Opinion Team of the Century

[Blind Turn]

I would say yes. They're not being picked to play an actual game, it's not the All Australian team where they pidgeon hole midfielders into unfamiliar positions just to get them into the side.

The difference being that those players I have mentioned all played some of their best footy off HB and probably some of the most revolutionary defensive play in the games history. Attack off HB was a nodal moment in the history of our game. There has been no 'pigeon-holing of midfielders' as you put it. Nicholls in a BP on the other hand...

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Looking at the original team, I seriously question the merit of having Nicholls in the team especially in a back pocket. If anything, Scarlett should take his spot and another small defender should take Smith's spot. Even Fletcher, who plays that role as well as anyone would be a better selection there. Does Big Nick get a token spot in a pocket because they need to squeeze him in somewhere? I'd squeeze him out to ensure you can squeeze Coleman in on the bench to accommodate Lockett.

in yesteryear teams played 4 rucks ... 1st ruck, 2nd ruck (ruck rover), forward pocket, back pocket

barassi was probably the first ruck rover / mid as we know it today

nicholls was picked as the second ruck

jack dyer who was effectively the third ruck on the bench is smaller in height than chris judd

 

[The Blue Baggers]

You could also make a case Ablett for Jesaulenko in that HFF position as one bloke averaged 16½ disposals, 6 marks, 3.6 goals in 161 games opposed to the other who wasn't quite as brilliant (offensively).

wash your mouth out ... jesaulenko is a lock the greatest most skilled player of his era

ablett snr was picked in the original team on the bench

thought baldock was unlucky but he played exclusively as a CHF and that put him against hart

 

[Blind Turn]

Well he did win the Brownlow playing out of the back pocket, can't think of too many others that have done that.

Wanganeen?
And McLeod would've been a worthy winner when playing out of the backline.
Brad Hardie won a Brownlow and he wouldn't even come up in discussing this team... other than to make a point about how far off selection he'd be...

 

[Wild Bill]

They came up with:

In - Carey, GAJ, Lockett and Madden.

Out - Bunton, Dyer and Nicholls.

Added a 4th to the bench.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

They came up with:

In - Carey, GAJ, Lockett and Madden.

Out - Bunton, Dyer and Nicholls.

Added a 4th to the bench.

madden had finished his career by the time the original team was picked ...

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

madden had finished his career by the time the original team was picked ...

Yeah, that's strange, they had the opportunity to pick him the first time.

 

[Surkin]

Carey and GAJ only walk up starters since the side was picked. Anyone else is debatable.

 

[Donakebab]

Three inaugural hall of fame legends dropped from the side. I'd be dropping quite a few others before kicking out Bunton Snr.

 

[Blind Turn]

They came up with:

In - Carey, GAJ, Lockett and Madden.

Out - Bunton, Dyer and Nicholls.

Added a 4th to the bench.

Really surprised Madden was selected, not because I don't believe he deserves it, but because I thought it was pretty much cemented in footy folklore/psyche that Farmer and Nicholls are the best 2 ruckmen ever, fullstop. Sometimes, when reflecting back on a career, you can assess more objectively on a player's career. Madden was not only a technically brilliant and athletic ruckman but also a damaging forward. Kudos to the selectors for stepping outside the generally accepted opinion.
The other surprise is Bunton's omission as I thought he was one of the historically untouchable players.

 

[Wild Bill]

Really surprised Madden was selected, not because I don't believe he deserves it, but because I thought it was pretty much cemented in footy folklore/psyche that Farmer and Nicholls are the best 2 ruckmen ever, fullstop. Sometimes, when reflecting back on a career, you can assess more objectively on a player's career. Madden was not only a technically brilliant and athletic ruckman but also a damaging forward. Kudos to the selectors for stepping outside the generally accepted opinion.
The other surprise is Bunton's omission as I thought he was one of the historically untouchable players.

Good points. Will be interesting to see how Cox is rated at the end of his career. He like Madden dominated the comp for 10 years.

 

[Hodgepodge]

lol, Garry Wilson played his first full season 3 years after Murray won his last B&F

So? He's still a mitigating factor on the number of BnFs.

There are other team of the century members who played with Murray as well. Norm Brown, Harvey Merrigan, Warwick Irwin.

Kevin Murray is also captain of the Team of the Century. I doubt Enright will ever be considered for this honour.

He won 6 of his B&Fs when the club won 24 out of a possible 112 games.

Zero relevance.

I'm surprised that you haven't pulled me up yet on replacing Coleman with Dunstall instead of Lockett or Hudson.

Dunstall is third in the all-time goals kicked . . . you could definitely at least make a case for someone like that.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So? He's still a mitigating factor on the number of BnFs.

There are other team of the century members who played with Murray as well. Norm Brown, Harvey Merrigan, Warwick Irwin.

Kevin Murray is also captain of the Team of the Century. I doubt Enright will ever be considered for this honour.



Zero relevance.



Dunstall is third in the all-time goals kicked . . . you could definitely at least make a case for someone like that.

Out of the 5 alternates you've put up, I'll give you Norm Brown, he and Murray shared every b&f in the 60s between them. Warwick Irwin started after Murray had won all of his b&fs. Irwin won his only b&f the year after Murray had retired as a 36 year old. Harvey Merrigan played his first full season the year after Murray had won his last b&f. Merrigan won is only b&f the year that Murray retired.

Keep digging, I'm sure you'll come up with someone else apart from Brown. All the rest I remember watching them when I was a kid through until I was a teenager. I'm pretty sure I've still got Merrigan's, Irwin's and Wilson's, Scanlens footy cards somewhere. I may even have Irwin's Collingwood card too. I remember too watching Murphy play at least one game for all 3 clubs.

 

[Bobby_]

wash your mouth out ... jesaulenko is a lock the greatest most skilled player of his era

ablett snr was picked in the original team on the bench

thought baldock was unlucky but he played exclusively as a CHF and that put him against hart

never saw Jesa play, would have loved to see more footage from his earlier years but like most video in those days, it's all lost forever unfortunately.
Baldock I agree with too but as you say, Hart is as much of a lock as what Jesa is. People who watched his entire career speak of his brilliance in the air which was unparalleled for a long period of time and with 2 goals per game. . .highlights his consistency as CHF in arguably the most trying position on the ground.

I thought Baldock also played on the ball rotating between the two positions?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Warwick Irwin started after Murray had won all of his b&fs.

Um, so? He was beaten to some of those BnFs by other team of the century members, including John Murphy, Garry Wilson and Harvey Merrigan. This is no shame of course, Murray was well into his 30s by then.

Irwin won his only b&f the year after Murray had retired as a 36 year old. Harvey Merrigan played his first full season the year after Murray had won his last b&f. Merrigan won is only b&f the year that Murray retired.

Pulling out random facts isn't going to cut it here, at least hint at some sort of relevance. It's easy to see why Irwin and others struggled to win a BnF until Murray retired, he was contending with Wilson, murray, Murphy, et. al for this club award. He remains a TOTC member nonetheless.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Um, so? He was beaten to some of those BnFs by other team of the century members, including John Murphy, Garry Wilson and Harvey Merrigan. This is no shame of course, Murray was well into his 30s by then.



Pulling out random facts isn't going to cut it here, at least hint at some sort of relevance. It's easy to see why Irwin and others struggled to win a BnF until Murray retired, he was contending with Wilson, murray, Murphy, et. al for this club award. He remains a TOTC member nonetheless.

So in other words, apart from Brown, you can't come up with anyone else that may have challenged Murray for B&Fs when he was in his prime?

Didn't think so.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

never saw Jesa play, would have loved to see more footage from his earlier years but like most video in those days, it's all lost forever unfortunately.
Baldock I agree with too but as you say, Hart is as much of a lock as what Jesa is. People who watched his entire career speak of his brilliance in the air which was unparalleled for a long period of time and with 2 goals per game. . .highlights his consistency as CHF in arguably the most trying position on the ground.

I thought Baldock also played on the ball rotating between the two positions?

baldock was a bit before my time but he was picked @ CHF in the saints team of the century with loewe on the half forward despite being bigger ... at the time I remember the selectors saying baldock played CHF not flank

everything is subjective and an opinion but jezza was picked ahead of ablett in 96 and by then ablett's career had all but finished so it was interesting the sun selectors (and that is all they are) reversed that decision

and also the decision to basically replace nicholls with madden (never saw nicholls myself but I have never heard anyone who saw both nicholls and madden rate madden higher and that includes non carlton supporters)

 

[Blind Turn]

baldock was a bit before my time but he was picked @ CHF in the saints team of the century with loewe on the half forward despite being bigger ... at the time I remember the selectors saying baldock played CHF not flank

everything is subjective and an opinion but jezza was picked ahead of ablett in 96 and by then ablett's career had all but finished so it was interesting the sun selectors (and that is all they are) reversed that decision

and also the decision to basically replace nicholls with madden (never saw nicholls myself but I have never heard anyone who saw both nicholls and madden rate madden higher and that includes non carlton supporters)

I've always wondered what it was that would have made him better than Madden. As a kid I grew up idolising Simon. He'd take the big spekky that makes every kid love the game. He'd bag 7 goals to be a matchwinner and then as a 12 yr old I saw him win a Norm Smith and inspire us to black-to-backs. He was also a specialist hang-time tap ruckman. Big Nick apparently had presence and inspired successful teams and he wasn't a mug in front of goals but did he really possess anything significantly outstanding to outrank Madden? Serious question. Or has a myth been perpetuated? Polly sounded like a genius and ahead of his time with his mobility. But Nicholls doesn't strike me as being above and beyond.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

I've always wondered what it was that would have made him better than Madden. As a kid I grew up idolising Simon. He'd take the big spekky that makes every kid love the game. He'd bag 7 goals to be a matchwinner and then as a 12 yr old I saw him win a Norm Smith and inspire us to black-to-backs. He was also a specialist hang-time tap ruckman. Big Nick apparently had presence and inspired successful teams and he wasn't a mug in front of goals but did he really possess anything significantly outstanding to outrank Madden? Serious question. Or has a myth been perpetuated? Polly sounded like a genius and ahead of his time with his mobility. But Nicholls doesn't strike me as being above and beyond.

personally never saw nicholls but the original selectors saw both madden & nicholls and chose nicholls as the 2nd ruckman and dyer as the 3rd ruckman ... madden did not make the team

have met someone who watched nicholls v farmer at their prime and still reckons these two would smash today's ruckman despite the height difference ... also said madden was not fit to carry nicholls bag into the ground and he was a cats supporter

 

[Blind Turn]

personally never saw nicholls but the original selectors saw both madden & nicholls and chose nicholls as the 2nd ruckman and dyer as the 3rd ruckman ... madden did not make the team

have met someone who watched nicholls v farmer at their prime and still reckons these two would smash today's ruckman despite the height difference ... also said madden was not fit to carry nicholls bag into the ground and he was a cats supporter

It's fair enough for old timers to rave over a previous era. We all do it to an extent but this person loses all credibility to say something so demeaning about a bloke whose record speaks for itself. I'm not about to knock Nicholls, I never saw him either. The thing is, there is very little to argue against Madden being included in a best-of. He performed in big games, he had an all-round game (unlike his brother), and he was at times spectacular to watch. Very worthy addition for mine... but still surprising!

 

[Hodgepodge]

So in other words, apart from Brown, you can't come up with anyone else that may have challenged Murray for B&Fs when he was in his prime? Didn't think so.

Plenty, but we're just dealing with Team of the Century players here. The best that the club has produced, let alone players who could challenge for a BnF.

John Murphy, Team of the Century midfielder who played with Kevin Murray when Murray was ages 19-29.
Harvey Merrigan, Team of the Century player who played with Kevin Murray when Murray won the Brownlow and another BnF in 1969.
Norm Brown, Team of the Century player, who played with Murray when Murray was between ages of 24-35.

Then there's the fact that Murray took two years out of the game, denying himself potentially another two BnFs or another Brownlow.

Anyone who thinks Corey Enright stacks up has some serious rocks in their head.

 

[Bobby_]

have met someone who watched nicholls v farmer at their prime and still reckons these two would smash today's ruckman despite the height difference

hard to visualize that happening when you consider how athletic today's footballers are but then again, we're talking a significant size difference and rucks aren't exactly proficient once the ball hits the deck as only Cox, Stynes could match a midfielder in that regard while Nicholls or Farmer weren't exactly your typical tap ruckman so perhaps they would beat most of the giants in the modern game. Farmer was also regarded as one of the most prodigious talents in the WANFL before he entered the VFL. . . a little past his peak (as ridiculous as that sounds).

 

[Modified Dog]

I though of either Enright or McKenna.

Enright 5 AAs and twice club B&F in premiership years swayed it for me.

Yeah, maybe just leave Kevin "Bulldog" Murray right where he is at half back…

9 best and fairests (10 if you include his WA stint) and a Brownlow Medal probably swayed it for me.
He was twice runner-up in the Brownlow (both times by 1 vote) and finished 3rd and 5th

He also captained Victoria and WA and retired as the VFL's games-played record holder

Murray was as tough as they come. Played one whole season with a broken shoulder. He was a freak of nature - 178cm tall, but with a wingspan of 198cm. Perfect for footy, he hardly needed to bend over to gather the bouncing ball. Able to spoil like Dustin Fletcher. All up, he played 377 games of senior footy from 1955-1974, plus another 2 seasons in the VFA as Sandringham's captain coach.

He alternated between half back and ruck rover.

• 333 games for Fitzroy (the VFL record when he retired)
• Brownlow Medal: 1969 (oldest Brownlow Medallist)
• 9 x Best and Fairests: 1956, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1968, 1969
• Represented Victoria 24 times (Captained Victoria)
• All Australian 1958 (state carnival)

• 44 WAFL games (Captain Coach of East Perth 1965-1966)
• East Perth Best and fairest: 1965
• Represented WA 6 times (Captained WA)
• Simpson Medal (BOG, WA vs VFA)
• All Australian 1966 (state carnival)

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Plenty, but we're just dealing with Team of the Century players here. The best that the club has produced, let alone players who could challenge for a BnF.

John Murphy, Team of the Century midfielder who played with Kevin Murray when Murray was ages 19-29.
Harvey Merrigan, Team of the Century player who played with Kevin Murray when Murray won the Brownlow and another BnF in 1969.
Norm Brown, Team of the Century player, who played with Murray when Murray was between ages of 24-35.

Then there's the fact that Murray took two years out of the game, denying himself potentially another two BnFs or another Brownlow.

Anyone who thinks Corey Enright stacks up has some serious rocks in their head.

I know Murphy was a good footballer, I watched a fair portion of his career, but what you're really telling my is that Murphy was so good that he started playing alongside Murray when Murray was 19 and Murphy himself was only 8?

Kevin Murray born 18 June 1938
John Murphy born 20 November 1949
Harvey Merrigan born 04 December 1949 who played 7 games in his debut season of 1969.

I already conceded Brown to you so I don't know why you included him again.

Perhaps you could have another crack at Warwick Irwin who played 5 games in his debut season of 1970 or Gary Wilson who played 9 games in his debut season of 1971.

I'm disappointed, I thought you were a bit better than this.

 

[Hodgepodge]

I know Murphy was a good footballer, I watched a fair portion of his career, but what you're really telling my is that Murphy was so good that he started playing alongside Murray when Murray was 19 and Murphy himself was only 8?

He played with Murray when they were both in their prime, the rest is just your inane trolling.

I'm disappointed, I thought you were a bit better than this.

I wouldn't be too disappointed in anything that disagrees with your ludicrous opinion here. You're just trolling Corey Enright by putting him ahead of Murray.