The 2008 Puzzle

[TheLeftFist8]

While the past few weeks have been about making the finals in 07, barring any miracles their most important facet has been about piecing together the jigsaw of our 2008 team.

Couple of questions:

1) Which pieces of the puzzle should/can be 'locked in'?

I'd like to start with:
- Bock at CHB
- Porplyzia up forward predominantly
- Hudson likely to remain lead ruck
- Welsh to be retained for another year...easily our best goalscorer

2) Which players are definites to be selected every week?

Mine:
- Bassett
- Bock
- Burton
- Goodwin
- McLeod
- Johncock
- Reilly
- Thompson
- van Berlo
- Rutten

 

[Southerntakeover]

While the past few weeks have been about making the finals in 07, barring any miracles their most important facet has been about piecing together the jigsaw of our 2008 team.

Couple of questions:

1) Which pieces of the puzzle should/can be 'locked in'?

I'd like to start with:
- Bock at CHB
- Porplyzia up forward predominantly
- Hudson likely to remain lead ruck
- Welsh to be retained for another year...easily our best goalscorer

2) Which players are definites to be selected every week?

Mine:
- Bassett
- Bock
- Burton
- Goodwin
- McLeod
- Johncock
- Reilly
- Thompson
- van Berlo
- Rutten

Id think that if Huddo is to be your lead ruck, hed be in your definites.

 

[Stiffy_18]

1)
- Bock to CHB please and LEAVE him there.
- Porplyzia into the midfield and rotating through the forward line. His hands in close are GOLD and should make him into a damaging midfielder. Needs to get fitter
- Mattner on the wing PLEASE

2) Barring inury
- Thompson
- van Berlo
- Bassett
- Edwards
- Hudson
- Johncock
- Knights
- McLeod
- Burton
- Rutten
- Reilly
- Goodwin
- Bock

 

[bobshoby]

Agree with the above, also delist doughty and replace him with one of our younger midfielders, campbell probably. If meesen is lost to Victoria then for the love of god get a good, young midfielder in the trade. We do not have long left with Goodwin, Edwards and Mcleod and we have to be prepared to fill the huge gap they will leave in the team. I actually suspect that much of the impetus behind playing mattner down back was Mcleod's inevitable retirement but that experiment has failed utterly and they're going to have to try someone else. If however we manage to retain meesen then get rid of perrie and start playing him or one of the other young forwards consistently, with a view to them replacing mcgregor at FF in 2009.

 

[pjcrows]

(Posted this also in the Pavlich thread, if a Mod wants to delete it from either thread then that's OK, just thought it was relevant to this one too)

Hypothetical:

OK, so, say we give up van Berlo and Griffin, plus a Top 20 pick that we get for trading Knights back to Melbourne, plus our first round pick, to Fremantle for Pavlich.

We give up Meesen to one of Carlton/Richmond/Melbourne for a Top 25 pick. We draft a young local ruckman with this pick, or trade it to Brisbane Lions for Cameron Wood who, apparently, wants to come home.

Trade Biglands to a St Kilda/Collingwood/Carlton, someone who needs an established proven ruckman, for whatever pick we get (I know, I love him too, but he's old).

Mattner stays on the list. Welsh... geez... I think we have to have him there.

This might potentially be our team in 2008.

Bassett - Rutten - Johncock
McLeod - Bock - Torney
Reilly - Thompson - Mattner
Edwards - Pavlich - Burton
Porplyzia - Hentschel - Welsh
Hudson - Goodwin - Shirley
Maric - Douglas - Massie - Gill

Blokes like Wood, Pfeiffer, Vince, Sellar, McIntyre, Hinge (maybe) and Tippett playing solid SANFL. Pfeiffer ready to go back pocket/flank if any problems. Wood ready to go in the ruck. And a string of younger draft picks plus the usual rookies. Keep Bodey on our list, but he'd have to stay fit. He gets one more chance.

Delist Perrie, McGregor, Doughty and Jericho.

So no Knights, van Berlo or Griffin - who I love, and who I have a lot of time for - for Pavlich, Wood, and draft picks.

Thoughts?

 

[bobshoby]

No, just no. We can not trade away the future of this club, our future captain in Van Berlo, a very promising Ruckman in Griffin and a good midfielder in Knights just for at most a 1 year window of opportunity. Goodwin and Edwards can't possibly have too much left in their bodies and I really don't want to experience a 3+ year rebuilding period trying to replace those 2 as well as Mcleod with brand new players.

 

[pjcrows]

No, just no. We can not trade away the future of this club, our future captain in Van Berlo, a very promising Ruckman in Griffin and a good midfielder in Knights just for at most a 1 year window of opportunity. Goodwin and Edwards can't possibly have too much left in their bodies and I really don't want to experience a 3+ year rebuilding period trying to replace those 2 as well as Mcleod with brand new players.

I see your side aswell, and I generally think we will go down the path you mentioned, and I would accept that. I'm just going the non-conservative path of securing Pavlish.

We would have Cameron Wood as our 3rd ruckman, and a developing Tippett as the 4th. Draft another young raw ruckman in the draft.

I like Knights, he is a ball magnet, but I just don't think that he has the disposal, efficiency or tackling pressure. I think he will easily play 200 games, wherever he plays, but we're talking about developing a Premiership team here. He is tradeable.

van Berlo is one of my favs, too. He is a gun. He is a future captain. Would I trade him to Fremantle for Pavlich? Yes, I would.

Not saying this will all happen. Just thinking about it.

 

[bobshoby]

I just think that if we trade that much out of the midfield then we would be royally boned if either Goodwin or Edwards copped a significant injury, which given their age and our luck over the last few years, would strike me as being a distinct possibility. No doubt we would have a potent forward line (god it feels wrong just typing it) and a very good backline but it leaves us very shallow in the middle. If we didn't have a chance for a long time then it would probably be a decent gamble, but all we need is for 1 or 2 of our multiple, potential KPPs to actually amount to something and we'd be in an even better situation.

 

[pjcrows]

I just think that if we trade that much out of the midfield then we would be royally boned if either Goodwin or Edwards copped a significant injury, which given their age and our luck over the last few years, would strike me as being a distinct possibility. No doubt we would have a potent forward line (god it feels wrong just typing it) and a very good backline but it leaves us very shallow in the middle. If we didn't have a chance for a long time then it would probably be a decent gamble, but all we need is for 1 or 2 of our multiple, potential KPPs to actually amount to something and we'd be in an even better situation.

I think youre dead right regarding our midfield - my 'crystal ball' does leave it a bit thin there - but in my opinion, our forward line is thinner than our midfield. You can have all the guns in the midfield that you want, but if no one can kick goals, you don't win.

Look at West Coast in 2005. Kerr, Judd, Cousins, Cox. No forward line. No flag. Then in 2006, Lynch and Hansen play some half-decent footy with the same midfield. They win.

 

[bobshoby]

Neil Craig doesn't strike me as much of a gambler so I don't think it'll happen anyway. If only we'd picked him up when we had the chance...

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Id think that if Huddo is to be your lead ruck, hed be in your definites.

Of course, just leaving a little room open in case our other rucks come on quickly and supercede him by the end of next year.

I guess he would be part of a second 'almost definite' list comprising:
- Hentschel (? recovery from injury)
- Edwards
- Hudson
- Welsh
- Porplyzia
- Stevens
- Torney (in on current form, but is an elder statesman who would have to performing at a very high consistent level to keep his spot)

That would leave a solid core, with perhaps a vacant wing (Mattner/Knights), CHF (maybe Gill), 2nd ruck, and a couple of bench spots to incorporate the young-uns.

All good in theory until you have 15 players on your injury list

 

[fightingdreamer88]

MacKay will make an impact next year. Bookmark it.

 

[coast2coast]

pjcrows: as much as it would hurt, i think your plan is realistic and would ultimately benefit us. we simply need pavlich that much.

knights is obviously a ball magnet but also hugely wasteful - making him prime trade bait. he's the type of player who wouldn't be *too* difficult to replace in the short to medium term.

losing vb and griffin would hurt a lot more but might be necessary. both have immense potential, but are they irreplaceable? probably not... especially if we could secure wood immediately as part of the deal.

if there was any chance of picking up either monfries (ok, unlikely) or jordan russell it would ease the pain of losing knights/vb.

 

[glengowan]

Would love to get Pavlich, but the possibility of that happening is not high.

There are a couple of players who have been the difference between being one of the better teams last year and being middle of the road this year. Trent Hentschel and Mark Ricciuto.

Hentschel is a star. The way he plays the game fitted in perfectly with the likes of Burton, McGregor and Perrie. He was equally comfortable in the goal square as he was setting up creative options from CHF. How he recovers from his knee injury remains to be seen. Fingers crossed he can get back to his best asap. Perhaps towards the end of '08 we can see some glimpses of what he can do again.

Ricciuto is unfortunately finished due to injury. His output throughout his career all the way up to last year even, when he was struggling to injury, was once in a generation type. He has been missed this year.

I think it is time to make some tough decisions on players in the off-season. Would be nice to replace some quantity with quality. Perrie, Welsh, McGregor, Gill are too many players who are not damaging enough. I'd probably only keep Welsh and McGregor and bring through Griffin as a forward option as well as Sellar with a pre-season under his belt.

Use Meesen as a trade to get a good young midfielder to help ease the burden of when Goodwin and Edwards retire.

The rest of improvement can come within the list. Bode, Porplyzia, Mattner, Douglas, Knights, Van Berlo etc.

Out
Ricciuto (retire)
Perrie (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Gill (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Jericho (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Meesen (trade for good player)

 

[maccas_no1]

Would love to get Pavlich, but the possibility of that happening is not high.

There are a couple of players who have been the difference between being one of the better teams last year and being middle of the road this year. Trent Hentschel and Mark Ricciuto.

Hentschel is a star. The way he plays the game fitted in perfectly with the likes of Burton, McGregor and Perrie. He was equally comfortable in the goal square as he was setting up creative options from CHF. How he recovers from his knee injury remains to be seen. Fingers crossed he can get back to his best asap. Perhaps towards the end of '08 we can see some glimpses of what he can do again.

Ricciuto is unfortunately finished due to injury. His output throughout his career all the way up to last year even, when he was struggling to injury, was once in a generation type. He has been missed this year.

I think it is time to make some tough decisions on players in the off-season. Would be nice to replace some quantity with quality. Perrie, Welsh, McGregor, Gill are too many players who are not damaging enough. I'd probably only keep Welsh and McGregor and bring through Griffin as a forward option as well as Sellar with a pre-season under his belt.

Use Meesen as a trade to get a good young midfielder to help ease the burden of when Goodwin and Edwards retire.

The rest of improvement can come within the list. Bode, Porplyzia, Mattner, Douglas, Knights, Van Berlo etc.

Out
Ricciuto (retire)
Perrie (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Gill (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Jericho (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Meesen (trade for good player)

You put Gill into the 'to hard basket'???? If the AFC have persisted with Jericho since 2003, then surely Gill gets at least another pre-season and another year to show what he has???? Has played three games now shown he is exciting, hard working, uses his body well, and can take a mark, yes we know his goal kicking is suspect, but he has kicked at least one goal in each of the games he has played, its something that needs work, and it is worth putting the work into IMO, stand him in front of the big sticks and say to him 'take 10 set shots' see how many he nails, see if his 'technique' can be worked with, but Gill is far from a lost cause, he wont shirk a contest, he follows up with good second efforts, and too me he has something to offer the AFC in 2008 and beyond

 

[Damp Squarie]

No, just no. We can not trade away the future of this club, our future captain in Van Berlo, a very promising Ruckman in Griffin and a good midfielder in Knights just for at most a 1 year window of opportunity. Goodwin and Edwards can't possibly have too much left in their bodies and I really don't want to experience a 3+ year rebuilding period trying to replace those 2 as well as Mcleod with brand new players.

What he said ^^ Leave our future alone!

 

[Damp Squarie]

Perrie (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Gill (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Jericho (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Meesen (trade for good player)

Agree on Perrie
We should keep Gill though.
The jury is still out on Jericho unless he develops defensively (over summer)
Whos Meesen?

 

[johnnypanther]

You put Gill into the 'to hard basket'???? If the AFC have persisted with Jericho since 2003, then surely Gill gets at least another pre-season and another year to show what he has???? Has played three games now shown he is exciting, hard working, uses his body well, and can take a mark, yes we know his goal kicking is suspect, but he has kicked at least one goal in each of the games he has played, its something that needs work, and it is worth putting the work into IMO, stand him in front of the big sticks and say to him 'take 10 set shots' see how many he nails, see if his 'technique' can be worked with, but Gill is far from a lost cause, he wont shirk a contest, he follows up with good second efforts, and too me he has something to offer the AFC in 2008 and beyond

i'ld just like to add to that: Gill is only 1 year older than Damon White

IMO i think that we should be looking at Gill not as a KPP but rather as a 3rd forward or a utility/midfielder type

 

[lunacy]

(Posted this also in the Pavlich thread, if a Mod wants to delete it from either thread then that's OK, just thought it was relevant to this one too)

Hypothetical:

OK, so, say we give up van Berlo and Griffin, plus a Top 20 pick that we get for trading Knights back to Melbourne, plus our first round pick, to Fremantle for Pavlich.

We give up Meesen to one of Carlton/Richmond/Melbourne for a Top 25 pick. We draft a young local ruckman with this pick, or trade it to Brisbane Lions for Cameron Wood who, apparently, wants to come home.

Trade Biglands to a St Kilda/Collingwood/Carlton, someone who needs an established proven ruckman, for whatever pick we get (I know, I love him too, but he's old).

Mattner stays on the list. Welsh... geez... I think we have to have him there.

This might potentially be our team in 2008.

Bassett - Rutten - Johncock
McLeod - Bock - Torney
Reilly - Thompson - Mattner
Edwards - Pavlich - Burton
Porplyzia - Hentschel - Welsh
Hudson - Goodwin - Shirley
Maric - Douglas - Massie - Gill

Blokes like Wood, Pfeiffer, Vince, Sellar, McIntyre, Hinge (maybe) and Tippett playing solid SANFL. Pfeiffer ready to go back pocket/flank if any problems. Wood ready to go in the ruck. And a string of younger draft picks plus the usual rookies. Keep Bodey on our list, but he'd have to stay fit. He gets one more chance.

Delist Perrie, McGregor, Doughty and Jericho.

So no Knights, van Berlo or Griffin - who I love, and who I have a lot of time for - for Pavlich, Wood, and draft picks.

Thoughts?

Sounds good re Pavlich, but not a lot of midfield depth for future. Of our proven midfielders only Reilly and Thompson would be there in 1-2 years. Looking at your line up (which does look good on paper when players were in their prime) the age of that list would be even older than now.

 

[lunacy]

I see your side aswell, and I generally think we will go down the path you mentioned, and I would accept that. I'm just going the non-conservative path of securing Pavlish.

We would have Cameron Wood as our 3rd ruckman, and a developing Tippett as the 4th. Draft another young raw ruckman in the draft.

I like Knights, he is a ball magnet, but I just don't think that he has the disposal, efficiency or tackling pressure. I think he will easily play 200 games, wherever he plays, but we're talking about developing a Premiership team here. He is tradeable.

van Berlo is one of my favs, too. He is a gun. He is a future captain. Would I trade him to Fremantle for Pavlich? Yes, I would.

Not saying this will all happen. Just thinking about it.

I guess the question here is do we have a realistic chance of winning a premiership in the next 1-2 years even if we did get Pavlich? I think no.

We cannot give up our future for Pavlich, because he will just see Goodwin, Edwards, Ricciuto, Mcleod, Torney, Bassett and probably Hudson all leave within about 2 years and play out his career with Adelaide finishing in the bottom eight. If we can get Pavlich for a bargain price (surely freo have learnt from the Groom/Mcleod days) that would be great, but I say we keep the core players of the future at our club and hopefully develop and recruit well over next few years.

 

[lunacy]

I just think that if we trade that much out of the midfield then we would be royally boned if either Goodwin or Edwards copped a significant injury, which given their age and our luck over the last few years, would strike me as being a distinct possibility. No doubt we would have a potent forward line (god it feels wrong just typing it) and a very good backline but it leaves us very shallow in the middle. If we didn't have a chance for a long time then it would probably be a decent gamble, but all we need is for 1 or 2 of our multiple, potential KPPs to actually amount to something and we'd be in an even better situation.

I agree we'll have nothing in midfield if we trade VB, Knights and a promising young ruckman.

 

[lunacy]

I think it is time to make some tough decisions on players in the off-season. Would be nice to replace some quantity with quality. Perrie, Welsh, McGregor, Gill are too many players who are not damaging enough.

Out
Ricciuto (retire)
Perrie (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Gill (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Jericho (delist or trade up a pick if possible)
Meesen (trade for good player)

I totally agree with making tough decisions re 2008. But I don't think Perrie, Gill and Meesen can all be delisted/traded. Remember we'll need some depth and some depth that includes experienced players that can come in straight away and cover injuries/bad form.

I would keep all three on the list again in 2008 but I'd play Perrie in SANFL unless he was a real standout. Gill and Perrie very similar players/standard but Gill takes a better grab and can have an impact at ground level. Gill has overtaken Perrie IMO. If we can get an ok trade for Meesen I'd be happy, but I also wouldn't mind if he got 1 more year. At least there would be no doubts/regrets/question marks over him.

 

[Stiffy_18]

As much as I rate the guy and wish he could stay injury free, I think Bodster might be in a bit of trouble this year. I think he would be one player that will be delisted. Not for his football ability but because he just keeps breaking down. When was the last time he played the whole season?! He just keeps getting injured and missing long periods of time. Has the time come where the club wonders if its really worth taking the risk with Bode because history shows, he struggled to string games together due to injuries.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

As much as I rate the guy and wish he could stay injury free, I think Bodster might be in a bit of trouble this year. I think he would be one player that will be delisted. Not for his football ability but because he just keeps breaking down. When was the last time he played the whole season?! He just keeps getting injured and missing long periods of time. Has the time come where the club wonders if its really worth taking the risk with Bode because history shows, he struggled to string games together due to injuries.

unfortunately

Bode's best footy provides a great component to our team but surely as an injury prone small forward whose best (though not only) attribute is defensive pressure he is not irreplaceable for 08. Now he is fit, if we want the 'Bode' role filled, then why not give Campbell some extended time up there? Just doesn't seem to fit the structure at present but the point remains...Bode to go for 08 is harsh but fair.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

I would keep all three on the list again in 2008 but I'd play Perrie in SANFL unless he was a real standout. Gill and Perrie very similar players/standard but Gill takes a better grab and can have an impact at ground level. Gill has overtaken Perrie IMO. If we can get an ok trade for Meesen I'd be happy, but I also wouldn't mind if he got 1 more year. At least there would be no doubts/regrets/question marks over him.

The fact that Gill has played less than five games and already overtaken Perrie tells me that it's Ian who needs to go.