Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[westozpie]

Oh dear, I've tired you all out.....

See you again folks.

And my shoes are real shined....

You should see them, they look like mirrors

Thanks to spitshine Tommy.

I'm just a good fella at heart

Was good of one of our posters to have you looking very sharp buddy. Always judge a gentleman by his shoes lol

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Was good of one of our posters to have you looking very sharp buddy. Always judge a gentleman by his shoes lol

But people don't look at shoes enough.
Andy Dufraine ( spelling?) walked to his cell, in those lovely shoes. And through the sewer he left shawhank prison.

But kept those shoes in that plastic bag.

Rita Hayworth gave up her secret.

 

[westozpie]

But people don't look at shoes enough.
Andy Dufraine ( spelling?) walked to his cell, in those lovely shoes. And through the sewer he left shawhank prison.

But kept those shoes in that plastic bag.

Rita Hayworth gave up her secret.

Think I will go with Andy D, ah what a movie, think we have all seen it ten times or more and still love it

 

[Woods List Clogger]

Even more than here.

The internet will always give voice to the disgruntled.
And the optimistic.

But before internet, people got annoyed, vented, moved on (mostly).
Now they can vent and vent, and then vent some more.

And bigfooty amongst other internet sites can provide an echo chamber so it just cycles and cycles.

But unsure what they themselves could really do if they were making the decisions.

Pretty sure nearly everyone would fail miserably, the place would be a rabble.
Because whatever action yoo take, it can't please everyonepeoole complain, people moan, and off it goes. But then they are dealing with it. Not so easy then.

I'd fail too.

There is no simple solutions if the players aren't there yet. None!

Stop being condescending.

 

[HFF]

Who knows.

But just because some people in the media and elsewhere are hyperventilating doesn't mean the club (read:Ed ) should make decisions out of their time frames.

Four years of rebuilding doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
But I'm a patient guy.
I think this year, the fact we were so close in so many games, never once getting smashed, says to me we are getting (slowly) better.
If we are so bad, why are we so close.

So I'm happy to continue because the next coach will be in the same predicament.

There is no magic cure.

People on here think new coach, voila, premierships. Sounds that way.

But as a club, and we are a medium club, a big supportered but medium club, are not close to having the requisite talent, yet. Hopefully the group comes through.

The odds say we won't.

Not like we win flags every other year.

By the way, apparantly the players love the coach, not that is the main driver. It's just an interesting aside.
But who cares what players think anyway.

It's all the mythical coach.

I don't think people believe new coach will equal premierships.
However, it will be a fresh start, with a fresh approach and new ideas.

It's clear what we have is not working.
And I think people are starting to lose patience around the notion that "it is everything else and everyone else to blame but Buckley" when he makes the executive decisions on the team.

Just because the players love the coach, doesn't mean he is good at his job.
i love the people I work with- doesn't mean they're gun performers though.

I've seen you mention a few times that you put it down to the list not having the talent, so the coach can only do so much.
Whilst this is accurate to a degree, surely we cannot just stick with a guy in the event that all the stars and planets align one day and he has the "team" to challenge.
It's already been 6 years.

How much patience do you have before it's time for someone else to have an opportunity?

Change for the sake of change i don't agree with.
However, change, in order to improve the circumstances is definitely a good thing.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Stop being condescending.

?

 

[Mukesh]

That one has me stumped, it's not points for & against and there's columns for % and win % so dunno

Goals and Behinds ??

 

[aussiekop79]

Some of the reasons being used to defend bucks just dont make sense.
It feels like when a conspiracy theorist
Tells you about a single ex nasa employee who claims the moon landing was fake but ignores the tens of thousands of nasa employees who say otherwise. Its the same way of justifying an extension for bucks, Looking at the handful of good quarters we've played in the last four years while ignoring the other hundred or so absolute horrors.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Stop being condescending.

Do you know what it means?

 

[soreplums]

Maybe our assistants are poor communicators and can't effectively deliver a message? Harvey's been there a long time

 

[TKiL]

I don't think people believe new coach will equal premierships.
However, it will be a fresh start, with a fresh approach and new ideas.

It's clear what we have is not working.
And I think people are starting to lose patience around the notion that "it is everything else and everyone else to blame but Buckley" when he makes the executive decisions on the team.

Just because the players love the coach, doesn't mean he is good at his job.
i love the people I work with- doesn't mean they're gun performers though.

I've seen you mention a few times that you put it down to the list not having the talent, so the coach can only do so much.
Whilst this is accurate to a degree, surely we cannot just stick with a guy in the event that all the stars and planets align one day and he has the "team" to challenge.
It's already been 6 years.

How much patience do you have before it's time for someone else to have an opportunity?

Change for the sake of change i don't agree with.
However, change, in order to improve the circumstances is definitely a good thing.

Extract from today's Age



Good to know that both the Emperor and the Board will LISTEN and then decide - or will the Emperor advise the Board of his decision before announcing?

 

[TKiL]

Maybe our assistants are poor communicators and can't effectively deliver a message? Harvey's been there a long time

Maybe.. but seems pointless to me to replace all the assistants and keep Buckley. If Buckley doesn't know that HIS assistants aren't up to it he should have acted earlier - in other words, if Buckley doesn't know the assistants aren't up to it Buckley is just as big a problem as the assistants. Which decent assistant would want to come to Cwood and work under Buckley where the culture is sack the assistants when the on field performance is sub par?

 

[Help My Club]

Maybe our assistants are poor communicators and can't effectively deliver a message? Harvey's been there a long time

Maybe our assistants are afraid to deliver a converse message.

OR

Maybe they were hand picked because they were never going to be a threat to said senior coach.

OR

Both!

 

[Countrypie]

As always the devil is lurking in the detail.

They talking about afl ie from 1990.

But football existed before that. Based on all VFL / AFL records we've played over 170 finals
Carlton over 130 and Essendon over 120.

No other club has notched 100.

Hope this helps?

All time we still lead.

Yes...I agree.

Where it gets murky is a club like Port Adelaide in the SANFL. WHile we can say that the VFL was the premier league for all of the 100 odd years prior to the AFL -its a subjective opinion. It certainly was from 1970 on, but prior to that I'm not so sure. In reality the VFL was a suburban competition prior to 1945 and even in the 50s great players like Bobby Rose were getting paid more money to play for Wangaratta Rovers. We have a great history and we dominated the VFL for a goodly period of the last century. Is our history better than Ports? It is from a Victorian perspective and from a VFL bias. But....even so I'd love to be hated as much as Port were when I was growing up and they were hated because they kept winning flags.

 

[DaVe86]

I thought Buckley would survive if we could at least improve our ladder position from last year and reverse the trend in Buckley's last 6 years which has been constantly downward.

For a 6th season in a row, we will finish lower than the year before. Considering Buckley admittingly stated that he wouldn't survive if we don't make finals, that's a glaring statistic.

On the flip side, I think we've been a much better side this year than last year. Our percentage is higher, and we have again been very competitive against the best sides in the comp. We've beaten Geelong, Sydney and West Coast, drawn to Adelaide, and got within a kick of Melbourne and GWS.

Last year, we were blown out of games. This year, our effort has been consistent and there hasn't been a game I haven't thought we were a chance of winning at about 3 quarter time.

So it will be interesting to see how the board views this year. Is it an improvement on last year??? Or does our lower ladder position mean it is a worse year??

 

[DaVe86]

Maybe our assistants are afraid to deliver a converse message.

OR

Maybe they were hand picked because they were never going to be a threat to said senior coach.

OR

Both!

We just need more experience in the coaching panel. There's so many ex-Collingwood players, or someone like Harvey who has been there for a long time now. Sanderson spent time out of the game.

We need someone from another club as a senior assistant. I'd love to make a pitch for John Barker or potentially even Brett Ratten. We just need fresh ideas and some outside IP.

 

[HeathySure]

So it is always about the players!

no
a good coach would have got more out of them
Buckley himself said he didnt change anything about the way the side played in 2012. He only had some semblance of success because of the residual effect of MMs coaching.

 

[HeathySure]

Even more than here.

The internet will always give voice to the disgruntled.
And the optimistic.

But before internet, people got annoyed, vented, moved on (mostly).
Now they can vent and vent, and then vent some more.

And bigfooty amongst other internet sites can provide an echo chamber so it just cycles and cycles.

But unsure what they themselves could really do if they were making the decisions.

Pretty sure nearly everyone would fail miserably, the place would be a rabble.
Because whatever action yoo take, it can't please everyonepeoole complain, people moan, and off it goes. But then they are dealing with it. Not so easy then.

I'd fail too.

There is no simple solutions if the players aren't there yet. None!

honestly your internet speil is getting tired.
i have plenty of friends who are not on the internet who also have the same opinion as i do. I have Essendon friends who cannot stand Hird and what he did at the club despite the Essendon faithful standing behind him til the end
EVeryone has an opinion, some of us state it on the internet just like you do. I would argue that (sometimes unfortunately) what is said on the internet is what the silent majority really beleive.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Yes...I agree.

Where it gets murky is a club like Port Adelaide in the SANFL. WHile we can say that the VFL was the premier league for all of the 100 odd years prior to the AFL -its a subjective opinion. It certainly was from 1970 on, but prior to that I'm not so sure. In reality the VFL was a suburban competition prior to 1945 and even in the 50s great players like Bobby Rose were getting paid more money to play for Wangaratta Rovers. We have a great history and we dominated the VFL for a goodly period of the last century. Is our history better than Ports? It is from a Victorian perspective and from a VFL bias. But....even so I'd love to be hated as much as Port were when I was growing up and they were hated because they kept winning flags.

At the end the VFL/AFL was the ongoing premier competition and all records should be treated as of 1897.

What other leagues did or didn't do, that's fine, but overall no league has come remotely close to the VFL and now AFL as the main competition.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

honestly your internet speil is getting tired.
i have plenty of friends who are not on the internet who also have the same opinion as i do. I have Essendon friends who cannot stand Hird and what he did at the club despite the Essendon faithful standing behind him til the end
EVeryone has an opinion, some of us state it on the internet just like you do. I would argue that (sometimes unfortunately) what is said on the internet is what the silent majority really beleive.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

If my posts are tiring, so be it.

ps everyone has friends who think like they do, it's human nature to hang around like minded people.
Eg my spiel as you call it is getting tired, if it agreed with you, it would be less tiring. Human nature always triumphs.

pps I wouldn't be equating standing by Hird and our coaching discussion. Completely different.
Anyone tried that stuff at Collingwood I wouldn't ever support that kind of nonsense and belligerent
behaviour.

ppps doesn't bother me in the slightest if people have a counter view about the coaching position.
Whoever is the coach, I'm less worried about.
I don't see the issue currently at the top, but that's just me. I think we improved this season.
My main point has always been, if the players aren't up to it, success isn't coming any time soon.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Maybe our assistants are afraid to deliver a converse message.

OR

Maybe they were hand picked because they were never going to be a threat to said senior coach.

OR

Both!

Or maybe the players aren't as good as some think.

 

[Dynamics]

Or maybe the players aren't as good as some think.

When Lynden Dunn (who I'm a fan of FWIW) is holding together the backline and a kid with less than 50 games is your best key forward, you have to ask questions about list management.

You're absolutely right that the state of the list can't be blamed entirely on Bucks. Hine's performance deserves very close scrutiny in my opinion. Moreso than Buckley. The halo has slipped, for whatever reason. Perhaps he was given too much to do when he really should just run recruitment.

To say nothing of the Mayne and Wells deals. Thanks Gubby.

But Bucks shouldn't be entirely immune either. He has to shoulder some responsibility for performance at some stage.

Personally, I'm all about best practice and pursuing the best person for the job. If the club determine that there are better people out there than Hine and Buckley to run recruitment and coaching, and we have a sniff of getting them in, let's move heaven and earth to get them.

If not, give Bucks more time and back him in definitively.

I'm not sure what my point is here, so forgive my rambling. I guess what I'm getting at is that I agree with you, in that the list has not been managed well and we can't just blame Bucks for that. But we can't ignore his record either, which is just not great. I'm glad I'm not making the call!

 

[Saintly Viewed]

When Lynden Dunn (who I'm a fan of FWIW) is holding together the backline and a kid with less than 50 games is your best key forward, you have to ask questions about list management.

You're absolutely right that the state of the list can't be blamed entirely on Bucks. Hine's performance deserves very close scrutiny in my opinion. Moreso than Buckley. The halo has slipped, for whatever reason. Perhaps he was given too much to do when he really should just run recruitment.

To say nothing of the Mayne and Wells deals. Thanks Gubby.

But Bucks shouldn't be entirely immune either. He has to shoulder some responsibility for performance at some stage.

Personally, I'm all about best practice and pursuing the best person for the job. If the club determine that there are better people out there than Hine and Buckley to run recruitment and coaching, and we have a sniff of getting them in, let's move heaven and earth to get them.

If not, give Bucks more time and back him in definitively.

I'm not sure what my point is here, so forgive my rambling. I guess what I'm getting at is that I agree with you, in that the list has not been managed well and we can't just blame Bucks for that. But we can't ignore his record either, which is just not great. I'm glad I'm not making the call!

All valid points.
Well presented and very accurate too.

It's all round.

But our real hope is of the younger types come through together at a higher level.
That is our real challenge.

 

[Countrypie]

All valid points.
Well presented and very accurate too.

It's all round.

But our real hope is of the younger types come through together at a higher level.
That is our real challenge.

And that, ultimately comes down to player development. The question gets down to who has the fay to day responsibility for that? Do we have the best people in that place? I expect(don't know for sure ) that this responsibility falls to a specific person. We used to be briliant in this area and have dropped the ball badly

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

We just need more experience in the coaching panel. There's so many ex-Collingwood players, or someone like Harvey who has been there for a long time now. Sanderson spent time out of the game.

We need someone from another club as a senior assistant. I'd love to make a pitch for John Barker or potentially even Brett Ratten. We just need fresh ideas and some outside IP.

Agreed - I hope we take a shot at Hodge too , even though he has said he wants a year off.