Opinion Team of the Century

[Wild Bill]

Looks like the TOTC is getting a makeover from the Herald Sun. So please list your in's and out's since it was done in 1996.

Here is the original team:

Backs: Bernie Smith Stephen Silvagni John Nicholls
Half Backs: Bruce Doull Ted Whitten Kevin Murray
Centre: Francis Bourke Ian Stewart Keith Greig
Half Forwards: Alex Jesaulenko Royce Hart Dick Reynolds
Forwards: Leigh Matthews John Coleman Haydn Bunton
Rucks: Graham Farmer Ron Barassi Bob Skilton

Inter: Gary Ablett Snr Jack Dyer Greg Williams

Coach: Norm Smith

My Changes:

Carey to replace Hart at CHF
Lockett to replace Coleman at FF
Scarlett to replace Smith in the BP
Gary Ablett Jnr to replace Williams and starting rover. Barrassi to the wing and Bourke on the bench.

My new team:

Backs: Matthew Scarlett Stephen Silvagni John Nicholls
Half Backs: Bruce Doull Ted Whitten Kevin Murray
Centre: Ron Barassi Ian Stewart Keith Greig
Half Forwards: Alex Jesaulenko Wayne Carey Dick Reynolds
Forwards: Leigh Matthews Tony Lockett Haydn Bunton
Rucks: Graham Farmer Gary Ablett Jnr Bob Skilton

Inter: Gary Ablett Snr Jack Dyer Francis Bourke

Coach: Norm Smith

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I would only look at players who were still in their careers or who have started playing since the original side was named. I'm only assuming that Ken Farmer, Barry Robran and Stephen Michael and the like were already looked at and considered.

Backs : Bernie Smith Stephen Silvagni Matthew Scarlett
Half Backs : Bruce Doull Ted Whitten Corey Enright. (I've only left Teddy in because I can't think of anyone else. Any dominant CHB from the WAFL/SANFL anyone?)
Centre : Ian Stewart Greg Williams Keith Greig
Half Forwards : Gary Ablett Snr Wayne Carey Dick Reynolds
Forwards : Leigh Matthews Jason Dunstall Haydn Bunton Snr
Rucks : Polly Farmer Chris Judd Bob Skilton
Interchange : Jack Dyer Ron Barassi Gary Ablett Jnr

Ins : Scarlett, Enright, Carey, Dunstall, Judd, Ablett Jnr
Outs : Nicholls, Murray, Hart, Bourke, Jesaulenko, Coleman

 

[Blind Turn]

I would only look at players who were still in their careers or who have started playing since the original side was named. I'm only assuming that Ken Farmer, Barry Robran and Stephen Michael and the like were already looked at and considered.

Backs : Bernie Smith Stephen Silvagni Matthew Scarlett
Half Backs : Bruce Doull Ted Whitten Corey Enright. (I've only left Teddy in because I can't think of anyone else. Any dominant CHB from the WAFL/SANFL anyone?)
Centre : Ian Stewart Greg Williams Keith Greig
Half Forwards : Gary Ablett Snr Wayne Carey Dick Reynolds
Forwards : Leigh Matthews Jason Dunstall Haydn Bunton Snr
Rucks : Polly Farmer Chris Judd Bob Skilton
Interchange : Jack Dyer Ron Barassi Gary Ablett Jnr

Ins : Scarlett, Enright, Carey, Dunstall, Judd, Ablett Jnr
Outs : Nicholls, Murray, Hart, Bourke, Jesaulenko, Coleman

Enright has gone from terribly underrated to terribly overrated in the blink of an eye. Has been a great player but, of the modern players, I would slot any of McLeod, Roos, McKenna, Archer, Wanganeen as HB before him. He was gifted an AA guernsey last year too.
If he played in a less successful era with Ian Nankerkervis they'd be considered equals.
Lockett, Carey and Ablett Jr are all definite inclusions for mine. If Silvagni deserves a spot then so too does Scarlett. Dunstall, Hird, Voss would be next in my reckoning although it would be worth considering another small in defense in which case McLeod would be considered.
Judd has too many cons to be ahead of others. The man-love for Judd in the media has distorted objective views of him.

 

[Engimal]

I would only look at players who were still in their careers or who have started playing since the original side was named. I'm only assuming that Ken Farmer, Barry Robran and Stephen Michael and the like were already looked at and considered.

Backs : Bernie Smith Stephen Silvagni Matthew Scarlett
Half Backs : Bruce Doull Ted Whitten Corey Enright. (I've only left Teddy in because I can't think of anyone else. Any dominant CHB from the WAFL/SANFL anyone?)
Centre : Ian Stewart Greg Williams Keith Greig
Half Forwards : Gary Ablett Snr Wayne Carey Dick Reynolds
Forwards : Leigh Matthews Jason Dunstall Haydn Bunton Snr
Rucks : Polly Farmer Chris Judd Bob Skilton
Interchange : Jack Dyer Ron Barassi Gary Ablett Jnr

Ins : Scarlett, Enright, Carey, Dunstall, Judd, Ablett Jnr
Outs : Nicholls, Murray, Hart, Bourke, Jesaulenko, Coleman

Enright's a bit iffy. He's good, but is he really the best half back flank of the century? Also, I'd switch Ablett Jnr and Judd.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Enright's a bit iffy. He's good, but is he really the best half back flank of the century? Also, I'd switch Ablett Jnr and Judd.

I though of either Enright or McKenna.

Enright 5 AAs and twice club B&F in premiership years swayed it for me.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Enright has gone from terribly underrated to terribly overrated in the blink of an eye. Has been a great player but, of the modern players, I would slot any of McLeod, Roos, McKenna, Archer, Wanganeen as HB before him. He was gifted an AA guernsey last year too.
If he played in a less successful era with Ian Nankerkervis they'd be considered equals.
Lockett, Carey and Ablett Jr are all definite inclusions for mine. If Silvagni deserves a spot then so too does Scarlett. Dunstall, Hird, Voss would be next in my reckoning although it would be worth considering another small in defense in which case McLeod would be considered.
Judd has too many cons to be ahead of others. The man-love for Judd in the media has distorted objective views of him.

Was McLeod really a defender though in the true sense of the word, there's a difference between running off half back and being a defender too? Roos played taller and loose, McKenna see above Archer played tall and I was never a Wanganeen fan due to questionable aspects that I use to see in his game.

Enright is a much better defender than what Nankervis was, I saw a fair bit of his career.

 

[kade]

Wayne carey acknowledges that Jason dunstall is the best player he has seen. If you replace coleman with anyone it would be him

 

[The Blue Baggers]

alot of "experts" would replace hart with carey ... that would be wrong

maybe lockett for coleman ... always thought coleman was lucky to be included in front of gordan coventry

you could also make arguments for scarlett or ablett jnr from the last 20 year ...

there is one extra on the bench these days so you can just add one without dropping anyone

 

[worbod]

Nobody as yet making a definite claim for a Collingwood player to be included.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Nobody as yet making a definite claim for a Collingwood player to be included.

if they could not get a player (or coach) from their dominate era in the 1930's mchale, coventry's, colliers, regan .... or bob rose from the 50's

doubt they will have one picked now ..... they have had no one individual to that level in the last 50 years

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Coleman's been described as the best player seen by many people.

Only Ablett and Carey would get in, in my opinion.

 

[Hodgepodge]

I though of either Enright or McKenna.

Enright 5 AAs and twice club B&F in premiership years swayed it for me.

Twice club BnF . . . that's cute. Kevin Murray won 9 of them, and a Brownlow. Also 24 Vic guernseys. There's no way he's getting switched out for Corey Enright, lol.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Twice club BnF . . . that's cute. Kevin Murray won 9 of them, and a Brownlow. Also 24 Vic guernseys. There's no way he's getting switched out for Corey Enright, lol.

sometimes b&f can be misleading ... that said it would be wrong for enright to replace kevin murray

 

[Engimal]

I can only see room for Carey and Ablett Snr, to be honest. It's pretty widely seen than the three greatest of all time are Matthews, Carey and Ablett Snr. I'd switch Hart with Carey, with no slight on Hart at all. What about Coleman for Ablett? Admittedly, I don't know much about Coleman aside from his impressive average of goals per game.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Twice club BnF . . . that's cute. Kevin Murray won 9 of them, and a Brownlow. Also 24 Vic guernseys. There's no way he's getting switched out for Corey Enright, lol.

9 B&Fs and he played in more losses than anyone else in the history of the game. Do you think he had as much opposition as someone like Matthews winning those B&Fs?

You can't throw out the Big V guernseys argument against current players.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I can only see room for Carey and Ablett Snr, to be honest. It's pretty widely seen than the three greatest of all time are Matthews, Carey and Ablett Snr. I'd switch Hart with Carey, with no slight on Hart at all. What about Coleman for Ablett? Admittedly, I don't know much about Coleman aside from his impressive average of goals per game.

Ablett was a better player before his permanent switch to a stay at home ff. Definitely hff or even wing.

 

[Blind Turn]

Was McLeod really a defender though in the true sense of the word, there's a difference between running off half back and being a defender too? Roos played taller and loose, McKenna see above Archer played tall and I was never a Wanganeen fan due to questionable aspects that I use to see in his game.

Enright is a much better defender than what Nankervis was, I saw a fair bit of his career.

Does selection on a HBF necessarily mean you have to be a defender? Seriously. In modern footy HB is the springboard for attack and surely needs to be recognised in a best-of team. Roos and then McLeod pioneered this form of attack. It is also largely forgotten that Roos began as a marking defensive CHB who evolved into an attacking flanker. And he could kick goals as a forward (versatility is a quality that should be recognised more). Archer played tall and small as did McKenna. And Wanganeen was a star, he was versatile, and he was courageous. His Port career as a non-defender elevated him further imo. Enright is a solid dependable defender who can create attack from defense. Payers like Wanganeen and McLeod exploded from defense, exciting and inspiring teammates. They are the players I'd prefer off HB.

 

[Blind Turn]

Looking at the original team, I seriously question the merit of having Nicholls in the team especially in a back pocket. If anything, Scarlett should take his spot and another small defender should take Smith's spot. Even Fletcher, who plays that role as well as anyone would be a better selection there. Does Big Nick get a token spot in a pocket because they need to squeeze him in somewhere? I'd squeeze him out to ensure you can squeeze Coleman in on the bench to accommodate Lockett.

 

[kade]

Looking at the original team, I seriously question the merit of having Nicholls in the team especially in a back pocket. If anything, Scarlett should take his spot and another small defender should take Smith's spot. Even Fletcher, who plays that role as well as anyone would be a better selection there. Does Big Nick get a token spot in a pocket because they need to squeeze him in somewhere? I'd squeeze him out to ensure you can squeeze Coleman in on the bench to accommodate Lockett.

Tell me, what was bernie smith like as a player?

 

[Hodgepodge]

9 B&Fs and he played in more losses than anyone else in the history of the game.

So? I'd say there was a reason that the Brisbane BnF is named after him as well. Sorry, Corey Enright is as nothing compared to Kevin Murray . . .

Do you think he had as much opposition as someone like Matthews winning those B&Fs?

He had some fair competition, some Fitzroy team of the century members including John Murphy and Garry Wilson . . .

 

[Blind Turn]

Tell me, what was bernie smith like as a player?

Tell me, what is it about the record and 'legend' of Smith that is so compelling to have him in ahead of other credentialed defenders of the modern era? He'd have wanted to have been some sort of player to be ahead of McLeod, Wanganeen, Johnson and Enright. I perhaps might have been better using the word 'could' as opposed to 'should'.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Does selection on a HBF necessarily mean you have to be a defender? Seriously. In modern footy HB is the springboard for attack and surely needs to be recognised in a best-of team. Roos and then McLeod pioneered this form of attack. It is also largely forgotten that Roos began as a marking defensive CHB who evolved into an attacking flanker. And he could kick goals as a forward (versatility is a quality that should be recognised more). Archer played tall and small as did McKenna. And Wanganeen was a star, he was versatile, and he was courageous. His Port career as a non-defender elevated him further imo. Enright is a solid dependable defender who can create attack from defense. Payers like Wanganeen and McLeod exploded from defense, exciting and inspiring teammates. They are the players I'd prefer off HB.

I would say yes. They're not being picked to play an actual game, it's not the All Australian team where they pidgeon hole midfielders into unfamiliar positions just to get them into the side.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Tell me, what is it about the record and 'legend' of Smith that is so compelling to have him in ahead of other credentialed defenders of the modern era? He'd have wanted to have been some sort of player to be ahead of McLeod, Wanganeen, Johnson and Enright. I perhaps might have been better using the word 'could' as opposed to 'should'.

Well he did win the Brownlow playing out of the back pocket, can't think of too many others that have done that.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So? I'd say there was a reason that the Brisbane BnF is named after him as well. Sorry, Corey Enright is as nothing compared to Kevin Murray . . .



He had some fair competition, some Fitzroy team of the century members including John Murphy and Garry Wilson . . .

lol, Garry Wilson played his first full season 3 years after Murray won his last B&F, by which time Murray was 32 years of age and Murphy started in '67 when Murray was 29 and had already won 7 B&Fs, try again. His last 2 he won in '68 and '69 when Murphy was just starting out.

1956 Won 7 games
1958 Won 12 games, lost their elimination final
1960 Won 14 games, lost both finals, out in straight sets in the finals
1961 Won 10 games and had a draw to miss the finals by half a game
1962 Won 5 games and finished third last.
1963 Won 1 game, wooden spoon. (beat eventual premiers Geelong in their only win, Murray didn't play)
1964 Didn't win a game for the season.
1968 Won 4 games, second last
1969 Won 7 games, third last.

He won 6 of his B&Fs when the club won 24 out of a possible 112 games.

I'm surprised that you haven't pulled me up yet on replacing Coleman with Dunstall instead of Lockett or Hudson.

 

[Bobby_]

What about Coleman for Ablett?

You could also make a case Ablett for Jesaulenko in that HFF position as one bloke averaged 16½ disposals, 6 marks, 3.6 goals in 161 games opposed to the other who wasn't quite as brilliant (offensively).