Mega Thread The 2016 Buckley Coaching Discussion

[swoop42]

The one thing we now need to factor in is if Richmond continue to struggle along with us this year they to might be looking for a new coach at some stage.

If neither side improves I don't think we'll be able to wait until seasons end to make the call on Buckley as we might end up not getting the pick of the bunch of the possible replacements.

 

[AmellyPies]

The one thing we now need to factor in is if Richmond continue to struggle along with us this year they to might be looking for a new coach at some stage.

If neither side improves I don't think we'll be able to wait until seasons end to make the call on Buckley as we might end up not getting the pick of the bunch of the possible replacements.

I think a few players will ask for trades if Bucks is sacked.

 

[BEEG]

Buckley can start improving this team by finding out exactly what West Coast do with Ruckman, they all seem to be very good for the last 15 years.

 

[jmac70]

That and the succession plan netted us two grand final appearances in a row and one premiership. I can't see us winning in 2010 without that decision in 2009. A point in this debate which often seems to get lost.

Why?

 

[jmac70]

I think a few players will ask for trades if Bucks is sacked.

I wouldn't think so.

 

[jmac70]

Massive massive trouble. Malthouse would be better with this group.

Don't be silly. We may well have a different coach in 2017 but there is zero chance of it being Malthouse, the guy is a pensioner now. Let's get someone a little more current.

 

[AmellyPies]

Massive massive trouble. Malthouse would be better with this group.

No. Shut up.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Don't be silly. We may well have a different coach in 2017 but there is zero chance of it being Malthouse, the guy is a pensioner now. Let's get someone a little more current.

No my point is he would be doing better with this current list. I think he would have better fitness staff in place and probably would've reinvented a game plan which suits Cloke.

 

[soreplums]

Don't be silly. We may well have a different coach in 2017 but there is zero chance of it being Malthouse, the guy is a pensioner now. Let's get someone a little more current.

I'd like to have Nathan Bassett and Tapping in the box with Bucks. Would also like a genuine ruck coach

 

[jmac70]

No my point is he would be doing better with this current list. I think he would have better fitness staff in place and probably would've reinvented a game plan which suits Cloke.

You can make that point until you are blue in the face, it's an irrelevant one though. All that matters is should Bucks continue next year or do we find a new coach? Mick is not part of that debate.

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

FYI - Here is a post by ROSCO on The Collingwood Blog that some of our fellow BOAF (Birds Of A Feather) may find useful:

Given that change is going to cause damage – and not just financially – you would only undertake it secure in the knowledge that [matters] could not possibly get worse and that there was a very, very good chance they would get measurably better.

My guess is that if the ship can be righted with a few wins over the next 6 weeks, the pressure will be temporarily released but the need to deal with realities wont disappear. Buckley will be given every possible chance to succeed and to that end I would tip a change to the assistant coaching panel to be on the cards, rather than a change of coach (with the exception being continued losses over the next month) and the hope would be they could find a Goodwin who has clearly had a positive influence at Melbourne even though he isn’t head coach (yet).

The biggest concern for me is that Buckley is forecasting a return to dour, defensive football in an attempt to manufacture a win.

This means the game plans that we saw demonstrated in the NAB cup – fast, open, transition footy that was supposedly drilled all summer – have been summarily turfed and he is reverting to type.

One can speculate therefore that the defensive rolling maul is the only style of footy he can coach or its the only style of footy the list is capable of playing and having a chance of winning, but either way its not a style of footy that is capable of regularly generating 25-30 shots on goal per game.

It also cannot succeed against sides who defend well AND transition quickly and efficiently – e.g Hawks, Dogs, Crows, Weagles – given the rule changes this year (and probably next year). In other words, its a game style that might allow you to cobble together enough wins to scrape into the eight, but it’s not a Top 4 game style and therefore not a premiership plan.

Given the youth of our list, one would logically assume that we would be drilling them in what was necessary to be a top four contender in the next three years and yet it seems we are travelling the other way to keep the wolves from the door.

All this will result in will be confusion and mediocrity.

It’s interesting that a similar predicament faces Ross Lyon with many observers tipping him to do the same – the difference of course is that Lyon has a 5 year deal and Freo’s inevitable list rebuild/rejuvenation is in front of him, whereas ours has been done.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay…

The ROSCO post above provides us with an insight as to where Buckley’s head is at at the mo – that is to say, he is (and here I’m paraphrasing) in survival mode.

Back to his old “defensive rolling maul” strategy.

This is not a good thing.

How so?

Well…

It suggests that Buckley lacks faith in his own tactics – the same tactics that were drilled into our players over the preseason.

Put another way…

It is, effectively, a veiled admission that our head coach does not know what he is doing.

Win , lose or draw this weekend, where do we go now in the AFL Sinai with our latter day footy Moses?

 

[mike123]

Our defenders aren't slow. The inability to hit the side of a barn means that we can't afford to play an offensive game plan. In an open game we're going to get done. We've got a list built for hard contested footy. It's the way we have to play to be competitive.

I think that is the biggest problem of our list. It's too reliant on work rate and pressure and our team doesn't have the energy to execute for a whole year. Then with the interchange cap and other rules like 10 metre space it makes it even harder to produce. We need to add class real quick.

FWIW I think our list has a strong core to build upon.

 

[Matt_352]

We cannot allow Richmond to get in first. We MUST get Stuart Dew.

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

You can make that point until you are blue in the face, it's an irrelevant one though. All that matters is should Bucks continue next year or do we find a new coach? Mick is not part of that debate.

This.

 

[Scodog10]

Thank you Mungo Mulligan Stew those comments from Rosco are a perfect summation of my thoughts on where we stand and my concerns for 2016 and beyond under Buckley.

I'll wait and see what our response is over the next month, but my gut feel is that going into our shells and shutting things down isn't going to be the best course of action. The main reason being I'm not sure you can just flick the switch and go back the other way once we've ground out a few wins...

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

We cannot allow Richmond to get in first. We MUST get Stuart Dew.

All in Dew course.

(Apologize? Never!)

 

[Matt_352]

All in Dew course.

(Apologize? Never!)

Haha good one

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

You know, Buckley spoke about how he planned for having Varcoe and Sidebottom so not having them really hurt. Which is effectively Buckley telling the world he relies on players, not systems. A good system doesn't need specific players to work.

Indeed. Buckley is kinda like the Goldilocks of AFL coaches - he needs each and every one, and everything, to be just right!

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

[giggle]

Noticed the new designation under my avatar is now THE BEAST.

Kinda flattered.

Good hack.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I think a few players will ask for trades if Bucks is sacked.

lol, no

 

[Leviathan Pie]

FYI - Here is a post by ROSCO on The Collingwood Blog that some of our fellow BOAF (Birds Of A Feather) may find useful:

Given that change is going to cause damage – and not just financially – you would only undertake it secure in the knowledge that [matters] could not possibly get worse and that there was a very, very good chance they would get measurably better.

My guess is that if the ship can be righted with a few wins over the next 6 weeks, the pressure will be temporarily released but the need to deal with realities wont disappear. Buckley will be given every possible chance to succeed and to that end I would tip a change to the assistant coaching panel to be on the cards, rather than a change of coach (with the exception being continued losses over the next month) and the hope would be they could find a Goodwin who has clearly had a positive influence at Melbourne even though he isn’t head coach (yet).

The biggest concern for me is that Buckley is forecasting a return to dour, defensive football in an attempt to manufacture a win.

This means the game plans that we saw demonstrated in the NAB cup – fast, open, transition footy that was supposedly drilled all summer – have been summarily turfed and he is reverting to type.

One can speculate therefore that the defensive rolling maul is the only style of footy he can coach or its the only style of footy the list is capable of playing and having a chance of winning, but either way its not a style of footy that is capable of regularly generating 25-30 shots on goal per game.

It also cannot succeed against sides who defend well AND transition quickly and efficiently – e.g Hawks, Dogs, Crows, Weagles – given the rule changes this year (and probably next year). In other words, its a game style that might allow you to cobble together enough wins to scrape into the eight, but it’s not a Top 4 game style and therefore not a premiership plan.

Given the youth of our list, one would logically assume that we would be drilling them in what was necessary to be a top four contender in the next three years and yet it seems we are travelling the other way to keep the wolves from the door.

All this will result in will be confusion and mediocrity.

It’s interesting that a similar predicament faces Ross Lyon with many observers tipping him to do the same – the difference of course is that Lyon has a 5 year deal and Freo’s inevitable list rebuild/rejuvenation is in front of him, whereas ours has been done.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay…

The ROSCO post above provides us with an insight as to where Buckley’s head is at at the mo – that is to say, he is (and here I’m paraphrasing) in survival mode.

Back to his old “defensive rolling maul” strategy.

This is not a good thing.

How so?

Well…

It suggests that Buckley lacks faith in his own tactics – the same tactics that were drilled into our players over the preseason.

Put another way…

It is, effectively, a veiled admission that our head coach does not know what he is doing.

Win , lose or draw this weekend, where do we go now in the AFL Sinai with our latter day footy Moses?

Outstanding from both yourself, and Rosco.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

[giggle]

Noticed the new designation under my avatar is now THE BEAST.

Kinda flattered.

Good hack.

The Beast lasts all of one post
666
Then back to the regulars tags

 

[BEEG]

Richmond vs Collingwood for a coach wouldn't be much of a challenge, coaching Richmond is career suicide.

 

[JB1975]

FYI - Here is a post by ROSCO on The Collingwood Blog that some of our fellow BOAF (Birds Of A Feather) may find useful:

Given that change is going to cause damage – and not just financially – you would only undertake it secure in the knowledge that [matters] could not possibly get worse and that there was a very, very good chance they would get measurably better.

My guess is that if the ship can be righted with a few wins over the next 6 weeks, the pressure will be temporarily released but the need to deal with realities wont disappear. Buckley will be given every possible chance to succeed and to that end I would tip a change to the assistant coaching panel to be on the cards, rather than a change of coach (with the exception being continued losses over the next month) and the hope would be they could find a Goodwin who has clearly had a positive influence at Melbourne even though he isn’t head coach (yet).

The biggest concern for me is that Buckley is forecasting a return to dour, defensive football in an attempt to manufacture a win.

This means the game plans that we saw demonstrated in the NAB cup – fast, open, transition footy that was supposedly drilled all summer – have been summarily turfed and he is reverting to type.

One can speculate therefore that the defensive rolling maul is the only style of footy he can coach or its the only style of footy the list is capable of playing and having a chance of winning, but either way its not a style of footy that is capable of regularly generating 25-30 shots on goal per game.

It also cannot succeed against sides who defend well AND transition quickly and efficiently – e.g Hawks, Dogs, Crows, Weagles – given the rule changes this year (and probably next year). In other words, its a game style that might allow you to cobble together enough wins to scrape into the eight, but it’s not a Top 4 game style and therefore not a premiership plan.

Given the youth of our list, one would logically assume that we would be drilling them in what was necessary to be a top four contender in the next three years and yet it seems we are travelling the other way to keep the wolves from the door.

All this will result in will be confusion and mediocrity.

It’s interesting that a similar predicament faces Ross Lyon with many observers tipping him to do the same – the difference of course is that Lyon has a 5 year deal and Freo’s inevitable list rebuild/rejuvenation is in front of him, whereas ours has been done.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay…

The ROSCO post above provides us with an insight as to where Buckley’s head is at at the mo – that is to say, he is (and here I’m paraphrasing) in survival mode.

Back to his old “defensive rolling maul” strategy.

This is not a good thing.

How so?

Well…

It suggests that Buckley lacks faith in his own tactics – the same tactics that were drilled into our players over the preseason.

Put another way…

It is, effectively, a veiled admission that our head coach does not know what he is doing.

Win , lose or draw this weekend, where do we go now in the AFL Sinai with our latter day footy Moses?

Thanks for your thoughts, and for passing on ROSCO's thoughts. However, those thoughts are very much guesswork, based on the interpretation of Buckley's comments this week, and I haven't interpreted his comments in the same way.

Our defensive pressure has been laughable this year, and I've interpreted his comments as a recognition that we cannot continue to get close to winning games of football without shutting the floodgates. While the dynamic ball movement of the NAB games is all fine and good, it needs to be balanced by defensive structures. Buckley, I'd suggest, wants to get the balance right.

The other thing is --and I've made this point before and so apologise for repetition-- is that defensive pressure and forward ball movement are inextricably linked. If we are coughing the ball up too easily in our forward half, or if our lapses in the back half are too frequently resulting in a scoring opportunity for the opposition, then we are inevitably going to be more static and conservative in moving the ball forward. It makes sense to tighten up our defensive mindset as a foundation for taking the game on.

As I say, it's all a game of interpretation at the moment and we'll find out what's what soon enough. I will end on a note of agreement, though, which is that any attempt by Bucks to throw the baby out with the bathwater would indeed be a massive failure. Adaptation is key for evolution.

 

[PicaBoo]

FYI - Here is a post by ROSCO on The Collingwood Blog that some of our fellow BOAF (Birds Of A Feather) may find useful:

Given that change is going to cause damage – and not just financially – you would only undertake it secure in the knowledge that [matters] could not possibly get worse and that there was a very, very good chance they would get measurably better.

My guess is that if the ship can be righted with a few wins over the next 6 weeks, the pressure will be temporarily released but the need to deal with realities wont disappear. Buckley will be given every possible chance to succeed and to that end I would tip a change to the assistant coaching panel to be on the cards, rather than a change of coach (with the exception being continued losses over the next month) and the hope would be they could find a Goodwin who has clearly had a positive influence at Melbourne even though he isn’t head coach (yet).

The biggest concern for me is that Buckley is forecasting a return to dour, defensive football in an attempt to manufacture a win.

This means the game plans that we saw demonstrated in the NAB cup – fast, open, transition footy that was supposedly drilled all summer – have been summarily turfed and he is reverting to type.

One can speculate therefore that the defensive rolling maul is the only style of footy he can coach or its the only style of footy the list is capable of playing and having a chance of winning, but either way its not a style of footy that is capable of regularly generating 25-30 shots on goal per game.

It also cannot succeed against sides who defend well AND transition quickly and efficiently – e.g Hawks, Dogs, Crows, Weagles – given the rule changes this year (and probably next year). In other words, its a game style that might allow you to cobble together enough wins to scrape into the eight, but it’s not a Top 4 game style and therefore not a premiership plan.

Given the youth of our list, one would logically assume that we would be drilling them in what was necessary to be a top four contender in the next three years and yet it seems we are travelling the other way to keep the wolves from the door.

All this will result in will be confusion and mediocrity.

It’s interesting that a similar predicament faces Ross Lyon with many observers tipping him to do the same – the difference of course is that Lyon has a 5 year deal and Freo’s inevitable list rebuild/rejuvenation is in front of him, whereas ours has been done.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay…

The ROSCO post above provides us with an insight as to where Buckley’s head is at at the mo – that is to say, he is (and here I’m paraphrasing) in survival mode.

Back to his old “defensive rolling maul” strategy.

This is not a good thing.

How so?

Well…

It suggests that Buckley lacks faith in his own tactics – the same tactics that were drilled into our players over the preseason.

Put another way…

It is, effectively, a veiled admission that our head coach does not know what he is doing.

Win , lose or draw this weekend, where do we go now in the AFL Sinai with our latter day footy Moses?

Excellent posts. A conclusion that needs a bit of tweaking.
Bucks might have faith but is realistic enough to know that wins and only wins will silence the crowd for now. And ugly wins too if necessary. It is where removing the distraction becomes the main focus.
The 3 recent failures doesn't give me any confidence in the player group in its current state being able to execute the NAB game plan. That we had that free flowing playing style in the first place indicates Bucks knows that is the way forward.

Imagine him saying he is not going to chang anything . Plodding on till it does come togetherand then face the axe for missing out on finals. He doesn't have the currency. Maybe he thas the backing rom the board but they too can hold off the distractors only for so long.
Take a step back, get basics right, a few wins to get the spirits back up and meanwhile see how we can get back on track.