apply the same argument to North Melbourne, Footscray, Melbourne etc?? They dont cut it, but they still limp along selling games all over the place, holding ther hands out to the AFL whining about stadium deals, always excuses. I'm sorry but you are being ignorant & you are wrong.
Tasmania does have over 500k people, Ballarat has 100K Broome has 14k so yours is a silly analogy at best.
& 'if Tasmania could have their own team they would', WHAT? That comment says it all!!!
Why dont you just recognise & admit your own parochial bias. Victorians just want it their way, thats the problem. Its also the AFL's biggest weakness.

 

[bebji]

I think when people look at a team in Tasmania they look at all the money having to come from Tassie also. Why can't they get sponsors from elsewhere? I'm pretty sure Mars is not a company isolated to the Carlton area. The major sponsors can come from anywhere. Then there would be hundreds of local businesses willing to chip in.

Also when the AFL looks at the population of areas they try to look for growth. Well what's wrong with rewarding am area that already love the game. Sydney might be a hell of alot bigger but I would think Tassie would have more people who actually support footy. Pretty much all of Tasmania already follow the football, and after ten years in the competition I could see them having as many members as Collingwood.

So thinking about it, I would say Tasmania could easily manage it's own team.

Just give the state a chance, and let the locals show you how much they love their footy.