Tenace getting another go?

[turbo0010]

It's more that every pre-season Thompson names a player he wants in the 22 and doesn't back off until it's so blatantly obvious they don't deserve to be there it's frustrating as a fan.

I just feel like he'll do that with Tenace. I think Mark Thompson would be a very stubborn man.

When a team is winning, why not give players the chance to get some confidence up and give them a good crack at it.

he's the coach, he would ask them to go out and do a job, if they do that job, they will play the next week. It may look like he was crap to us, but if he does what is asked of him, then the coach will be happy with his performance. Players will not get games if they don't deserve it.

If one/two/three players don't do their job, then the team will probably lose and more than one player will look bad, even if he is out there doing exactly what is asked of him.

 

[turbo0010]

Also, last time i checked, woj shanks every second kick too. He takes the game on, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, But that's what he's there for.

 

[ripitup27]

Also, last time i checked, woj shanks every second kick too. He takes the game on, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, But that's what he's there for.

100% disposal efficiency in the 07 Grand Final calls BS.

The times Woja does stuff up the kick is when he's going flat out into the forward line, where an errant kick doesn't matter as much. Tenace stuffs his kicks up in the corridior in the back 50...not pretty.

 

[ripitup27]

Some things I would like to clear up.

• You dont play a young player in a year when we are aiming for a premiership, just to give them experience. If they are not ready, then they are not ready. We play the best 22 we have, in the positions they are best in, suited for the opposition we are playing, at the venue we are playing. No other reasons!
• You dont play players out of position just because they are better than another player. It is like drafting cousins and playing him at CHB because there is no room in the midfield and he is a better player than Taylor. Stupid. I especially find it amusing that ripitup27 has brought up the arguement that Bomber has experimented with players out of position when it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that Tenace is being groomed to for the Wojac role. That position isnt suited to Hogan or DJ (DJ is far behind Tenace at the moment anyway).

It is funny how the coaching staff, supporters of other clubs and media commentators all thought he had an okay game. That stats also suggested he was okay too. But true to BF fashion there are a few people who just need a player or two too bag.

The best thing about BF though is the desire to cut a player down without suggesting a viable alternative. This is what happened with Kent, Charlie and a number of other players. Yes they were not up to AFL standard, but the simple fact is we didnt have players who were better than them. Some others want us to just play the youngsters regardless of whether or not they are ready for senior football.

Behind Wojac for the running HB player there is not all that much competition for spots. Wojac --> Tenace --> DJ (could be groomed for it). We should play them in that order until DJ shows he is a better player than Tenace (not someone with more potential, but better NOW).

I for one want to see Tenace play the rest of the NAB cup and to see how he is. Also remember that a lot of players take time to develop (shit Wojac took years - had horrble disposal and used his pace poorly, Enright took a few, etc etc.).

The last point is you can bag a player if he had a shit game, be my guest. And your opinion on something that is FACT doesnt interest me at all. Tenace has a good game on the weekend, that isnt my opinion it is a fact supported by the comments of the coaching staff, stats and unbiased reporters.

I find it amusing that you think Tenace is a HBFlanker. He's a midfielder and his poor disposal isn't suited to the HBF. Look at the best HBFlankers going around. McLeod, Gilbee, Enright, Burgoyne...all with fantastic skills. Tenace hasn't got

1-the disposal accuracy to play HB.
2-the dash out of half back. Sure he's quick when he feels like it, but he panics coming out of half back and if you can't see that you're not watching the same game as I am.

As for playing players out of position, sure Hogan would be, but Djerka came into the team as a HBFlanker, played the majority of his VFL there and should be given a shot before Tenace before he gives up with the Cats and wants to play somewhere else where he will get a chance.

That's all I'm asking. That another HBF player gets at least one CHANCE before Tenace gets his sixth chance to play round one.

As for DJ, I think he's on par as a stopper with Tenace (that's the one thing I've been impressed with) but DJ has better disposal.

Maybe the coaching staff should be looking at Tenace as a back up tagger for Ling. Good aerobic ability, good stopping skills but poor skills...if he doesn't have to kick it, he's valuable.

 

[turbo0010]

100% disposal efficiency in the 07 Grand Final calls BS.

The times Woja does stuff up the kick is when he's going flat out into the forward line, where an errant kick doesn't matter as much. Tenace stuffs his kicks up in the corridior in the back 50...not pretty.

I'm not saying tenace is better than him, becuase there is nothing to back that up. Tenace's de was 87% on the weekend though, very far from poor and better than 2/3rd's of the team, so i just don't know why people are bagging him. He was much better than previous performances and it's round 1 of the nab cup ffs.

If woj doesn't get up for round one, i think he has to be an option.

 

[ripitup27]

I'm not saying tenace is better than him, becuase there is nothing to back that up. Tenace's de was 87% on the weekend though, very far from poor and better than 2/3rd's of the team, so i just don't know why people are bagging him. He was much better than previous performances and it's round 1 of the nab cup ffs.

If woj doesn't get up for round one, i think he has to be an option.

So how do we rate his performance since it is round one pre-season? I thought it was poor, you thought it was good. We can only really rate him on what he's done in the season proper, and despite being given the chance to play round one since 2005 he has not performed.

That's why I think someone else should be given a shot off half back ahead of him. Give Djerka a go, give DJ a go, put Corey back there and play Hogan in the midfield...why should he keep getting these chances ahead of other as-deserving players every round one every year?


Even without Wojack our side seems pretty balanced without having to give Tenace a spot, especially with running half-backs in Enright and Mackie. Presuming injuries to Harley, Egan and Wojcinski for round one, our backline still looks like:

B: Hunt - Scarlett - Milburn
HB: Mackie - Taylor - Enright

One, I don't know why he's needed, and two, if someone can convince me we need to replace Wojcinski, why not give another guy a chance to play round one, since Tenace has been a let down the past four seasons when he's played round one.

 

[darren forssman]

• You dont play players out of position just because they are better than another player. It is like drafting cousins and playing him at CHB because there is no room in the midfield and he is a better player than Taylor. Stupid. I especially find it amusing that ripitup27 has brought up the arguement that Bomber has experimented with players out of position when it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that Tenace is being groomed to for the Wojac role. That position isnt suited to Hogan or DJ (DJ is far behind Tenace at the moment anyway).

ummm, tenace is a midfielder/winger playing "out of position" in the back half.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

[/list]ummm, tenace is a midfielder/winger playing "out of position" in the back half.

True. But Tenace has been playing half back for a few years now. It's not like a kid would learn the Geelong game plan overnight playing there.

As for the rest, I just think it's an interesting standard that's being set here. 23 disposals at 86% efficiency earns the wrath of the forum.

Good luck backing that up for the rest of the season with all our players

 

[Jimmy 2 Shoes]

Anyone who compares Tenace with Wojcinski should be shot. Worlds apart.

 

[ripitup27]

True. But Tenace has been playing half back for a few years now. It's not like a kid would learn the Geelong game plan overnight playing there.

As for the rest, I just think it's an interesting standard that's being set here. 23 disposals at 86% efficiency earns the wrath of the forum.

Good luck backing that up for the rest of the season with all our players

As long as you can back up Tenace if he fails for the fifth year in a row.

 

[Pivo]

From a purely personal perspective the issue I have with Tenace is based on his career as a whole.

He was taken at pick 7 in 2003 which means he is now coming into his 6th year on Geelong's list. A list that, for the most part, has seen significant improvement in the majority of its players over the course of his tenure.

In that time, this highly rated junior (and he isn't on his Pat Malone here, I'm well aware of that) hasn't shown anything since his first year. When a player has been on a list for as long as Tenace has and his best senior football has been played in his opening few matches there has to be some questions raised.

I am happy to admit that I am anti-Tenace and I take on board people's comments that his every mistake will be amplified in my mind, this is very true.

However, even allowing for injuries that he has had over the journey, he has only managed to amass 54 games and the majority of these matches were played in his first 3 seasons at the club. Conversely, Mackie (taken in 2002 but didn’t play a game until 2004 – the same year as Tenace) has now played 82 games with the majority being played later in his career. Mackie has cemented his spot in the seniors; Tenace is struggling to get a game.

Both Tenace and Mackie appear suited to similar sorts of positions, running off half back or on a wing, so comparing the two, in my mind, is sound. Yes, Mackie has height on Tenace but Tenace (apparently) should have pace on Mackie.

This brings me to the main issue I have with Tenace. He seemingly was drafted for one major asset – pace. This pace was there to see early in his career but now I would back Byrnes, Wojcinski, Djerrkura and Taylor Hunt to all beat him in a flat sprint. Where did his pace go? The one thing that was in his favour has apparently disappeared either through bulking up, loss of confidence to run when in possession or injury concerns.

His lack of pace has seen him caught on numerous occasions when you would expect him to out-sprint guys. He doesn’t break out of or away from packs, his decision making isn’t all that great and his disposal can best be described as hit and miss over more that 15-20 metres. Is he a wingman or a half back? The club is trying to turn him into a defender but I’m far from sold on that idea. You want him to develop a defensive side of his game, make him tag in the midfield.

After Wojcinski, Tenace is the next in line for the running half back flanker? OK, maybe that is correct but I can make a back 6 off the top of my head without either Wojcinski or Tenace (or Harley for that matter) and I’m still confident that I could get drive from this defensive 6.

J. Hunt-Scarlett-Milburn
Enright-Taylor-Mackie

True, there is no fast running line breaker although Mackie and, to a lesser degree, Enright don’t do bad jobs and Taylor could also provide run if Gillies, McKenna, West (in the future) or, by some miracle, Egan (now) held/holds down CHB. J Hunt can kick the ball over 50 metres with good efficiency so there is more than one way to launch attacks from the back half.


Based on last Saturday night I would say Hogan showed more poise in his first senior hit out than Tenace has in his most recent senior outings. Yes, it is only one game but I’ve seen the future in Hogan. In Tenace I just see the past.

If Geelong is looking to Tenace to fill a running defender role this year then I am a mite concerned. He doesn’t seem able to outrun opposition players anymore, he isn’t a natural defender (how comfortable would you feel if the ball came into Hawthorn’s forward line and it was Tenace V Dew or Tenace V Rioli or Tenace V Osborne or the Bulldogs forward 50 and it was Tenace V Akermanis or Tenace V Higgins – the list could go on) and once he has the ball there is, in my view, a better than average chance he’ll make the wrong decision or dispose of the pigskin poorly and turn it over.

Yes, I’m anti-Tenace. Yes his mistakes are highlighted to me because I’m anti-Tenace. Yes, he might be 2009’s latest whipping boy in a long line of Geelong whipping boys. However, Tenace has had ample opportunities and just hasn’t delivered when the chances were presented to him. He now appears to have lost pace, confidence and his disposal (which has always been shaky) hasn’t really shown any improvement to my eyes. IMO younger players have passed him by and it is there I want Geelong to be looking.

 

[BIGANT]

From a purely personal perspective the issue I have with Tenace is based on his career as a whole.

He was taken at pick 7 in 2003 which means he is now coming into his 6th year on Geelong's list. A list that, for the most part, has seen significant improvement in the majority of its players over the course of his tenure.

In that time, this highly rated junior (and he isn't on his Pat Malone here, I'm well aware of that) hasn't shown anything since his first year. When a player has been on a list for as long as Tenace has and his best senior football has been played in his opening few matches there has to be some questions raised.

I am happy to admit that I am anti-Tenace and I take on board people's comments that his every mistake will be amplified in my mind, this is very true.

However, even allowing for injuries that he has had over the journey, he has only managed to amass 54 games and the majority of these matches were played in his first 3 seasons at the club. Conversely, Mackie (taken in 2002 but didn’t play a game until 2004 – the same year as Tenace) has now played 82 games with the majority being played later in his career. Mackie has cemented his spot in the seniors; Tenace is struggling to get a game.

Both Tenace and Mackie appear suited to similar sorts of positions, running off half back or on a wing, so comparing the two, in my mind, is sound. Yes, Mackie has height on Tenace but Tenace (apparently) should have pace on Mackie.

This brings me to the main issue I have with Tenace. He seemingly was drafted for one major asset – pace. This pace was there to see early in his career but now I would back Byrnes, Wojcinski, Djerrkura and Taylor Hunt to all beat him in a flat sprint. Where did his pace go? The one thing that was in his favour has apparently disappeared either through bulking up, loss of confidence to run when in possession or injury concerns.

His lack of pace has seen him caught on numerous occasions when you would expect him to out-sprint guys. He doesn’t break out of or away from packs, his decision making isn’t all that great and his disposal can best be described as hit and miss over more that 15-20 metres. Is he a wingman or a half back? The club is trying to turn him into a defender but I’m far from sold on that idea. You want him to develop a defensive side of his game, make him tag in the midfield.

After Wojcinski, Tenace is the next in line for the running half back flanker? OK, maybe that is correct but I can make a back 6 off the top of my head without either Wojcinski or Tenace (or Harley for that matter) and I’m still confident that I could get drive from this defensive 6.

J. Hunt-Scarlett-Milburn
Enright-Taylor-Mackie

True, there is no fast running line breaker although Mackie and, to a lesser degree, Enright don’t do bad jobs and Taylor could also provide run if Gillies, McKenna, West (in the future) or, by some miracle, Egan (now) held/holds down CHB. J Hunt can kick the ball over 50 metres with good efficiency so there is more than one way to launch attacks from the back half.


Based on last Saturday night I would say Hogan showed more poise in his first senior hit out than Tenace has in his most recent senior outings. Yes, it is only one game but I’ve seen the future in Hogan. In Tenace I just see the past.

If Geelong is looking to Tenace to fill a running defender role this year then I am a mite concerned. He doesn’t seem able to outrun opposition players anymore, he isn’t a natural defender (how comfortable would you feel if the ball came into Hawthorn’s forward line and it was Tenace V Dew or Tenace V Rioli or Tenace V Osborne or the Bulldogs forward 50 and it was Tenace V Akermanis or Tenace V Higgins – the list could go on) and once he has the ball there is, in my view, a better than average chance he’ll make the wrong decision or dispose of the pigskin poorly and turn it over.

Yes, I’m anti-Tenace. Yes his mistakes are highlighted to me because I’m anti-Tenace. Yes, he might be 2009’s latest whipping boy in a long line of Geelong whipping boys. However, Tenace has had ample opportunities and just hasn’t delivered when the chances were presented to him. He now appears to have lost pace, confidence and his disposal (which has always been shaky) hasn’t really shown any improvement to my eyes. IMO younger players have passed him by and it is there I want Geelong to be looking.

Here here, agree w you totally. Maybe you should email this on to the match commitee !?

 

[catempire]

The Pivotonian,

I think you make some reasonable points. I think most people see the flaws in Tenace that you do. Nobody would dispute that Tenace has had opportunities and hasn't taken them.

In response I can only say:

1. this is only the NAB Cup

2. We are stuck with Tenace for 2009 so we might as well use the opportunity as a last chance of sorts to see whether he'll make it (there are examples of players who don't flourish until their 6th or 7th year)

3. He is not keeping any player out who is banging down the door for a half back flank spot. I dispute that Hogan is playing for that position and I strongly dispute (in the face of many people who will disagree) that Djerrkura has earned the right to be tried in that role.

4. Wojcinski will certainly replace him when fit

5. On Saturday night's performance, he deserves another go. I'm sorry, but the anti-Tenace bias on this board has blinded people from seeing that he played a fair game. It is supported by the coach, it is supported by some neutral media and it is supported by some supporters who aren't hell bent on seeing the back of Tenace.

So just chill. Feel vindicated if he plays badly and is dropped. Be happy if he proves you wrong and plays well.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

As long as you can back up Tenace if he fails for the fifth year in a row.

I have merely put forward that 23 disposals @ 86% efficiency is a fair and decent return for a NAB Cup match. Thats exactly what I am discussing and that is all that I am discussing. A performance completely unworthy of the relentless negative criticism that is focused on just bringing someone down and nothing else. You seem to want to describe that Tenace's career somehow hinged on 4 lousy turnovers out of 23 disposals. You go on to name certain defensive players in our side who never cough the footy up in such a fashion. Yet Mackie was ordinary and even Scarlett tracked at 75% on Saturday night.

You and many others on here have set the standard that 86% de isnt good enough so let it stand and see how that plays out for the whole season.

Tenace has admitted in an article this week that if he cant maintain his form he wont play. There isnt a person around who disputes this so whats the problem?

I am commenting about 1 Nab Cup game and looking forward to watching the next game. Not just focusing all my attention on bringing 1 player down either as I will watch the whole side and comment accordingly.

 

[Conan Troutman]

True. But Tenace has been playing half back for a few years now. It's not like a kid would learn the Geelong game plan overnight playing there.

As for the rest, I just think it's an interesting standard that's being set here. 23 disposals at 86% efficiency earns the wrath of the forum.

Good luck backing that up for the rest of the season with all our players

FWIW, Wojcinski's highest number of disposals in a game is 23, which he has only done twice in his career.

I don't think we need either of them playing in the best 22 IMO. Like Pivotonian pointed out, Mackie, Enright and co can do the job, plus Bartel and Corey are often back there to help out going forward. If we need a wingman, I think Varcoe or even Hogan would be the better options too. Happy to see Tenace getting a shot over pre-season though.

 

[Vdubs]

Hope Davenport doesn't run rings around us -- still can't accept we had to keep tenace while Davenport was never given a chance, & why Callan was let go. Wojo is far superior to Tenace, not comparable & at his best, is actually a drawcard & sure he excites & inspires his teammates. 3 or 4 of Wojo's runs and carries are worth 20 of Tenaces possessions. What is surprising is that Tenace should be a similar burst player--what has happened to his speed/pace? Varcoe , Byrnes, Hogan all seem more capable as midfielders, & if Tenace is going to be a HBF, his disposal needs to improve urgently. His demise reminds me of D Clarke jnr., who I actually liked for a while, until his confidence and disposal hit rock-bottom; Unlike D. Spriggs who NEVER had any skills in the first place.

 

[Hinkley29]

Hope Davenport doesn't run rings around us -- still can't accept we had to keep tenace

Having a year left on his contract had a lot to do with this I think. We couldn't afford the salary cap hit if we cut him.

 

[scottydeewah]

Exactly what Catempire said.

The guy has a good game and gets ripped a new one. Was EASILY in our top half dozen against the crows. Lets see how he goes in round two of the PRACTISE MATCHES!

 

[hamG]

Hope Davenport doesn't run rings around us

He won't - because we'll put Tenace on him. He had 86% disposal efficiency therefor making him our best defender.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

He won't - because we'll put Tenace on him. He had 86% disposal efficiency therefor making him our best defender.

The point is he was far from our worst Saturday night.

 

[ripitup27]

I have merely put forward that 23 disposals @ 86% efficiency is a fair and decent return for a NAB Cup match. Thats exactly what I am discussing and that is all that I am discussing. A performance completely unworthy of the relentless negative criticism that is focused on just bringing someone down and nothing else. You seem to want to describe that Tenace's career somehow hinged on 4 lousy turnovers out of 23 disposals. You go on to name certain defensive players in our side who never cough the footy up in such a fashion. Yet Mackie was ordinary and even Scarlett tracked at 75% on Saturday night.

You and many others on here have set the standard that 86% de isnt good enough so let it stand and see how that plays out for the whole season.

Tenace has admitted in an article this week that if he cant maintain his form he wont play. There isnt a person around who disputes this so whats the problem?

I am commenting about 1 Nab Cup game and looking forward to watching the next game. Not just focusing all my attention on bringing 1 player down either as I will watch the whole side and comment accordingly.

86% is fine but it doesn't show where he f'd up the 4 or 5 disposals he f'd up. From memory just about all of them were kicks back into the centre corridior in the defensive fifty...I just don't think that's acceptable.

But anyway, all I'm saying is that Tenace has played round one every year since 2005 and in none of those years has he taken his opportunity. Why give him another chance to play round one when there are players just as deserving to have a crack off HB?

 

[Redemptionin09]

I'd like to continue with this one, but I don't want to get off topic.

I would love it if Simon Hogan stepped up to be that pacy guy who breaks the lines rather than going around in circles with the likes of Byrnes and Tenace, hoping they will improve year after year.

Me too...he has improved somewhat from being a project player in the preseason of 07' and surprised me somewhat during the match against Adelaide when he broke a tackle evaded traffic and sprinted along the boundary (that piece of individual brilliance lead to Ablett finishing off a fantastic team goal running, bouncing and slotting it from outside 50m)..everyone talks about how good Ablett was to kick that goal (that's obvious..he's a god) but Hogan's play in that situation was a pleasant surprise and hopefully a sign for the future. I'm warming to Hogan after that performance.

 

[catempire]

Why give him another chance to play round one when there are players just as deserving to have a crack off HB?

And round and round we go.

Because there aren't other players just as deserving.

From memory just about all of them were kicks back into the centre corridior in the defensive fifty...I just don't think that's acceptable.

It's interesting you raise that. I noticed a the whole backline unit using this play; it was clearly part of the team plan to centre the ball out of defence back into the corridor. Tenace wasn't the only one doing it, although two of his kicks did not find team mates. Several other players (I can recall Corey and Scarlett in particular) also missed targets doing this. One other Tenace kick was smothered off the boot and there's another I can't recall.

 

[ripitup27]

And round and round we go.

Because there aren't other players just as deserving.

What has Tenace done that DJ, Djerka or Hogan hasn't done? Why don't we give them a chance every year round one?

Feels like the coaching staff trying to warrant Tenace as a top 10 pick no matter what it takes.

 

[catempire]

What has Tenace done that DJ, Djerka or Hogan hasn't done? Why don't we give them a chance every year round one?

Feels like the coaching staff trying to warrant Tenace as a top 10 pick no matter what it takes.

Tenace has just had a good game playing off a half back flank in the NAB Cup which has warranted another opportunity (in the NAB Cup and in the absence of a better alternative - Wojcinski).

DJ is a lock down tagger/defender, Djerrkura has not yet shown he is up to it and Hogan will again play as a midfielder.

As for round 1, we'll probably have a near full squad and none of these players - including Tenace - will play anyway.