Team Vs Sydney

[Squizz]

Can you believe the arrogance of Sydney people?

Nikki Tugwell wrote in the HS :

"The Saints historically have tried to agitate Hall more than most - never more so than the 2005 preliminary final, and a series of provocative acts that led to his "love tap" to the stomach of Matt Maguire that almost prevented him playing in the Swans premiership."

Nikki Tugsherselfwell may need to extract herslf from the bubble that she obviously lives in for some air. This dribble reminds me of all the Swans supporters blindly leaping to the defence of Hall both for hitting Staker and also Gram in Round 1.

They have become the new Collingwood it seems - their players can do no wrong regardless of the incident.

LTM4G - I think in amongst our ravings from last week you picked that Birss would get the chop (becuase our selections have been so bizarre lately)?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

While we are making bizzare team selections couldn't we play Fiora on Hall, at least it would be funny to watch.

 

[MF]

Can you believe the arrogance of Sydney people?

Nikki Tugwell wrote in the HS :

"The Saints historically have tried to agitate Hall more than most - never more so than the 2005 preliminary final, and a series of provocative acts that led to his "love tap" to the stomach of Matt Maguire that almost prevented him playing in the Swans premiership."

Nikki Tugsherselfwell may need to extract herslf from the bubble that she obviously lives in for some air. This dribble reminds me of all the Swans supporters blindly leaping to the defence of Hall both for hitting Staker and also Gram in Round 1.

They have become the new Collingwood it seems - their players can do no wrong regardless of the incident.

LTM4G - I think in amongst our ravings from last week you picked that Birss would get the chop (becuase our selections have been so bizarre lately)?

I'm sorry but thats complete garbage. If you read the threads related to it on the swans board you will see that the majority of swans fans were as disgusted , if not more so, than the neutral supporters. Please don't put us all in the same boat as the minority of swans supporters that defended his actions just to suit your argument. As for the Nicki Tugwell article... I can't say I remember Hall being provoked any more than usual so yeah, BS

 

[TassieSaint]

When I read the ins in the paper I was just about to do a silent fist pump, until I read the outs. I just don' get it, not a single one makes sense.
Armitage: Poor game last week but far from worst on ground. We aren't going to win the flag this year so we may as well keep playing him and hopes he puts on another performance like his one against Essendon (I think). He'll struggle for form unless you get games into him
Birss: By far the most ridiculous exclusion. Only player in our team who can kick goals and tags just as well as the Dumpster, Blake etc. Our chances of winning just plummeted (I never thought I'd say that about Birss)
Little Fish: Gave Goodes an absolute spanking last time we played. Maybe Ross didn't check and just assumed Goodes would have gotten weeks for his head high bump and wasn't playing?

Conclusion: I implore Sydney based Saints fans to sneak into our training session and break Dempster, Gwilt, Ross and the selection panels legs. And probably Goodes, Kirk and O'Keefe's whilst you're at it.

 

[Squizz]

I'm sorry but thats complete garbage. If you read the threads related to it on the swans board you will see that the majority of swans fans were as disgusted , if not more so, than the neutral supporters. Please don't put us all in the same boat as the minority of swans supporters that defended his actions just to suit your argument. As for the Nicki Tugwell article... I can't say I remember Hall being provoked any more than usual so yeah, BS

Sorry (1) I don't go onto the Swans board (2) on the main board there were no attempts to bring any of the nuff-nuffs into line by anyone except for the Swans supporter Bollox (3) the nuffies were clearly the majority of Swans supporters. There are always supporters out there who don't have personality disorders but they should help make the threads something other than a one-eyed (or no-eyed) slugfest.

 

[cracky]

Really disappointed once again with the team selections.

I really thought Birss had cemented his spot in the side.

Three consistent performances with the ability to kick a goal, something our midfielders really struggle with.

I hope you've made the right decision Ross because the supporters are really starting to lose faith in you.

 

[lenny_27]

firstly to the moron who suggested montagna should have been dropped, thank god your not runnning the team selection..Although you are right maybe we should drop the bloke who is averaging nearly 22 poss a game and has the 4th most kicks in the afl and the 6th most inside 50's in the afl.. and he infact sits 4th in contested poss at st.kilda..silly silly comment.

I must admit i was a little surprised at team selection.
Birss has been playing mostly as a negative forward trying to stop the impact of the best running backman, however his job hasn't been great the last couple of weeks. he was 50/50 and unfortunately for him he got the axe, however not a huge loss and is easily accounted for. Fisher has struggled to get the footy enough this year, simple as that and deserves to be dropped. You cant reward blokes for a game they played well 10 weeks ago. Jason Blake has got the job done on Goodes before and will most likely get the job again this week. Armitage again this is a tough one, but im not upset at all.

Armitage is going to be a great player for the club, however some of his defensive efforts have been disappointing the last couple of weeks. has been playing a little to loose. can't question his attack on the ball or his tackling when he does apply himaelf. However he has been a little down the last couple. We need to look at the bigger picture, this isn't going to hinder his development.

 

[Fehring]

Yes Armitage and Birss out is bloody disgraceful.

Only thoughts are that Gram or Goddard are going to run through the middle given that they brought in Gilbert and dropped those blokes.

Good ins... But Ferguson, Gwilt, Montagna (biggest disappointment and passenger this year) and Geary would have been on my hit list before those two. Even C Jones... Altho that's not a reflection on him, just how highly I rate those two.

Also there has got to be doubt over Kosi,Harvs, Gilbert and King coming up for this game.

firstly to the moron who suggested montagna should have been dropped, thank god your not runnning the team selection..Although you are right maybe we should drop the bloke who is averaging nearly 22 poss a game and has the 4th most kicks in the afl and the 6th most inside 50's in the afl.. and he infact sits 4th in contested poss at st.kilda..silly silly comment.

I must admit i was a little surprised at team selection.
Birss has been playing mostly as a negative forward trying to stop the impact of the best running backman, however his job hasn't been great the last couple of weeks. he was 50/50 and unfortunately for him he got the axe, however not a huge loss and is easily accounted for. Fisher has struggled to get the footy enough this year, simple as that and deserves to be dropped. You cant reward blokes for a game they played well 10 weeks ago. Jason Blake has got the job done on Goodes before and will most likely get the job again this week. Armitage again this is a tough one, but im not upset at all.

Armitage is going to be a great player for the club, however some of his defensive efforts have been disappointing the last couple of weeks. has been playing a little to loose. can't question his attack on the ball or his tackling when he does apply himaelf. However he has been a little down the last couple. We need to look at the bigger picture, this isn't going to hinder his development.

Hey look, Ma. I just found two sensible posts on this thread. Hard work it was, too.

Lyon has said in the press this week that he's going to gove Beej and Gram time through the middle, hence dropping Armo and Birss and bringing in Gilbo to fill in down back. I think it's a great idea b/c we need more pace through the middle and IF Gilbo stands up, we've still got plenty of run out of the backline.

And for all of the pants-on-the-head brigade, we had three raw midfielders in last week's team - Jones, Armo and Geary. Like it or not our vaunted first round pick has been the least impressive of them, so he sits out. You don't get a game just 'cause you went top 10 in the draft. I KNOW a lot of posters on this thread support that argument (re Raph).

 

[ChrisL#12]

Spot on.


Lyon is a deadset moron if he has dropped this bloke. Would easily be in the Top 8 in our B and F at this point.

EDIT - I just looked at the emergencies and I see that he is named there. Lyon is a complete moron. His selections are ridiculous.

At least we agree on that.

Birss is brilliant by foot. One of very few in the side. Lyon is a vegetable.

 

[MF]

Sorry (1) I don't go onto the Swans board (2) on the main board there were no attempts to bring any of the nuff-nuffs into line by anyone except for the Swans supporter Bollox (3) the nuffies were clearly the majority of Swans supporters. There are always supporters out there who don't have personality disorders but they should help make the threads something other than a one-eyed (or no-eyed) slugfest.

(1) Fair enough but if you did you wouldn't be saying the people defending him are in the majority.

(2) I don't see why it is the responsibility of sensible supporters to pull the ________s into line. If they want to talk crap then it should reflect poorly on them and not the group of supporters as a whole.

(3) Once again, I believe you are wrong. There may have been swans supporters arguing over certain parts of the situation (the penalty handed down etc) but to suggest that the majority of swans supporters were defending Halls actions or trying to justify them in any way is simply wrong.

Anyway... thats all I have to say. Good luck on the weekend, the game should be a cracker as usual

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hey look, Ma. I just found two sensible posts on this thread. Hard work it was, too.

Lyon has said in the press this week that he's going to gove Beej and Gram time through the middle, hence dropping Armo and Birss and bringing in Gilbo to fill in down back. I think it's a great idea b/c we need more pace through the middle and IF Gilbo stands up, we've still got plenty of run out of the backline.

And for all of the pants-on-the-head brigade, we had three raw midfielders in last week's team - Jones, Armo and Geary. Like it or not our vaunted first round pick has been the least impressive of them, so he sits out. You don't get a game just 'cause you went top 10 in the draft. I KNOW a lot of posters on this thread support that argument (re Raph).

A lot controversy is due to the inclusion of Gwilt and Ferguson. I still think that RL is trying them out before determining their future role in the club. It is hard to get a good impression of them if you are only bringing them in for an occasional game then dropping them strait out, and a bit unfair on the players.

 

[Squizz]

(1) Fair enough but if you did you wouldn't be saying the people defending him are in the majority.

(2) I don't see why it is the responsibility of sensible supporters to pull the ________s into line. If they want to talk crap then it should reflect poorly on them and not the group of supporters as a whole.

(3) Once again, I believe you are wrong. There may have been swans supporters arguing over certain parts of the situation (the penalty handed down etc) but to suggest that the majority of swans supporters were defending Halls actions or trying to justify them in any way is simply wrong.

Anyway... thats all I have to say. Good luck on the weekend, the game should be a cracker as usual

OK - we move on, and agreeing to disagree isn't a disaster for those who can hold a football conversation without white foam coming out the sides of their mouth.

 

[Barry Schneider]

Liam Pickering expects a couple of late changes and mentioned Birss would get a start.He said a few players didn't train this week.
Anyone know any more on this?
Who would be the two if he is correct?

 

[sainter]

Hey look, Ma. I just found two sensible posts on this thread. Hard work it was, too.

Lyon has said in the press this week that he's going to gove Beej and Gram time through the middle, hence dropping Armo and Birss and bringing in Gilbo to fill in down back. I think it's a great idea b/c we need more pace through the middle and IF Gilbo stands up, we've still got plenty of run out of the backline.

And for all of the pants-on-the-head brigade, we had three raw midfielders in last week's team - Jones, Armo and Geary. Like it or not our vaunted first round pick has been the least impressive of them, so he sits out. You don't get a game just 'cause you went top 10 in the draft. I KNOW a lot of posters on this thread support that argument (re Raph).

Was the condescending tone towards your fellow supporters really that necessary?

For what it's worth I think it's great that we have differing opinions and you've made some interesting points but it was pretty ordinary I thought.

My major point of difference with the selections were that Gilbert was struggling before his shoulder injury so I was surprised that he's coming straight back into the team but if it's due to playing BJ and Grammy further up the field and the need to strengthen the back half then I can understand it.

As for the love of Armitage on here, I don't think the fact that he was a top 10 draft pick is the major reason why the majority of us thought he should have played. I can't speak for everybody else but in my opinion we should have stuck with him because of his potential and his ability to play the kind of football that our opposition tomorrow night have made an art form out of over the past 5 or so seasons.

 

[sainter]

Liam Pickering expects a couple of late changes and mentioned Birss would get a start.He said a few players didn't train this week.
Anyone know any more on this?
Who would be the two if he is correct?

It was a surprise to many of us that Harvey was named because he was expected to be out for at least 1-2 weeks so he would probably be the obvious candidate.

Don't really know who else is in doubt but the other two emergencies are McQualter and Fiora should Birss come in.

 

[liz]

So given that Fisher is out, and he played on Goodes in round 1, who do Saints fans think is likely to get the job of running with / playing against Goodes? Controversy aside, he was superb last week and looks to be getting back to close to his best. Keeping him to an "ordinary" game is probably going to be important if the Saints are going to win the match.

 

[Fehring]

Was the condescending tone towards your fellow supporters really that necessary?

For what it's worth I think it's great that we have differing opinions and you've made some interesting points but it was pretty ordinary I thought.

My major point of difference with the selections were that Gilbert was struggling before his shoulder injury so I was surprised that he's coming straight back into the team but if it's due to playing BJ and Grammy further up the field and the need to strengthen the back half then I can understand it.

As for the love of Armitage on here, I don't think the fact that he was a top 10 draft pick is the major reason why the majority of us thought he should have played. I can't speak for everybody else but in my opinion we should have stuck with him because of his potential and his ability to play the kind of football that our opposition tomorrow night have made an art form out of over the past 5 or so seasons.

Re my "condescending tone", lighten up, Sainter. I would have thought that the "look ma" bit was a give away that I was giving a reasonably light-hearted ribbing.
Re Gilbert, agreed but if you're going to move Gram and Beej upfield, options are limited.
Re Armitage, no matter what you say most Saints fans think he's better than, say, Geary b/c he was taken higher in the draft. It's not a bad way for us to guauge a bloke's starting point, but it's not enough to keep playing him if he's not performing (once again, see Raph).

 

[Fehring]

Re my "condescending tone", lighten up, Sainter. I would have thought that the "look ma" bit was a give away that I was giving a reasonably light-hearted ribbing.
Re Gilbert, agreed but if you're going to move Gram and Beej upfield, options are limited.
Re Armitage, no matter what you say most Saints fans think he's better than, say, Geary b/c he was taken higher in the draft. It's not a bad way for us to guauge a bloke's starting point, but it's not enough to keep playing him if he's not performing (once again, see Raph).

Also, I think that Armo has a lot of making up to do for last year. He was apparently quite lazy, so I think Lyon might be putting him through the seven circles of hell to see how much he really wants it.

 

[grimlock]

So given that Fisher is out, and he played on Goodes in round 1, who do Saints fans think is likely to get the job of running with / playing against Goodes? Controversy aside, he was superb last week and looks to be getting back to close to his best. Keeping him to an "ordinary" game is probably going to be important if the Saints are going to win the match.

'Twill be Jason Blake, who has done well on Adam in the past.

 

[ssfc0203]

There was also mention of Dempster on Mal or Tadhg, but I don't see this as a possibility unless he's being moved forward a lot during the game?

 

[Squizz]

Re my "condescending tone", lighten up, Sainter. I would have thought that the "look ma" bit was a give away that I was giving a reasonably light-hearted ribbing.
Re Gilbert, agreed but if you're going to move Gram and Beej upfield, options are limited.
Re Armitage, no matter what you say most Saints fans think he's better than, say, Geary b/c he was taken higher in the draft. It's not a bad way for us to guauge a bloke's starting point, but it's not enough to keep playing him if he's not performing (once again, see Raph).

Geary is not being played as a mid, and CJ often gets a defensive (forward) role. As shown today, Armo is one of the club's better kicks and tacklers/blockers, both of which we desperately need. He has struggled to work into a game with the Saints when given such short bursts. Last year is last year, and he has clearly done the work this pre-season (why would you still think the club is teaching him a lesson?). And don't you think you could make your point without another boring pants-on-the-head reference?

 

[sainter]

Time for a youth transfusion: Lyon
By Aidan Ormond
12:17 AM Sun 15 June, 2008


ST KILDA coach Ross Lyon says he will blood a number of younger players to give his side a “transfusion” after the Saints' 35-point loss to Sydney on Saturday night.

Lyon suggested the group was lacking enthusiasm and energy. He said that one of the ways to overcome that problem was by bringing in younger players that were currently impressing in the reserves.

“The time has come for the [Ben] McEvoy's and the [Brad] Howards. We've got some good kids in our seconds and they had another good win today. I can't accept continually losing and going in with the same cattle.

“We judge everyone on the ability they have and what they delivered tonight. So if you don't meet your ability you're going to be under some pressure and we're going to make some changes.

“We need to blood more [kids]. We need to get a blood transfusion into the group to get some enthusiasm and energy.”

While admitting he would begin playing a few more inexperienced players, Lyon said he had not given up on the finals, with his side still ninth on 20 points.

Lyon explained that one of the current problems with the Saints was that the team was “predictable” and lacked pace.

“You don’t give up on finals,” he said. “We've got 10 weeks to develop the players and the type of football we want. We want to compete consistently with one-on-one football.

“We've just got to worry about building our confidence back up and putting together a team structure, work ethic and a consistency that allows us to win AFL footy.

“At the moment we're 5-7 [win-loss] and there are good reasons for that. Against teams around us we've done quite well but against teams clearly heading for the top four, we've been caught short.”

The former Swans assistant coach said his side didn't play to its full potential over the four quarters.

Lyon added the performances of Jason Gram, Sam Fisher and Michael Gardiner were positives on a night that saw his side behind at every turn.

“I thought it was a good, positive start and we looked dangerous. But gradually their [the Swans] work-rate and evenness across the board resulted in them wrestling full momentum of the game.

“We reconstructed at half-time, putting Jason Gram and Sam Fisher through the midfield to complement the work of [Lenny] Hayes and the ruckman and we got some real run and spread and we kicked 5-2 and looked really dangerous and I think we got to within 12 or 11 points.

“But in the end, their evenness and weight of numbers saw them get on top again.”

Not that he mentioned Armitage, but it looks like we're about to get our wish with the kids getting a run in the coming weeks.

Howard's an interesting one. There was a big outcry on Saintsational because we apparently selected him too early in the draft while there were players like Daniel Connors (who hasn't even played yet has he?) still available. He seemed nowhere near AFL quality for the early part of last season but he worked his way into the Scorpions team late in the season and looks to have stepped up this season. One thing he does have is pace so if he can develop into a senior player it would be a bonus for the club.

McEvoy looks to have plateaued a little but I still don't think there's any harm in giving him a taste of senior footy, especially with Gardiner seemingly injurying his hammy. It would be a big ask against Sandilands next week but without Kosi and Gehrig we seemed almost devoid of big targets so I'd give him a run in the forward line and perhaps throw him into the ruck when Sandilands isn't there.

 

[Rockford]

Can anyone tell me how they were able to select Charlie Gardiner to play? He wasn't listed as an emergency. Thanks.

 

[grimlock]

I think you have to pay a fine. Melbourne did that last week with Daniel Bell.

 

[SOLMAN86]

Not that he mentioned Armitage, but it looks like we're about to get our wish with the kids getting a run in the coming weeks.

Howard's an interesting one. There was a big outcry on Saintsational because we apparently selected him too early in the draft while there were players like Daniel Connors (who hasn't even played yet has he?) still available. He seemed nowhere near AFL quality for the early part of last season but he worked his way into the Scorpions team late in the season and looks to have stepped up this season. One thing he does have is pace so if he can develop into a senior player it would be a bonus for the club.

McEvoy looks to have plateaued a little but I still don't think there's any harm in giving him a taste of senior footy, especially with Gardiner seemingly injurying his hammy. It would be a big ask against Sandilands next week but without Kosi and Gehrig we seemed almost devoid of big targets so I'd give him a run in the forward line and perhaps throw him into the ruck when Sandilands isn't there.

Thats great thinking

Ill give a full run down on ST Kilda.

Ross Lyon is the man for the job

Finished is King L Fisher A Fiora J Gwilt R Clarke J Blake F Gehrig R Harvey(champion but has to retire) Rix

Must Keep Ball Hayes Armitage Jones Gram Montagna S Fisher Hudghton(despite age) Goddard Geary Mc Evoy etc

Riewoldt Dal Santo & Koschitzke might be better off traded to recruit the next batch of youngsters

The rest you can decide at your own.

I really think Ross Lyon will sort it out late 2008