Taylor Walker Dropped...

[Alex99]

Nice goal from the birdman from outside the 50 metre line...oops have they changed that line to 34 metres Crows Dude?

How many games do we play in the stale environment of the Dome?

let’s stop being so fictitious with our comment and start remembering we play home games at AAMI stadium where we have a thing called wind and rain.

the ball carried an extra 5 to 6 meter in the indoor environment of the dome. Apples with apples.

 

[Alex99]

Unfortunately, we have backed ourself into a corner because we didn't retire any of these players last year. I don't think we can afford to lose all of Trent H, Goody, Edwards, Burton, Macca and probably Thomson in 1 years so I would consider giving Goodwin (not as captain) and Macca one more year after this, albeit reluctantly. If we lost all those players in one hit we wpould experience a massive fall - although we can't fall much further.

Na, disagree. Our recovery needs to be like a band aid. Rip it off in one go and let the healing take place. Short term pain for long term gain.

we have the players to be competitive next year, even if we lose a mass of senior guys, we just don’t have the attitude or commitment to the craft and team ethos ATM.

Send a strong message, this form is not accepted and watch the attitude change. If they keep sending players like Taylor Walker beck to the SANFL and use him as a scapegoat watch the losses get even worse as senior player accountability will be a myth.

 

[crowsup]

Unfortunately, we have backed ourself into a corner because we didn't retire any of these players last year. I don't think we can afford to lose all of Trent H, Goody, Edwards, Burton, Macca and probably Thomson in 1 years so I would consider giving Goodwin (not as captain) and Macca one more year after this, albeit reluctantly. If we lost all those players in one hit we wpould experience a massive fall - although we can't fall much further.

If we had got rid of them last year, we would have got picks in the hundreds for them. They would not have been any good, let alone ready to play now.
Most of the players (young ones) we have got now, will be ready to play next year and take over from this year's veterans. That includes the rookies that will be promoted.
Can anyone honestly say that we could have reached the heights we thought we would, after last years' result, by playing the likes of Armstrong instead of McCloud? Or Schmith instead of Goodwin? Or Sloane for Edwards? Or even Walker for Burton?
Lets be honest. The veterans are not playing well at all and still the young players' form does not allow them to be considered.

Now if, the people that are saying we should have got rid of the veterans last year, admit also that they knew last year that we would be sitting 0-5 now, then I say they are vindicated. Otherwise, STFU, because you are nothing but down hill skiers.

 

[Alex99]

If we had got rid of them last year, we would have got picks in the hundreds for them. They would not have been any good, let alone ready to play now.
Most of the players (young ones) we have got now, will be ready to play next year and take over from this year's veterans. That includes the rookies that will be promoted.
Can anyone honestly say that we could have reached the heights we thought we would, after last years' result, by playing the likes of Armstrong instead of McCloud? Or Schmith instead of Goodwin? Or Sloane for Edwards? Or even Walker for Burton?
Lets be honest. The veterans are not playing well at all and still the young players' form does not allow them to be considered.

Now if, the people that are saying we should have got rid of the veterans last year, admit also that they knew last year that we would be sitting 0-5 now, then I say they are vindicated. Otherwise, STFU, because you are nothing but down hill skiers.

i don’t have any idea what the hell you just said but – straight after the Collingwood loss last year, I’ve, long with a few others said Burton, McLeod, Goodwin and Edwards should go as we would not achieve the ultimate with them. We needed to start rebuilding last year, so yes; I’ve not trouble saying they need to be sacked right now. We need to start the rebuilding process ASAP and stop wasting time on players that have no ‘on field’ future within this footy club.

 

[crowsup]

i don’t have any idea what the hell you just said but – straight after the Collingwood loss last year, I’ve, long with a few others said Burton, McLeod, Goodwin and Edwards should go as we would not achieve the ultimate with them. We needed to start rebuilding last year, so yes; I’ve not trouble saying they need to be sacked right now. We need to start the rebuilding process ASAP and stop wasting time on players that have no ‘on field’ future within this footy club.

If you knew last year that we would not achieve anything this year with or without the veterans, then I believe you are very knowledgeable. maybe you should be working for the AFC.
What I'm annoyed at is the people that were sure before the season started, that we were a top four team and are now saying that we would be in a better position if we had sacked the veterans. That is delusional.

What I'm also saying is that having kept the veterans will not work against us in the future. And, if you cannot see that, you are not as astute as you think you are.

 

[Allefgib]

If you knew last year that we would not achieve anything this year with or without the veterans, then I believe you are very knowledgeable. maybe you should be working for the AFC.
What I'm annoyed at is the people that were sure before the season started, that we were a top four team and are now saying that we would be in a better position if we had sacked the veterans. That is delusional.

What I'm also saying is that having kept the veterans will not work against us in the future. And, if you cannot see that, you are not as astute as you think you are.

I'd put myself in the middle camp. I probably would have looked at offloading one of burton/hentschell and possibly Edwards but wasn't too concerned we didn't.

Now though - we have not been as successful as we wanted, or rather very soon we are highly probalbe to be in a position oposite to our intentions. THEN if the club doesn't take some action I will be very critical of their player management. At this stage I'm just concerned and only real issue I have with player management is the dropping of Walker given the current situations. It hints at concerning things and Craigy needs to win my faith back given all of our current situation.

I'll think you'll find most people are somewhere in the middle.

 

[Alex99]

What I'm also saying is that having kept the veterans will not work against us in the future. And, if you cannot see that, you are not as astute as you think you are.

The game plan we are using and style of football we are playing, won’t work for us either. NC is playing for keeps right now, he’s not looking towards the future, and he’s looking for automatic gratification right now.
The only 2 players I will concede that have improved under senior player leader ship would be Bernie Vince and David Mackay.

Dangerfield, walker, Otten, Davis, Cook, Douglas, and Petrenko are all playing out of position because NC wants and needs automatic results. They have not shown any level of improvement in the position where they have maximum potential.

Dangerfield is going to be a midfield, but very really plays in the midfield; Walker is a full forward but plays on the half forward flank/wing because we clear out the forward line. Otten was a defender but by all and sundry, his best position is a midfielder. Its for NC automatic gratification.

Keeping the senior guys has hurt the long term development of theses players. We were never going to win the premiership this year and putting these guys in there position of maximum potential will quicken up the learning process and get us back to the top 4 quicker than keeping the senior guys.

 

[Allefgib]

The game plan we are using and style of football we are playing, won’t work for us either. NC is playing for keeps right now, he’s not looking towards the future, and he’s looking for automatic gratification right now.
The only 2 players I will concede that have improved under senior player leader ship would be Bernie Vince and David Mackay.

Dangerfield, walker, Otten, Davis, Cook, Douglas, and Petrenko are all playing out of position because NC wants and needs automatic results. They have not shown any level of improvement in the position where they have maximum potential.

Dangerfield is going to be a midfield, but very really plays in the midfield; Walker is a full forward but plays on the half forward flank/wing because we clear out the forward line. Otten was a defender but by all and sundry, his best position is a midfielder. Its for NC automatic gratification.

Keeping the senior guys has hurt the long term development of theses players. We were never going to win the premiership this year and putting these guys in there position of maximum potential will quicken up the learning process and get us back to the top 4 quicker than keeping the senior guys.

Disagree on Otten sorry mate. Macca/Goody/Roo all played off HBF and I actually think Paddy could do with some time there as well. Perfect place to develop a future mid-fielder as many clubs, including ours, has successfully shown. I'm also happy with Davis.. and not sure what you'd expect differently for Cook?

Having said that.. Walker handling has been very very questionable IMO as well.

 

[SydCrow]

Power forward Taylor Walker was dropped, but Craig said his omission was more about match-ups than his mediocre form

end thread

 

[Macjoe]

Nice goal from the birdman from outside the 50 metre line...oops have they changed that line to 34 metres Crows Dude?

Yeah, I noticed that - even granting crows98' "indoor stadium factor" still a 45 m kick at Footy Park. Mind you, I do think Burton will finish up one way or the other at the end of the year.

So was Marty Mattner and look where he is playing now.

Contracts are worth nothing. People get sacked, paid out and traded under contract all the time. Stop being so naive to think differently.

What was being suggested by the poster AndrewJo is that Taylor Walker wants to stay in Adelaide (not that I know whether that is true or not, although I hope so). If he wants to stay his contract is relevent.

Mattner asked to be traded, quite different.

Possible, I suppose that the player management committee might decide to trade him out even if he wants to stay, but would be an about face by the PMC. Wasn't Wellman the last Adelaide player to be traded unwillingly back in 1996? (Wellman to Essendon, Salmon to Hawthorn and Jarman to Adelaide, plus assorted associated picks and players). In fact, it doesn't seem to happen very much at all, nowdays. Most trades seem to be by request, or at least with consent.

 

[toddflanders]

at the melb auction last night, bernie payed $800 to have a kick with tex...

 

[Archie87]

end thread

Admittedly, that has been said by the club but Phil Harper before the game was going on about his poor form so it must have been a bit of both. Still don't like the excuse of "match ups" anyway... play Walker as the leading forward he is meant to be, drop Burton and bring Henderson in to play on the HF who is a faster, more accurate, less selfish version of Burton. Walker doesn't need lightning pace, he has footy smarts and uses those smarts to make good leads and break away from his opponent.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

end thread

So, if Walker had kicked 6 goals the week before he still would have been dropped then?

Of course not. He was dropped because NC was unhappy with his form. He didn't say that publicly because he knew how it would be received, given that every player who has pulled on the guernsey this season has been utter shit for every second of every game.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

IMO a massive over reaction to Taylor being dropped

Yes Taylor is a massive talent however I recall watching two weeks in a row and I was thinking that this lad needs a spell in the sanfl, not to learn his craft but to give him another size 10 kick in the ass

The reason I felt this way was because I felt that Taylor was not doing the non negotiables and he was bordering ob being soft and lazy

People also need to stop combining the issues of the selection of our veterans and the dropping of Taylor

Re our Veterans, I certainly agree with most posters and that is based on form Edwards, Doughty and Burton need to be put under selection pressure, this is a form issue.

However my concern with Walker is not so much his form or talent, my concern is that I do not want Taylor to be another rediculously talented player that never reaches their potential because they were lazy and if this means dropping him early in his career and giving him a kick up the ass now and the club telling us because it is due to match ups, well so be it.

I also dont buy the excuse its because he is playing out of position, c'mon lets not take the easy option and send him to FF, he is gifted enough to play up the ground, however this means he needs to lift his work rate and get involved

Talent alone does not make you a champion player, want, desire and work ethic ensures that a player reaches their optimal talent, Walker needs to seriously work on the latter and when he does he will optimise his rich gifts

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

He's been dropped three times now, in a career that is only what, 17 or 18 games? Clearly the first two size 10s up the backside didn't work. How is a third going to make any difference?

Up forward one week... running through the midfield the week after... back to the Redlegs the game after that... maybe another stint in the AFL to come... that'll teach him to be consistent.

 

[crowsup]

IMO a massive over reaction to Taylor being dropped

Yes Taylor is a massive talent however I recall watching two weeks in a row and I was thinking that this lad needs a spell in the sanfl, not to learn his craft but to give him another size 10 kick in the ass

The reason I felt this way was because I felt that Taylor was not doing the non negotiables and he was bordering ob being soft and lazy

People also need to stop combining the issues of the selection of our veterans and the dropping of Taylor

Re our Veterans, I certainly agree with most posters and that is based on form Edwards, Doughty and Burton need to be put under selection pressure, this is a form issue.

However my concern with Walker is not so much his form or talent, my concern is that I do not want Taylor to be another rediculously talented player that never reaches their potential because they were lazy and if this means dropping him early in his career and giving him a kick up the ass now and the club telling us because it is due to match ups, well so be it.

I also dont buy the excuse its because he is playing out of position, c'mon lets not take the easy option and send him to FF, he is gifted enough to play up the ground, however this means he needs to lift his work rate and get involved

Talent alone does not make you a champion player, want, desire and work ethic ensures that a player reaches their optimal talent, Walker needs to seriously work on the latter and when he does he will optimise his rich gifts

YOU do not belong here. You make too much sense

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

He's been dropped three times now, in a career that is only what, 17 or 18 games? Clearly the first two size 10s up the backside didn't work. How is a third going to make any difference?

Up forward one week... running through the midfield the week after... back to the Redlegs the game after that... maybe another stint in the AFL to come... that'll teach him to be consistent.

If you recall Roughead's first 2-3 years he too went through the same cycles

he was in one week and out the next, playing ruck one week, CHF the next and FF the following week

As we all know Taylor has enormous talent but talent alone wont get him there, add work effort and desire and we have a champion player in the making

I love Walker and I have been critical of Craigy in so many areas however Im backing NC on this matter

I dont want a talented lazy FF, I want a hard working forward that is going to smash the opposition with his talent and work rate

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If you recall Roughead's first 2-3 years he too went through the same cycles

he was in one week and out the next, playing ruck one week, CHF the next and FF the following week

Roughead in his first three seasons at Hawthorn played 58 out of a possible 69 games! Walker, now in his third season, has played 18 out of a possible 52 games and isn't in the team at the moment.

 

[Vader]

Roughead in his first three seasons at Hawthorn played 58 out of a possible 69 games! Walker, now in his third season, has played 18 out of a possible 52 games and isn't in the team at the moment.

In a completely rubbish side, versus our team which has contested the finals in every year that Walker has been on the list. Apples & oranges.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

In a completely rubbish side, versus our team which has contested the finals in every year that Walker has been on the list. Apples & oranges.

It isn't though. You and others often spout this when discussing young players and say that a finals push is no time to bring in youngsters. Have a glance through Collingwood's last few years and whether they have been reluctant to bring in young players just because they are in the top eight or top four race. They debuted 10 players one season and still made the finals! And, surprise surprise, they are around the mark again this season and we've fallen off the radar.

Our reluctance to play Walker has left him a season behind where he could be and, what's more, the 'advantage' of not stuffing up our team with a raw, inconsistent kid the last few seasons has netted us a benefit of exactly ZERO.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Putting games into decent young players must take precedence now.

Sellar, Davis and Walker must play every game they are available.

Raw talent such as Cook, Henderson, Jaensch must also be persisted with.

If Davis gets dropped for Bock/Stevens i will tear out the nut that was left after i tore out the right in lieu of the Walker disgrace.

 

[Vader]

It isn't though. You and others often spout this when discussing young players and say that a finals push is no time to bring in youngsters. Have a glance through Collingwood's last few years and whether they have been reluctant to bring in young players just because they are in the top eight or top four race. They debuted 10 players one season and still made the finals! And, surprise surprise, they are around the mark again this season and we've fallen off the radar.

Our reluctance to play Walker has left him a season behind where he could be and, what's more, the 'advantage' of not stuffing up our team with a raw, inconsistent kid the last few seasons has netted us a benefit of exactly ZERO.

Fine, then compare his development with those of the kids at Collingwood. I'm happy to accept that they are our peers and that this is an acceptable comparison.

That said, Mick Malthouse has no more sentimentality about him than Craig does. He's more willing to give them a go early, but if/when they fail to deliver then they are packed off back to the VFL in double quick time - just like happened to Walker last year. Collingwood's youngsters remain in the team while they are performing, those who aren't get dropped. Walker hasn't performed and would have met the same fate at the Pies as he has with Adelaide.

However, Malthouse probably wouldn't have insisted on playing a natural FF on the half back flank!

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

That said, Mick Malthouse has no more sentimentality about him than Craig does. He's more willing to give them a go early, but if/when they fail to deliver then they are packed off back to the VFL in double quick time - just like happened to Walker last year. Collingwood's youngsters remain in the team while they are performing, those who aren't get dropped. Walker hasn't performed and would have met the same fate at the Pies as he has with Adelaide.

MM is more willing to give a kid a crack early on if he impresses in the VFL but you're right, his kids aren't in for the long haul unless they show something he likes. But if they get dropped it is usually another kid who replaces them!

Also there's the difference between a young player being able to produce consistent performances as a midfielder/defender compared to as a forward, something I don't think Craig acknowledges at all.

With Craig's stated aim to be competitive and make the finals every season it makes it more important to introduce young players throughout your campaigns. Otherwise you get a few years down the track and it's OMG where are all our good players?... hello 2010.

Whilst Malthouse and Craig could both be characterised as dour, disciplined, old school coaches who didn't play with much flair themselves, Malthouse has been able to keep an element of flair to Collingwood's game and manage some of their inconsistent/flashy types (Medhurst, Didak, Thomas, Davis). Again, something I don't think Craig has the same feel for and one of the reason I worry that Walker is being mis-handled.

 

[dylan123]

Did Walker play today/yesterday? If so, how did he go?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Did Walker play today/yesterday? If so, how did he go?

Tonight I think