Thank you Mr, Beazley

[Frodo]

So Beazley will sign the Kyoto protocol if he gets in power.

That's at least one plant worth $1 Billion in WA on the drwaing boards that will be scrapped. How many more in Australia.

What an economic miracle worker he is

 

[Danni]

Frodo I don't know the details of this situation.......BUT..hyperthetically speaking.........if it was scrapped infavour of a project that would create more jobs and more income in a more socially disadvantaged area......would you still feel the same?

Just a question cause a 'thank you Mr Beazley' topic started by you, would normally be anti ALP seeing as you are so pro-lib/nat coalition.

So in the hyperthetical............would you feel the same?

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Danni
Frodo I don't know the details of this situation.......BUT..hyperthetically speaking.........if it was scrapped infavour of a project that would create more jobs and more income in a more socially disadvantaged area......would you still feel the same?

Just a question cause a 'thank you Mr Beazley' topic started by you, would normally be anti ALP seeing as you are so pro-lib/nat coalition.

So in the hyperthetical............would you feel the same?

If a project is scrapped in favour of one that provides more employment and more income for Australia then I would be in favour. Of course I would prefer both projects to go ahead.
The project in question is downstream processing which I believe is the right direction. Why export iron ore when we can process it here in australia and add value?
I don't know what you ean by a socially disadvantaged area but if you mean 'out bush' then the costs of such a venture can be astronomical as has been found with the BHP DRI roject and Anaconda Nickel, both of which are financial disasters.

 

[Chilli Afterglow]

All I can say for our domestic politics is thank God for the Tampa / WTC quinella. This has given the Howard government a fighting chance of winning this election.

This is not to say that Howard is good, but I really shudder to think what would happen if Beazley got in. Whoever called him the 'Political Windsock' hit the nail right on the head! This guy is spineless and would only lead the country based upon popular whim.

If we must have a Labor government, please at least give us someone strong like Keating who at least knew what he stood for.

Beazley..... Phhhhttttt!

The example stated would most probably be based upon Beazley trying to appease someone from Labor's mad left. All he would need is for someone from Labor's right to put an alternative argument up and the windsock would immediately blow that way.

 

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by Chilli Afterglow
... The example stated would most probably be based upon Beazley trying to appease someone from Labor's mad left ...

So you equate the Kyoto protocol with the "mad left"?
What a sad world this is, where the desire for the survival of the planet is discredited as madness.

No jobs on a dead planet, you fool.
No nothing on a dead planet.

You are a complete idiot.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Originally posted by Frodo
So Beazley will sign the Kyoto protocol if he gets in power.

That's at least one plant worth $1 Billion in WA on the drwaing boards that will be scrapped. How many more in Australia.

What an economic miracle worker he is

Nero fiddles while Rome burns...

What price the future frodo?

No doubt it is comforting for you and your ilk to know that George Dubbya has pulled out of the Kyoto protocol...

The world's greatest gobbler of non renewable resources leads the way again...our hero huh?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Frodo

Do you think the Greenhouse Effect is a load of rubbish ?

 

[Pessimistic]

And Howard is so strong. Isn't he ... Strong on what the latest opinion polls say will get him re-elected.

When will people realise thet now afghanistan is a war zone, we cannot send refugees back, by law.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Originally posted by Chilli Afterglow
, but I really shudder to think what would happen if Beazley got in. Whoever called him the 'Political Windsock' hit the nail right on the head! This guy is spineless and would only lead the country based upon popular whim.







hahahahahahahahahahahaha this comment is made by someone who supports Johnny 'backflip' Howard, how many instances has Lil Johnny had where hes changed policy midstrEam based on an opinion poll? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

'popular whim' Chilli do you mean Beaza listens to what the majority want? Isnt that a good thing? hahahahahahahaha

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Frodo

Do you think the Greenhouse Effect is a load of rubbish ?

From what I have read and seen I certainly think it is a vastly exaggerated prognosis that has it's roots in the creation of objectives and jobs for many thousands of people.

Around two decades ago society recognised that technology would take the place of a lot of jobs (automation etc). The future was to be in a world where people worked fewer hours and had more leisure time. This has proven incorrect as people in general need a purpose to life and that is often their occupation. To satisfy that need society has used technology to create purpose and jobs. The greenhouse effect is one.

When I was at school I was taught all about global cooling, another ice age was coming....within one year this changed to global warming....but evidence from Oxford University shows that there has been miniscule temperature swings and that the worlds temperature has been stable for over a million years.

There is then the argument of deforestisation and the net increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. But tests prove that in a coarbon dioxide enriched atmosphere plants grow at an accelerated rate. Nature is a wonderful thing, the planet hasn't survived for so long because of the birth of Neanderthol Greenies.

Fossil fuels have been used by humans for eons but it can easily be seen that the future energy need will be met by other means. Hydro electric power stations and nuclear power stations will give way to solar power as is used to power space stations. It is only a matter of time and we have enough fossil fuel to give us that time.

Just think of the world hundred of years ago. Smog riddled cities like London and billions of people burning wood, coal and peat for heat and cooking. There surely should have been a catastrophic greenhouse effect then. Now we have other forms of energy, means of reducing pollution, clear skies etc,.

I then come to the reality of DEMAND. If we regulate to stop development of projects here then they are simply built overseas as demand will always create the result. If we stop logging in Australia more logging will be done overseas. So the net effect of regulation is that the world is not helped but Australia is economically disadvantaged. If we were not disadvantaged it is plausible that our economy would grow faster, our wealth would grow and our ability to care more for the disadvantaged and take more world refugees would be enhanced.


I know that what I have said is contoversial and open to challenge (or more commonly ridicule on this board) but I have not simply listened to teachers and greenies. I have done some research on the subject and have used my thought processes to come to a conclusion rather than just become a parrot of someone elses brain. I urge others to do the same
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ps ALF...please don't respond

 

[eagleskickass]

Originally posted by Frodo

From what I have read and seen I certainly think it is a vastly exaggerated prognosis that has it's roots in the creation of objectives and jobs for many thousands of people.

Around two decades ago society recognised that technology would take the place of a lot of jobs (automation etc). The future was to be in a world where people worked fewer hours and had more leisure time. This has proven incorrect as people in general need a purpose to life and that is often their occupation. To satisfy that need society has used technology to create purpose and jobs. The greenhouse effect is one.

When I was at school I was taught all about global cooling, another ice age was coming....within one year this changed to global warming....but evidence from Oxford University shows that there has been miniscule temperature swings and that the worlds temperature has been stable for over a million years.

There is then the argument of deforestisation and the net increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. But tests prove that in a coarbon dioxide enriched atmosphere plants grow at an accelerated rate. Nature is a wonderful thing, the planet hasn't survived for so long because of the birth of Neanderthol Greenies.

Fossil fuels have been used by humans for eons but it can easily be seen that the future energy need will be met by other means. Hydro electric power stations and nuclear power stations will give way to solar power as is used to power space stations. It is only a matter of time and we have enough fossil fuel to give us that time.

Just think of the world hundred of years ago. Smog riddled cities like London and billions of people burning wood, coal and peat for heat and cooking. There surely should have been a catastrophic greenhouse effect then. Now we have other forms of energy, means of reducing pollution, clear skies etc,.

I then come to the reality of DEMAND. If we regulate to stop development of projects here then they are simply built overseas as demand will always create the result. If we stop logging in Australia more logging will be done overseas. So the net effect of regulation is that the world is not helped but Australia is economically disadvantaged. If we were not disadvantaged it is plausible that our economy would grow faster, our wealth would grow and our ability to care more for the disadvantaged and take more world refugees would be enhanced.


I know that what I have said is contoversial and open to challenge (or more commonly ridicule on this board) but I have not simply listened to teachers and greenies. I have done some research on the subject and have used my thought processes to come to a conclusion rather than just become a parrot of someone elses brain. I urge others to do the same
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ps ALF...please don't respond

Ok, I do agree with a lot that is said(this is a first for me, agreeing with Froddo). Global Warming is Slightly exagerated, mainly gy environmentalists. Tests have proven that only miniscule changes in temperature on average around the world have been recorded BUT also tests have proven that the average temperature in Antarctica has increased much more, and it is no surprise that when the atmosphere was tested there a high amount of greenhouse gasses were found, as they have been blown south. This has caused the antarctic to begin to defrost, with a few world renound glaciers already gone, and the water eels have already increased around the world. But, they are all very minor, slow and steady BUT STILL THERE and now a conserted effort is being made by many places to stop this accelerating, with the new energy sources etc that you suggested Froddo.

Also, I was glad you pointed out that plants grow better in a richer Carbon Dioxide environment, this is there food along with water. More Carbon Dioxide then more food. What MY problem with deforestation is the salt problem it brings about. In Australia alone a lot of farm land has been rendered useless due to the growing salt problem, bought about be cutting down old growth forests, and just general forests Australia Wide. Much of the desert is also covered by salt. Erosion around rivers where trees once stood is also a major issue.
My main point of this is your point in demand, and that if we stop logging here, it will only happen more overseas. Well, Fine, let them deal with the side effects, increasing salt problems, mass erosion. The almighty dollar should not rule us when it comes to this issue. I have recently researched and 70% of places where old growth forrets were that have been felled now have salt problems. Is that what we want? Fell the trees, make some money but then render that land useless, I think not.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Frodo
So Beazley will sign the Kyoto protocol if he gets in power.

That's at least one plant worth $1 Billion in WA on the drwaing boards that will be scrapped. How many more in Australia.

What an economic miracle worker he is

Excuse me for believing that we should look after the world today so that my son (and the children of others) have something to inherit tomorrow.

Global warming is real.

 

[Frodo]

Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by Dave


Excuse me for believing that we should look after the world today so that my son (and the children of others) have something to inherit tomorrow. ]I guarantee they will. God didn't create such a fantastic feat of nature for man to have the ability to defeat him.

Global warming is real.

PROPAGANDA

[/QUOTE

 

[Pessimistic]

Just on the environment.

I used to be in the oil business and I worked all over the world and NEVER used sunscreen.

Later in life I come to Australia and burn easily whenever there is a strong sunny day.

Something is happening, whether it's ozone or not I don't know

 

[Dave]

Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by Frodo
I guarantee they will. God didn't create such a fantastic feat of nature for man to have the ability to defeat him.

I'm sure that's of great comfort to the many millions who have died at the hand of man over the centuries. But supposing you are correct, from what I recall of sunday school God gave man free will and does not interfere in mortal affairs. This being the case if WE do not look after our planet, who will?

Global warming is real.

PROPAGANDA

I'm sure that will ease the minds of the inhabitants of a certain pacific island no end. When they no longer have somehwre to live in a few years time thanks to rising sea levels you go over and tell them it's all just PROPAGANDA.

When I was a kid I can remember in winter we'd get a frost on the garden nearly every day. Now? I can remember the last time I saw one. Guess that's just more PROPAGANDA.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by Frodo

Originally posted by Dave


Excuse me for believing that we should look after the world today so that my son (and the children of others) have something to inherit tomorrow. ]I guarantee they will. God didn't create such a fantastic feat of nature for man to have the ability to defeat him.

Global warming is real.

PROPAGANDA

[/QUOTE

Thats what James Hardie group said about asbestos

 

[eagleskickass]

Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by Frodo

Originally posted by Dave


Excuse me for believing that we should look after the world today so that my son (and the children of others) have something to inherit tomorrow. ]I guarantee they will. God didn't create such a fantastic feat of nature for man to have the ability to defeat him.

Global warming is real.

PROPAGANDA

[/QUOTE

And God did not create Man so that God could do everything for us, we must take up the innitiative and help ourselves, as God intended us to do. God is in control, but he expects us to think and act for ourselves in our best interests too.

 

[Frodo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by eagleskickass


And God did not create Man so that God could do everything for us, we must take up the innitiative and help ourselves, as God intended us to do. God is in control, but he expects us to think and act for ourselves in our best interests too.

And we can help ourselves by building downstream processing plants.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by Frodo


And we can help ourselves by building downstream processing plants.

and by encouraging more people to become teachers...

 

[eagleskickass]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by Frodo


And we can help ourselves by building downstream processing plants.

and looking after the environment we live in!

 

[Frodo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by eagleskickass


and looking after the environment we live in!

AND BY VOTING LIBERAL

 

[eagleskickass]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you Mr, Beazley

Originally posted by Frodo


AND BY VOTING LIBERAL

lol
I think you meant
AND BY VOTING LABOUR

 

[Chilli Afterglow]

A political discussion that ended up as a theological debate!

Dangerous bedfellows!