Taylor Walker Dropped...

[Cap]

baering in mind he is 20..... so he isn't going to magically learn those things in the SANFL which is why most people are getting fed up.

I wouldn't say Walker is arrogant maybe overly confident but most of the best footballers are. What is more frustrating is you look at Walkers stats agasint experience and against most of the leading forwards at the moement they stack up (at the same age of course) whilst this isn't always a good measure it is something.

As for not following instructions I think that is one of the problems people have, surely a natural forwards only instructions should be kick goals, half the problem with blokes like Walker is we try and mould them into some cookie cutter AFL footballer and don't take into account natural talents or should I say take advantage of natural talents.

but thats just how it seems from a far, hopefully in reality Walker shagged a board members daughter and has to pay the price

 

[rooboy]

That's because they had a reason to be arrogant, and they actually all had a very high work rate, especially Carey. We all want Walker to be a great player but if anyone was being objective on last weeks game they would have to admit that he doesn't chase, he makes leads for 3 steps and then gives up, he never makes repeated leads and he never makes space. He was totally shown up by Burton on work rate last week which is why everyone kept kicking to him all game, not because Craig secretly told the players to ignore Porps, Tip and Tex, I mean come on.

As for Craig hating Walker, some people seriously need to grow up. Firstly they have a selection commitee not a one man show and secondly you guys have no idea what instructions have been given to Walker that he might not be carrying out. He might be chasing kicks up the ground against coaching instructions for all we know rather than being played out of position.

Neil Craig has tried 5 youngsters in the first 5 games and elevated 3 rookies and played 2 and yet the majority of this board still accuse him of ignoring youth in our squad. There is a serious amount group mentality here that is not based on any facts, but only on blind prejudice.

I don't think the players mentioned did have brilliant work rates in their formative years. They became arrogant by doing what came natural, that is, being gifted ,natural footballers, and importantly kicking goals.

I for one, don't think that Craig hates Walker at all, but from my view he isn't letting the kid settle down and do what he does best.

It would be really great to see some flair in our team. As for the players kicking it to Burton because of his work rate, perhaps the players would be better served kicking it to Walker as he may actually kick some bloody goals unlike Burton.

 

[marvin]

That's all true but how many senior players have been missing out on a game so that we can play all these youngsters?

None.

Yes we have given some young players games but it has been because of injury only, not policy. As soon as Stevens, Symes, Bock return the kids will make way.

Exactly. And what's more, out of the debutants, Armstrong and Young were very quickly dispatched back to where they came from, and have gone from the squad of 25, and when Bock is fit, Davis will join them.

I don't know what's more depressing. That I've got no idea what the club should be doing to get out of the current mire, or that the response of dropping a young player was so predictable.

 

[Racing To Win]

There's no doubt that we've been unstable, but there's a nucleus of players that haven't changed and generally they're our better players.


15 players have played 4 all four games:

• Cook
• Danger
• Doughty
• Douglas
• Edwards
• Goodwin
• Mackay
• McLeod
• Petrenko
• Reilly
• Rutten
• Thompson
• Tippett
• Vince
• Walker

Most of these guys are best 22 with Cook and Petrenko on the fringe but that's it.


Then there's the 3 match brigade:

• Bock
• Burton
• Hentschel
• Maric
• Porpy

All best 22...add six games between Knights, VB, Stiffy, Sellar and Stevens and we've averaged out to having 18 of our best 22 at any given time, and if we can't deal with that then we were stuffed before we ever began.

It is not all about who has played and how many games. The fact that we have had so many injuries and interruptions means that half of those on the list are playing games underdone. They are fit but don't have the touch (porplyzia etc) you get until you can string a few games together. Nothing beats a good preseason and preperation and sadly we haven't had one. In effect we are playing our pre-season games now and finding touch when other clubs are fully fit and raring to go.

 

[Hodgy]

I don't think the players mentioned did have brilliant work rates in their formative years. They became arrogant by doing what came natural, that is, being gifted ,natural footballers, and importantly kicking goals.

I for one, don't think that Craig hates Walker at all, but from my view he isn't letting the kid settle down and do what he does best.

It would be really great to see some flair in our team. As for the players kicking it to Burton because of his work rate, perhaps the players would be better served kicking it to Walker as he may actually kick some bloody goals unlike Burton.

Did not see much of Dermott early on but I can guarantee that Carey was amazing. He just wanted the footy so much more than anyone else that he would sprint thirty metres just to get to any contest even if it was with the flight of the ball. However it is stretching credibility a bit to compare Walker with Carey or Brereton at this stage. All I am saying is that talent isn't enough, he needs to approach every contest as if his life depends on it, and if Craig can instill this attitude into him then he will be a much better player in the long run and maybe one day we will be comparing him to Carey, just not yet. We have seen this week with Mark Cosgrove that unless you are willing to work hard, natural talent won't be enough. Averaging 38 over 8 years with his talent on the Adelaide Oval pitch is simply not good enough and while Walker's deficiencies are different the comparison is valid as they both rely on talent and just don't work hard enough.

 

[sydney_crow]

Poor doesn't come close to describing it. He had 7 shots on Saturday and only one of them went through the big sticks. 3 of them didn't even make the distance, or went OOTF. None of the shots were from tight angles or more than 40m out. An acceptable return would have been 5.2 or 6.1. He kicked a measly 1.3. That's a long, long, way short of acceptable.

There's no point in monopolising the delivery into the F50 if you're going to butcher 86% of the opportunities the midfielders manage to generate. It's bad footy and it's demoralising for the rest of the team.

+1 to this...two weeks in a row Burton had the chance to get us off to a reasonable start by nailing multiple first quarter shots - instead he butchered them and in our current fragile state that was damaging.

 

[Wood_Duck]

You my friend are clearly a half wit. It is not all about who has played and how many games. The fact that we have had so many injuries and interruptions means that half of those on the list are playing games underdone. They are fit but don't have the touch (porplyzia etc) you get until you can string a few games together. Nothing beats a good preseason and preperation and sadly we haven't had one. In effect we are playing our pre-season games now and finding touch when other clubs are fully fit and raring to go.

Interesting. Our friend ruscy is a half wit, yet somewhere you have seen us finding touch. Its round 5, how many games would you say it should take for a team/player to find touch? The guys that had an interupted pre season didnt exactly come back to training in March with bellies full of christmas pudding. At what stage during the season are you going to stop blaming our poor pre season for the piss poor football the team is playing.

How many shit sandwiches are you prepared to eat before you decide you dont really like shit sandwiches.

 

[sydney_crow]

What is really shitting me at the moment is that NC has been very reliant on our old guard during his coaching tenure. Ricciuto, Hart, Goodwin, McLeod, Edwards, Burton... and they've all been bloody good footballers for him. They've repaid him well for his faith, done everything that could be asked of them, delivered multiple finals series and a 60% winning record.

What NC hasn't recognised is how these champions were treated by their initial coaches (Cornes, Shaw and Blight) in their first few seasons. Admittedly these guys played some SANFL footy but not much. Our coaches at the time recognised their talent, accepted that their performances would perhaps be a little inconsistent but played them week after week, even in their first or second year on our list. I'll throw in Vardy and Johnson to the list above too.

Those three coaches played a huge part in developing some of the champions of our club. Neil has been a BIG BIG beneficiary of the work of Cornes, Shaw and Blight but he hasn't recognised the sacrifices those coaches made to build the foundation he has cashed in on.

Some players repaid the faith extremely quickly (eg Hart) while others took longer to produce the results (eg McLeod) but the consistent element between all of them is that they played f___ all SANFL footy.

Some of those players were rated as absolute guns as kids and you could argue (if you can be bothered) that NC hasn't had the star power young talent to bring in. Firstly I'd dispute that, and secondly Goodwin, Edwards and Burton in particular weren't out-and-out star juniors with CHAMPION stamped all over them. They were made footballers. Developed into champions by their coaches and the environment at the club.

Picking purely on week-to-week performance rather than potential/talent means that we miss out on using the intense AFL environment to help shape the careers of our young talent. 'Pressure creates diamonds' is a favourite phrase of Graham Cornes and whilst I think he's a dimwit a lot of the time on radio, I like that particular line.

Great insights Carl...think you're spot on.

Failing to invest for the future is the biggest killer of any project/team/company

 

[Racing To Win]

Interesting. Its round 5, how many games would you say it should take for a team/player to find touch? The guys that had an interupted pre season didnt exactly come back to training in March with bellies full of christmas pudding. At what stage during the season are you going to stop blaming our poor pre season for the piss poor football the team is playing.

How many shit sandwiches are you prepared to eat before you decide you dont really like shit sandwiches.

Mate, I am not blaming our poor pre-season but injuries play a huge part in it. It is not just the fact that we had players injured throughout the preseason, but the fact that we have started the year and still have players coming in and out of our team that have not had much game time. Therefore, these players lack the touch and skill under game pressure which teams have now gained as they are a lot more settled. We have used 32 players. Say no more.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

I read 10 pages last night about angry supporters regarding Walker being dropped. Ran out of time to read the last few. Today, we are up to 23 or so. So I skipped the rest to come here and add my 2 cents worth.

I wont bother repeating the exact same views as everyone else because it seems 95% of us agree it is a stupid decision to drop Walker

so I will just sum it up by saying



SIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHH!

 

[craig crowing]

Interesting. Our friend ruscy is a half wit, yet somewhere you have seen us finding touch. Its round 5, how many games would you say it should take for a team/player to find touch? The guys that had an interupted pre season didnt exactly come back to training in March with bellies full of christmas pudding. At what stage during the season are you going to stop blaming our poor pre season for the piss poor football the team is playing.

How many shit sandwiches are you prepared to eat before you decide you dont really like shit sandwiches.

What really disturbing is we are hearing so many excuses re injuries underdone players etc , no ready replacements , gameplan fine everone loves Craigy yet as Wood Duck has put, here we are at match 5 and sure to be 0-5 and really out of finals when we thought might be in GF and cant see anything being done on the surface and not making anybody accountable is my biggest grief and then drop a player that is a real fwd who been forced into mid field in a team that cant score goals with a 32 yr old mid fielder used as main fwd.
You cant say all injuries bad luck as just putting head in sand.
We heard last year 30+ players had to earn their spot now nobody has to earn their spot except those played less than 20 games

 

[Hodgy]

What is really shitting me at the moment is that NC has been very reliant on our old guard during his coaching tenure. Ricciuto, Hart, Goodwin, McLeod, Edwards, Burton... and they've all been bloody good footballers for him. They've repaid him well for his faith, done everything that could be asked of them, delivered multiple finals series and a 60% winning record.

What NC hasn't recognised is how these champions were treated by their initial coaches (Cornes, Shaw and Blight) in their first few seasons. Admittedly these guys played some SANFL footy but not much. Our coaches at the time recognised their talent, accepted that their performances would perhaps be a little inconsistent but played them week after week, even in their first or second year on our list. I'll throw in Vardy and Johnson to the list above too.

Those three coaches played a huge part in developing some of the champions of our club. Neil has been a BIG BIG beneficiary of the work of Cornes, Shaw and Blight but he hasn't recognised the sacrifices those coaches made to build the foundation he has cashed in on.

Some players repaid the faith extremely quickly (eg Hart) while others took longer to produce the results (eg McLeod) but the consistent element between all of them is that they played f___ all SANFL footy.

Some of those players were rated as absolute guns as kids and you could argue (if you can be bothered) that NC hasn't had the star power young talent to bring in. Firstly I'd dispute that, and secondly Goodwin, Edwards and Burton in particular weren't out-and-out star juniors with CHAMPION stamped all over them. They were made footballers. Developed into champions by their coaches and the environment at the club.

Picking purely on week-to-week performance rather than potential/talent means that we miss out on using the intense AFL environment to help shape the careers of our young talent. 'Pressure creates diamonds' is a favourite phrase of Graham Cornes and whilst I think he's a dimwit a lot of the time on radio, I like that particular line.

Mate how much SANFL footy have Porps, Dangerfield, Tippett, Otten or Vince played in the last couple of years? Neil Craig picks these guys every week as well just like Roo and Hart because they obviously show him on the track and match day that they deserve to be picked. No one benefits in the long run by being given a free pass, regardless of performance, early in their career. Also from my memory Edwards was in and out of the side for ages until he really knuckled down while Roo and McLeod, like Danger and Tippett you could see their brilliance and work rate were all there, he is doing exactly what those earlier coaches did with those guys.
Also one former coach in Gary Ayres would not play young guys like Rutten and Bock at all while Craig brought them in and kept them from as soon as he took over. And don't tell me that Cornes and Shaw didn't play McDermott, McGuiness and Jars the same way that Craig plays Edwards and Goody and McLeod. It's just rose coloured glasses to look back and say that our earlier coaches backed every youngster on our list any more than our current coach.
I am happy for people to be critical of his game plan as it hasn't evolved over the last few years at all, but to suggest that he doesn't give young guys a go is just not factual.

 

[Archie87]

As ropeable and perplexed as I am still about the decision to drop Walker... something just came to me and it kind of made sense. I hope I can explain it ok. As much as I would have liked them to drop Burton who is currently taking Tex's position and put Walker back in the goal square in his rightful position as a leading full forward, with the role that Walker is CURRENTLY playing (I'm not saying it's right either, I hate it as much as anyone) i.e. a high-half forward, leading up to the wings type role, Henderson is probably better suited to that role due to his athleticism and pace.

Now, whether they should have dropped Burton, put Walker at FF and included Henderson as that half-forward, leading up the ground type is up for debate. I think that's what they should have done, as I'd much rather develop the young guy and give him a go where is his suited best. But for the role that Craig is stubbornly playing Walker in, I think Hendo is probably better suited for it.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Mate how much SANFL footy have Porps, Dangerfield, Tippett, Otten or Vince played in the last couple of years? Neil Craig picks these guys every week as well just like Roo and Hart because they obviously show him on the track and match day that they deserve to be picked.

Porps played plenty of SANFL. In fact we delisted him and sent him back there before redrafting him.
Danger wasn't here in his first year. There was no decision to make.
Otten played a heap of SANFL. A full season in fact, save for one game where Neil had him sit on the pine.
Vince played a truckload of SANFL. Made his AFL debut in Round 1 2006, then spent almost two years in the SANFL with only a handful of AFL games to show for it.

Tippett I'll agree to. We pumped games into him big time in 2008 even though his form tailed away significantly in the second half of the year. Of course 2009 was his breakout year. It was outstanding by the club to invest games in a prospective talent, would love to see more of it

No one benefits in the long run by being given a free pass, regardless of performance, early in their career.

Really? Tippett?

Also one former coach in Gary Ayres would not play young guys like Rutten and Bock at all while Craig brought them in and kept them from as soon as he took over.

Didn't mention Ayers once in my post. My criticism of Craig could equally apply to Ayers. The longer it goes the more similarities we see between the two.

And don't tell me that Cornes and Shaw didn't play McDermott, McGuiness and Jars the same way that Craig plays Edwards and Goody and McLeod. It's just rose coloured glasses to look back and say that our earlier coaches backed every youngster on our list any more than our current coach.

It has never been my suggestion to drop our champions at the expense of youngsters. Ever. It is players like Skipworth, Massie, Perrie, McGregor, Biglands, Shirley, Stevens, Doughty... that I would have liked to see make way. The ones who don't provide experience/class/leadership OR upside in the future.

 

[DJ75]

Spoke to bloke out at Norwood who is in the know.

He tells me:
Walker will train with Norwood tonight.
He will play at FF (gee really????)
He has a great attitude at Norwood and loves playing for them.

He also mentioned some thought on Crows:
Craig is attempting to run a pagans paddock type arrangement. He looked over the 'easy' goals other teams kicked against us and has attempted to get some of our own. Unfortunately we don't have the speed required to get behind other teams. Even worse, Craig is adament this is the way forward and will not change it. (i.e. expect more emptying of the forward line tonight!)
He reckons we have 3 very good marking forwards (Tippett, Burton and Walker) and the paddock is killing their strengths and needs to be removed asap.

Thought you'd all like to know...

 

[King Elvis]

Did not see much of Dermott early on but I can guarantee that Carey was amazing. He just wanted the footy so much more than anyone else that he would sprint thirty metres just to get to any contest even if it was with the flight of the ball. However it is stretching credibility a bit to compare Walker with Carey or Brereton at this stage. All I am saying is that talent isn't enough, he needs to approach every contest as if his life depends on it, and if Craig can instill this attitude into him then he will be a much better player in the long run and maybe one day we will be comparing him to Carey, just not yet. We have seen this week with Mark Cosgrove that unless you are willing to work hard, natural talent won't be enough. Averaging 38 over 8 years with his talent on the Adelaide Oval pitch is simply not good enough and while Walker's deficiencies are different the comparison is valid as they both rely on talent and just don't work hard enough.

Walker definitely has stuff to work on - but the SANFL isn't the place; and dropping him for a bullshit reason isn't helpful to anybody.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It's no wonder we need some extra speed in the forward line. When we win the ball in the midfield the forwards have to get from the wing to the top of the goal square in 2.3 seconds. Could we draft Usain?

 

[King Elvis]

I think the Pagan's Paddock thing is an attempt at a short term solution to address our current deficiences.

And if that's what we want to do, then Walker is perfect for it, and you can isolate him and DEMAND work-rate from him, and clearly illustrate if he doesn't deliver it.

And it gets Burton up on the flank/wing, where we arguably need him more at present.

 

[Tex200]

With all of this talk of "getting in behind" I can only imagine it wont be long until the Rules Committee hit us with an off side rule

 

[Huntercrow]

Although I did not see last weeks game I'm part of the 5% who agree he should be dropped.
I had hoped for a big year for Tex but so far (except against Freo) nothing to write home about, he looks slow and out of his league.
Perhaps the 9 kilos he put on over summer has affected his speed?

 

[frednerk33]

As ropeable and perplexed as I am still about the decision to drop Walker... something just came to me and it kind of made sense. I hope I can explain it ok. As much as I would have liked them to drop Burton who is currently taking Tex's position and put Walker back in the goal square in his rightful position as a leading full forward, with the role that Walker is CURRENTLY playing (I'm not saying it's right either, I hate it as much as anyone) i.e. a high-half forward, leading up to the wings type role, Henderson is probably better suited to that role due to his athleticism and pace.

Now, whether they should have dropped Burton, put Walker at FF and included Henderson as that half-forward, leading up the ground type is up for debate. I think that's what they should have done, as I'd much rather develop the young guy and give him a go where is his suited best. But for the role that Craig is stubbornly playing Walker in, I think Hendo is probably better suited for it.

Sigh.

Some people never understand the modern game or at least see what actually happens with "roles" on the field, let alone leave room for the game to pass them by.

Never more apparent than on this board.

 

[frednerk33]

Walker definitely has stuff to work on - but the SANFL isn't the place; and dropping him for a bullshit reason isn't helpful to anybody.

Lack of current form and toughness/smarts and kicking ability is b*llsh*t ? Blow me down mate, you have interesting criteria.

You'd rather us lose games whilst your emotional favourite works on deficiencies ?

Go away. SANFL IS the time-honoured and appropriate place. Glad you're not in the box.

 

[frednerk33]

He also mentioned some thought on Crows:
Craig is attempting to run a pagans paddock type arrangement. He looked over the 'easy' goals other teams kicked against us and has attempted to get some of our own. Unfortunately we don't have the speed required to get behind other teams. Even worse, Craig is adament this is the way forward and will not change it. (i.e. expect more emptying of the forward line tonight!)
He reckons we have 3 very good marking forwards (Tippett, Burton and Walker) and the paddock is killing their strengths and needs to be removed asap.

Thought you'd all like to know...

Thanks. That's why your mate is coaching an AFL team, he KNOWS what to do, just like most of us on this board.

 

[sbenno]

I actually emailed the club regarding this, and I actually got a reply!! doesn't really say much, but I'll post it here anyway:

Hi [sbenno],

Thank you for your thoughts and feedback.

I can understand your frustration, and or confusion.

The selection committee came down to the conclusion that Taylor hasn't been in great form, however he certainly isn't the only one in that category . The decision was made to bring in an in form player in Ricky Henderson and therefore one of our other forwards (all who are performing below par) had to go out. An argument could be made to drop 3-4 other forwards but in the end the selectors made the call on Taylor.

Kind regards

 

[Crow-mo]

How many shit sandwiches are you prepared to eat before you decide you dont really like shit sandwiches.

my copy right lawyer will be in touch with a writ soon