Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[BringouttheGimp]

Anyone know the direct e-mail address for Gary Pert.

Did you want the football depts email as well?

Here you go:

DHs@cfc.com.au

 

[BringouttheGimp]

To me this tells you everything about why Collingwood have been mediocre since 1958. We will get yesteryears best coach, we won't risk a young turk, because our ego won't let us. We'll get Clarkson or Roos and spend another 5 years wandering somewhere between 12th and 6th. Be brave Ed, get a hungry innovative coach. Hawthorn did it. The bulldogs did it. If we get Clarkson it'll be Pagan/Barassi/Norm Smith all over again. Get somebody new.

How old is Clarkson?

And i think an interview process would suffice. If he's eager he'll obviously impress. If not.. dead giveaway if he's doing it for the 1.5mil pay packet.

Mate.. the bloke has got another 10 yrs left in him at the very least you'd think.

 

[Dxmxgxd]

If Buckley is sacked or resigns in either event; who do people genuinely want to see take the job. I for one would want somebody who has no prior link to the club what so ever. I do not want Roos as I don't see him as the Messiah people say he is. I think Ratten or Dew are the best options

 

[Countrypie]

How old is Clarkson?

And i think an interview process would suffice. If he's eager he'll obviously impress. If not.. dead giveaway if he's doing it for the 1.5mil pay packet.

Mate.. the bloke has got another 10 yrs left in him at the very least you'd think.

1/Is he hungry? Don't think so.
2/Has he had a charmed run? Probably
3/Will we get him? Probably
4/ Will it improve things? See answer 1

 

[Countrypie]

If Buckley is sacked or resigns in either event; who do people genuinely want to see take the job. I for one would want somebody who has no prior link to the club what so ever. I do not want Roos as I don't see him as the Messiah people say he is. I think Ratten or Dew are the best options

Dew, Tudor, maybe someone from left field. here's a couple that Should be interviewed.
Gotch, Tapping.

then again, we could turn things around....

 

[Ugene41]

To me this tells you everything about why Collingwood have been mediocre since 1958. We will get yesteryears best coach, we won't risk a young turk, because our ego won't let us. We'll get Clarkson or Roos and spend another 5 years wandering somewhere between 12th and 6th. Be brave Ed, get a hungry innovative coach. Hawthorn did it. The bulldogs did it. If we get Clarkson it'll be Pagan/Barassi/Norm Smith all over again. Get somebody new.

Yea let's take a risk on a young turk. Someone like Bucks!

 

[Countrypie]

Yea let's take a risk on a young turk. Someone like Bucks!

I'd rather we did a full interview process and picked the best guy. A resume is a list of past glories nothing else. We pick the guy who's ahead of teh game, who wants t like Clarko did 10 years ago. not some self satisfied smug been there and done it has been

 

[HFF]

To me this tells you everything about why Collingwood have been mediocre since 1958. We will get yesteryears best coach, we won't risk a young turk, because our ego won't let us. We'll get Clarkson or Roos and spend another 5 years wandering somewhere between 12th and 6th. Be brave Ed, get a hungry innovative coach. Hawthorn did it. The bulldogs did it. If we get Clarkson it'll be Pagan/Barassi/Norm Smith all over again. Get somebody new.

What would you classify Buckley?
He's a "young turk" and he has miserably failed.
If you think appointing him wasn't an ego trip you are already in denial.

The facts are Roos and Clarkson can still cut it with the best- as they are among the best.
Let's not kid ourselves here.

Your comparison to Pagan/Barassi etc is not reflective of the true situation at hand.

 

[Countrypie]

What would you classify Buckley?
He's a "young turk" and he has miserably failed.
If you think appointing him wasn't an ego trip you are already in denial.

The facts are Roos and Clarkson can still cut it with the best- as they are among the best.
Let's not kid ourselves here.

Your comparison to Pagan/Barassi etc is not reflective of the true situation at hand.

The Buckley situation is a case in point. There was no search, there was an anointing. If we anoint Clarkson we will get mediocre results If we anoint Roos it will be worse. If they are the best candidate after an exhaustive process so be it. Clarko has been reading his own press releases for 12 months - we missed the boat. Roos will take us backwards. Do a proper vetting process and pick the best candidate going forward, not with an eye on the rearview mirror.
Very few premiership coaches have moved to a second club and experienced success. Tom Hafey never won a premiership after Richmond. Malthouse took 10 years and even then had to see his own coaching mortality waved in front of his eyes. The "great" Norm Smith got South Melbourne to one losing semi final Pagan and Jeasauenko were abject failures as was Toney Jewell. Parkin defied the odds but was basically bought a premiership at Carlton where the players have said that they coached themselves despite his interference. Careful what you wish for...it might come true and leave you totally dissatisfied after the initial thrill of anticipation.
IF Buckley goes then let's do a proper recruitment process. "getting Clarko" without proper due diligence is guaranteeing failure....that's the Collingwood way....then watch this board turn like a pack of rabid dogs when success does not come.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

1/Is he hungry? Don't think so.
2/Has he had a charmed run? Probably
3/Will we get him? Probably
4/ Will it improve things? See answer 1

Interesting.. when the bloke is a competitive beast.

 

[Countrypie]

Interesting.. when the bloke is a competitive beast.

hence the trading of Mitchell and Lewis and the recruiting of Vickery you wouldn't forgive Bucks for such an obvious stuff up, nor would I expect you to. Clarko has been massive. I just wonder if he still is..and remember he had the gift of early draft picks for two or three years land in his lap....you can be JC himself, but if you haven't got any socks you can't pull em up.
I don't want to make finals I want to win a premiership. I spent 28 years alive before I saw one and 20 years before I saw another. That isn't good enough.
A coach won;t change a lot, he'll maybe extract an extra 5%. Right now that isn't enough. We need to improve across the board something like 20%.
To do that we may have to go backwards first. So be it
To be brutally honest, Buckley's biggest mistake was not pruning deeper earlier...and I'll wager he didn;t because he was too close emotionally to the club. We would have bottomed out and got some decent picks. That's what good sides are built on without exception.

 

[HFF]

The Buckley situation is a case in point. There was no search, there was an anointing. If we anoint Clarkson we will get mediocre results If we anoint Roos it will be worse. If they are the best candidate after an exhaustive process so be it. Clarko has been reading his own press releases for 12 months - we missed the boat. Roos will take us backwards. Do a proper vetting process and pick the best candidate going forward, not with an eye on the rearview mirror.
Very few premiership coaches have moved to a second club and experienced success. Tom Hafey never won a premiership after Richmond. Malthouse took 10 years and even then had to see his own coaching mortality waved in front of his eyes. The "great" Norm Smith got South Melbourne to one losing semi final Pagan and Jeasauenko were abject failures as was Toney Jewell. Parkin defied the odds but was basically bought a premiership at Carlton where the players have said that they coached themselves despite his interference. Careful what you wish for...it might come true and leave you totally dissatisfied after the initial thrill of anticipation.
IF Buckley goes then let's do a proper recruitment process. "getting Clarko" without proper due diligence is guaranteeing failure....that's the Collingwood way....then watch this board turn like a pack of rabid dogs when success does not come.

Do you remember what Melbourne were before Roos arrived?

He left the place in far better shape.
He turned them right around and they were considered a basket case.

Clarko whilst I didn't like his "handling" of Mitchell and Lewis is a proven performer.

Sure, it could turn sour after the anticipation of getting him but at the end of the day, how much worse can it be than the 6yrs we've put up with Buckley?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

The Buckley situation is a case in point. There was no search, there was an anointing. If we anoint Clarkson we will get mediocre results If we anoint Roos it will be worse. If they are the best candidate after an exhaustive process so be it. Clarko has been reading his own press releases for 12 months - we missed the boat. Roos will take us backwards. Do a proper vetting process and pick the best candidate going forward, not with an eye on the rearview mirror.
Very few premiership coaches have moved to a second club and experienced success. Tom Hafey never won a premiership after Richmond. Malthouse took 10 years and even then had to see his own coaching mortality waved in front of his eyes. The "great" Norm Smith got South Melbourne to one losing semi final Pagan and Jeasauenko were abject failures as was Toney Jewell. Parkin defied the odds but was basically bought a premiership at Carlton where the players have said that they coached themselves despite his interference. Careful what you wish for...it might come true and leave you totally dissatisfied after the initial thrill of anticipation.
IF Buckley goes then let's do a proper recruitment process. "getting Clarko" without proper due diligence is guaranteeing failure....that's the Collingwood way....then watch this board turn like a pack of rabid dogs when success does not come.

Really is difficult to say how we'd go with Clarkson. Like with any other coach.

hence the trading of Mitchell and Lewis and the recruiting of Vickery you wouldn't forgive Bucks for such an obvious stuff up, nor would I expect you to. Clarko has been massive. I just wonder if he still is..and remember he had the gift of early draft picks for two or three years land in his lap....you can be JC himself, but if you haven't got any socks you can't pull em up.
I don't want to make finals I want to win a premiership. I spent 28 years alive before I saw one and 20 years before I saw another. That isn't good enough.
A coach won;t change a lot, he'll maybe extract an extra 5%. Right now that isn't enough. We need to improve across the board something like 20%.
To do that we may have to go backwards first. So be it
To be brutally honest, Buckley's biggest mistake was not pruning deeper earlier...and I'll wager he didn;t because he was too close emotionally to the club. We would have bottomed out and got some decent picks. That's what good sides are built on without exception.

You make a lot of points worth looking at.

Clarko has been a senior coach for 12-13 yrs now. If his position becomes untenable at Hawthorn this yr.. you're more or less saying he's done and dusted with. A genius coach shouldn't be looked at.

What's in his head space.. does he still have the hunger to want to coach elsewhere.

Are you aware we have players all across the board that are high draft picks? And players I feel haven't been given enough game time to prove themselves. Or players that are so disenchantment with The Buckley Regime that they can't help but perform below par. These are just a few of many.

There are so many variables you have chosen to overlook.

 

[No SPIN]

The Buckley situation is a case in point. There was no search, there was an anointing. If we anoint Clarkson we will get mediocre results If we anoint Roos it will be worse. If they are the best candidate after an exhaustive process so be it. Clarko has been reading his own press releases for 12 months - we missed the boat. Roos will take us backwards. Do a proper vetting process and pick the best candidate going forward, not with an eye on the rearview mirror.
Very few premiership coaches have moved to a second club and experienced success. Tom Hafey never won a premiership after Richmond. Malthouse took 10 years and even then had to see his own coaching mortality waved in front of his eyes. The "great" Norm Smith got South Melbourne to one losing semi final Pagan and Jeasauenko were abject failures as was Toney Jewell. Parkin defied the odds but was basically bought a premiership at Carlton where the players have said that they coached themselves despite his interference. Careful what you wish for...it might come true and leave you totally dissatisfied after the initial thrill of anticipation.
IF Buckley goes then let's do a proper recruitment process. "getting Clarko" without proper due diligence is guaranteeing failure....that's the Collingwood way....then watch this board turn like a pack of rabid dogs when success does not come.

Yes lets overlook the most successful coach of recent time and go for a complete unknown.
Now that definitely would cause meltdown on this board.

Also you conveniently forget MM was part of the succession plan - Eddie didn't intend Bucks to go it alone, he knew he wasn't ready.

 

[Countrypie]

Do you remember what Melbourne were before Roos arrived?

He left the place in far better shape.
He turned them right around and they were considered a basket case.

Clarko whilst I didn't like his "handling" of Mitchell and Lewis is a proven performer.

Sure, it could turn sour after the anticipation of getting him but at the end of the day, how much worse can it be than the 6yrs we've put up with Buckley?

It could well turn out fine, but unless we conduct a thorough search we're repeating the same mistake albeit in a different format. We have never conducted a thorough coaching process. NEVER. It's time we did. Clarko may well be the best coach available ( I hear we're already into him) but let's not just assume he is. FWIW we don;t need Roos, we need a polisher and a couple of decent draft picks

 

[Countrypie]

Really is difficult to say how we'd go with Clarkson. Like with any other coach.


You make a lot of points worth looking at.

Clarko has been a senior coach for 12-13 yrs now. If his position becomes untenable at Hawthorn this yr.. you're more or less saying he's done and dusted with. A genius coach shouldn't be looked at.

What's in his head space.. does he still have the hunger to want to coach elsewhere.

Are you aware we have players all across the board that are high draft picks? And players I feel haven't been given enough game time to prove themselves. Or players that are so disenchantment with The Buckley Regime that they can't help but perform below par. These are just a few of many.

There are so many variables you have chosen to overlook.

I'm not overlooking variables, I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket.

 

[Countrypie]

Yes lets overlook the most successful coach of recent time and go for a complete unknown.
Now that definitely would cause meltdown on this board.

Also you conveniently forget MM was part of the succession plan - Eddie didn't intend Bucks to go it alone, he knew he wasn't ready.

I'm well aware of the succession plan nd all its twists and turns. Without it we may never have won in 2010 - with it we condemned Buckley to what he is. I sincerely hope he leaves Collingwood and gets another gig elsewhere without the millstone that this club placed around his neck. When Clarko was appointed he was an unknown, WHen Beveridge was appointed he was unknown. Those appointments took courage. Appointing a name coach is safe in the short term. We do not have the players to deliver a Hawthorn style game. We just don't. Let this board meltdown - there'll be nothing new in that.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I'm not overlooking variables, I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket.

You're really chatting about the great unknown here.. one thing is a certainty though.. they will not play as bad as they have been for the last few yrs under Buckley.

I'm happy with Ckarko.. Dew.. Tudor.

But like you say.. due diligence should be exercised.

A panel of experts in the field 'who are not involved in the club' to appoint a coach. I wouldn't like Ed whispering in Perts ear whispering in whoever else's ear they have Friday night drinks with in the boardroom.

 

[No SPIN]

I'm well aware of the succession plan nd all its twists and turns. Without it we may never have won in 2010 - with it we condemned Buckley to what he is. I sincerely hope he leaves Collingwood and gets another gig elsewhere without the millstone that this club placed around his neck. When Clarko was appointed he was an unknown, WHen Beveridge was appointed he was unknown. Those appointments took courage. Appointing a name coach is safe in the short term. We do not have the players to deliver a Hawthorn style game. We just don't. Let this board meltdown - there'll be nothing new in that.

Here's a list of well intentioned 'newbie" appointments using thorough DD that all failed.
Neeld, Watters, McCartney, Leppa and there are far far more, including virtually every Richmond coach for the last 20 years, .

History is not your friend here - it confirms there is a low probability of success with your approach.

 

[Countrypie]

You're really chatting about the great unknown here.. one thing is a certainty though.. they will not play as bad as they have been for the last few yrs under Buckley.

I'm happy with Ckarko.. Dew.. Tudor.

But like you say.. due diligence should be exercised.

A panel of experts in the field 'who are not involved in the club' to appoint a coach. I wouldn't like Ed whispering in Perts ear whispering in whoever else's ear they have Friday night drinks with in the boardroom.

Pretty much agree with that, although I think any improvement will be minimal. Until there is a critical mass of players with the right blend of experience and skill you can expect fluctuations in form and performance. Buckley hs had long enough, I agree,as I said, the only mistake he really made was not to cut deeper and go through a few years of bottom 2. We may end up there anyway, but its more likely we're going to hover between 8th an 13th for the next 5 years and that is the Bermuda triangle of drafting

 

[Countrypie]

Here's a list of well intentioned 'newbie" appointments using thorough DD that all failed.
Neeld, Watters, McCartney, Leppa and there are far far more, including virtually every Richmond coach for the last 20 years, .

History is not your friend here - it confirms there is a low probability of success with your approach.

ANy coaching appointment will have the same ratio. Due diligence. get the right coach. If its Clarko great...let's not assume it is. That's stupidity written with a capital COLLINGWOOD In any case if Clarko was coaching now we might scrape into the 8 that would be all.
There are people on here who think Fasolo is a good player. Fasolo would not get a game wit any legitimate finals contender.

 

[Sleuth1]

It is time for Bucks to host a BBQ, Malthouse style, to boost the morale of our deflated supporters and team. Then he suffers MM fate at Carlton if they keep underperforming. But we might need a rally outside the Holden Centre before Eddie swallows his pride.

 

[Maggie5]

If Buckley were to be given his marching orders, I wouldn't mind Ratten.
I didn't think he did too badly at Carlton with the players he had.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

ANy coaching appointment will have the same ratio. Due diligence. get the right coach. If its Clarko great...let's not assume it is. That's stupidity written with a capital COLLINGWOOD In any case if Clarko was coaching now we might scrape into the 8 that would be all.
There are people on here who think Fasolo is a good player. Fasolo would not get a game wit any legitimate finals contender.

It would be interesting to see how every player responds under a new coach.. you just don't really know until it's done.

 

[JB1975]

You're really chatting about the great unknown here.. one thing is a certainty though.. they will not play as bad as they have been for the last few yrs under Buckley.

This is an odd assumption. I understand that Bucks is (to put it mildly) on the nose, but the idea that any replacement will have the team firing better than him is highly questionable.

The Melbourne Football Club undoubtedly thought that they were on a winner when Mark Neeld replaced Dean Bailey. After all, how could it get any worse? Well things got worse, despite the fact that Neeld was appointed through a rigorous selection process and vetted by some of the most successful people in the game. They made that mistake a few times.

Collingwood is losing games of football, but the fact that we're not getting smashed should indicate to people that a number of things are going okay behind the scenes. Things could certainly get a lot worse before they get any better, and this is a not unrealistic prospect which we need to confront. Does this mean we should stick with the status quo? Nup. But our current predicament should not be blown out of proportion, and the way out of our predicament shouldn't be guided by the idea that someone, anyone, would be better than what we've got.