The 4 New Coaches - Round 7 Review

[Sedat!]

Bailey has been by far the most impressive of the new coaches IMO. Off the field, he has handled a very tricky period in the publc eye with aplomb. On the field, he is implementing a totally new game plan and is sticking rigidly to this - Melbourne will benefit enourmously from this in the coming years when the old wood has retired and the new batch become the club leaders. ATM they are getting killed the other way because their skill level is not allowing the game plan to flourish, but that is to be expected in the first couple of years. Clarkson did exactly the same thing when he went to Hawthorn. It takes a long time for a new game plan to be succesfully implemented on the field.

 

[High Ryder]

I see.
Palmer, Hinkley, Mayne, Ibbotson, Obrien, Foster

Do you want me to list how many 'kids' Knights has blooded thus far?

 

[Kramer1]

I do like the way Bailey presents himself, but not so sure about the plan. It seems it wasn't until he told them to 'just go out and play football' like on the weekend that they have played anything like competitive football. Will reserve judgement and good luck to him.

Knights run and gun style is attractive to watch, but if you don't have the cattle to execute it you can end up looking like Carlton circa 2007 - able to put the score on the board themselves, but just bleed goals at the other end through lack of defensive pressure. I think it will be a long year for Bomber supporters.

I probably have the most question marks over Harvey. The fact is he has the talent at his disposal to match it with the Geelongs and Hawthorns of the world..what on earth is he doing with it. Maybe he has been highly rated by association.

Ratts...I have to agree with the other Carlton posters. A half fit Chris Judd is great, but it is more what he brings out in those around him. Our structure at the stoppages has improved out of sight, and we are getting first hands on some ball. Opposition supporters might talk about all of the top ten draft picks we have had...but do you really think Kruezer and Gibbs are making all the difference? The improvement in guys like Bower, Cloke and Betts has been the catalyst. We are also playing a more effective possession style game, and somehow have developed the skills to play that way (they sure as hell weren't there last year).

As a Blues supporter I am stoked with the progress I have witnessed so far.

 

[Animosity1989]

Ratten - I guess it shows how terrible the new coaches have been for Ratten to be first, but having said that he has done an OK job with a poor list. There has been improvement in Carlton and whilst it has more to do with the young talent rather than the new coach, Ratten gets a pass in my book.

Knights - A shocking run with injures which makes it a little unfair for him but then again, it has been his incredibly quick transition of game-style that has caused most of them.

Harvey - People will get most annoyed with Harvey because of the 4 new coaches, he has the best list at his disposal. Having said that however, they did not finish in the 8 last year either. Thier is a bad culture at Fremantle that goes beyond the coaching staff.

Bailey - Bailey has been horrendously bad so far but people will cut him a bit of slack due to Melbourne terrible list. The truth is, Melbourne have not put 4 quarters together this year and although they won a game last week, it is very clear that whatever bailys game-plan is, it is completely lost on the Melbourne players.

 

[Animosity1989]

Knights - If only because he has us attacking. Add to that we havent started a season this bad since 92 and some eerily good signs are starting to show
in all honesty though, with the exception of some strange anzac day match ups, he is going to do wonders for the club this year, regardless of results

Ratten - Equal i would say with Knights. Finally has carlton playing to their strengths (midfield talent and fevola). should make finals.

Harvey - Hard to judge when you consider he does coach freo. coached to within a point of geelong. full credit there....did let 50 pts slip to the dees though. maybe that cancels it out

Bailey. 2008 is an even year. dees should be performing. a win against freo doesnt count, since really its more like not losing than winning when it comes to the dockers. you dont do anything, you just end up with 4 points.....

excuse me?

 

[campbell]

Ratten - I guess it shows how terrible the new coaches have been for Ratten to be first, but having said that he has done an OK job with a poor list. There has been improvement in Carlton and whilst it has more to do with the young talent rather than the new coach, Ratten gets a pass in my book.

Knights - A shocking run with injures which makes it a little unfair for him but then again, it has been his incredibly quick transition of game-style that has caused most of them.

Harvey - People will get most annoyed with Harvey because of the 4 new coaches, he has the best list at his disposal. Having said that however, they did not finish in the 8 last year either. Thier is a bad culture at Fremantle that goes beyond the coaching staff.

Bailey - Bailey has been horrendously bad so far but people will cut him a bit of slack due to Melbourne terrible list. The truth is, Melbourne have not put 4 quarters together this year and although they won a game last week, it is very clear that whatever bailys game-plan is, it is completely lost on the Melbourne players.

I agree on that one. The loses are severe loses as well, not near misses.

 

[la47]

This is a bit of a useless stat but I always find the "Time in front" stat interesting...out of all the games this year this is the Time in front ladder (%):

Hawthorn 77
Geelong 69
W Bulldogs 65
Carlton 61
Adelaide 60
North Melb 60
St Kilda 56
Port Adelaide 56
Sydney 53
Collingwood 52
Fremantle 41
Brisbane Lions 35
Richmond 30
Essendon 23
West Coast 18
Melbourne 5

If Carlton didn't fade against Richmond and Essendon the ladder would look very interesting

 

[Ice-Wolf]

This is a bit of a useless stat but I always find the "Time in front" stat interesting...out of all the games this year this is the Time in front ladder (%):

Hawthorn 77
Geelong 69
W Bulldogs 65
Carlton 61
Adelaide 60
North Melb 60
St Kilda 56
Port Adelaide 56
Sydney 53
Collingwood 52
Fremantle 41
Brisbane Lions 35
Richmond 30
Essendon 23
West Coast 18
Melbourne 5

If Carlton didn't fade against Richmond and Essendon the ladder would look very interesting

If St Kilda hadn't dropped intensity after 1/4 time against the Geelong and the Bulldogs, it would look very interesting too.

 

[Kramer1]

Ratten - I guess it shows how terrible the new coaches have been for Ratten to be first, but having said that he has done an OK job with a poor list. There has been improvement in Carlton and whilst it has more to do with the young talent rather than the new coach, Ratten gets a pass in my book.

A relatively uninformed comment.

Ratten has made fairly substantial changes to the game plan, and we have guys playing quite different roles to previous years. Thornton is a prime example (until he did a medial).

The only young talent to make huge inroads this year has been Murphy (which is to be expected). The improvement has come about through a more appropriate gameplan, the addition of Judd, and to a lesser extend Hadley, and the development of second tier players such as Bower, Grigg, Bannister and dare I say it even Russel

 

[Flukey!]

Anyone but Harvey

 

[The Dustbin]

How I have ranked them so far:

1) Knights: I thought Matty Knights has done pretty well for his first season considering the expectations. He handles himself well in the media and has coached reasonably well on field considering his injuries. His offensive gameplan can be fantastic, however he doesn't currently have the cattle to carry it out. How he turns over the list will be interesting

2) Ratten: After a shithouse start he has finally found his feet. He has an obvious advantage playing with a couple of superstars in his team. Presents himself in the media pretty well, however his game day tatics need working on

3) Bailey: The thing about Bailey is that he hasn't coached nor presented himself well in the media, but he has at least realised his team aren't probably going to make the finals for the next couple of years and so he is fast tracking as many kids as possible. I wouldn't be suprised if he unloads a few talented players like Green and Bruce at the end of the year for high draft picks similar to Al Clarkson

4) Harvey: Presents himself soooo poorly in the media. No gusto, no confidence, at least when teams like Richmond and Essendon have gone poorly in the last couple of years their coaches have been able to somewhat keep their fans up. I honestly though this guy was going to be the next big Sheedy or Mathews

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[THEBLOODS85]

What good is Plan B, C, D or Z if you can't execute Plan A - what makes you think Plan B can be executed? Thats the biggest bull$hit buzzword in the AFL right now "game plan".




The voice of reason

ffs mate everyone should know if you have played some sort of footy that plan 'b' means to play one on one, lock down, be accountable....it is excepted that that is what plan 'b' is.

 

[cfc05]

1. Knights. Doing about as well as he can, given the circumstances around him.
2. Bailey. He's the one to watch for the next few weeks.
3. Ratten. Anyone can coach a team full of top picks and Judd. Anyone.
4. Harvey. There is a reason why he didn't get the head job at Essendon. Pretty clear.

Really??

Carlton:
Picks 1's: Murphy, Gibbs , Kreuzer
Pick 2's: Walker
Pick 3: Judd
Pick 9: Russell


Hawthorn:
Pick 1's:Luke Hodge
Pick 2's:Jarryd Roughead
Pick 3's:Xavier Ellis, Trent Croad
Pick 4's:
Pick 5's:Lance Franklin
Pick 6's:Beau Dowler, Mitchell Thorp
Pick 7's:Jordan Lewis
Pick 8's:Luke Brennan(syd)

St Kilda
Pick 1's: Riewoldt, Goddard
Pick 2's: Koschitzke, Ball
Pick 5: Xavier Clarke
Pick 8: Raphael Clarke
Pick 9's: David Armitage, Ben McEvoy

Carlton - 6 top 10 picks... 4 of them last 3 years, cant be expected to be be influential straight away!! Although Murphy has been

Hawthorn - 8 top 10 picks, all took a few years to take off. Franklin and Roughy well and truely have settled in this year, look what happens. Bit harsh to judge carltons so quick?

St Kilda - 8 top 10, and the first 5 playing pretty good football. If anyone can coach them, surely this list should have achieved something!!


Couldnt be bothered looking at essendons top 10 picks or first round for that matter. But Carltons pick are exagerated due to having the last few, eveyrone forgets we missed the first 2 rounds for two seasons - and if you can't realise that will hold you back, your clearly biased.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Really??

Carlton:
Picks 1's: Murphy, Gibbs , Kreuzer
Pick 2's: Walker
Pick 3: Judd
Pick 9: Russell


Hawthorn:
Pick 1's:Luke Hodge
Pick 2's:Jarryd Roughead
Pick 3's:Xavier Ellis, Trent Croad
Pick 4's:
Pick 5's:Lance Franklin
Pick 6's:Beau Dowler, Mitchell Thorp
Pick 7's:Jordan Lewis
Pick 8's:Luke Brennan(syd)

St Kilda
Pick 1's: Riewoldt, Goddard (Shoulder, Knee)
Pick 2's: Koschitzke, Ball (Injury Prone, OP)
Pick 5: Xavier Clarke (Hamstrings)
Pick 8: Raphael Clarke (Injury Prone)
Pick 9's: David Armitage, Ben McEvoy (Just made it on field, Ruck prospect )

Carlton - 6 top 10 picks... 4 of them last 3 years, cant be expected to be be influential straight away!! Although Murphy has been

Hawthorn - 8 top 10 picks, all took a few years to take off. Franklin and Roughy well and truely have settled in this year, look what happens. Bit harsh to judge carltons so quick?

St Kilda - 8 top 10, and the first 5 playing pretty good football. If anyone can coach them, surely this list should have achieved something!!


Couldnt be bothered looking at essendons top 10 picks or first round for that matter. But Carltons pick are exagerated due to having the last few, eveyrone forgets we missed the first 2 rounds for two seasons - and if you can't realise that will hold you back, your clearly biased.

Anyone could coach our list (i.e. Grant Thomas) but injuries have a massive effect especially on developing players.

 

[THEBLOODS85]

If St Kilda hadn't dropped intensity after 1/4 time against the Geelong and the Bulldogs, it would look very interesting too.

and if my aunty had balls....well you know the story!

 

[Sedat!]

Bailey - Bailey has been horrendously bad so far but people will cut him a bit of slack due to Melbourne terrible list. The truth is, Melbourne have not put 4 quarters together this year and although they won a game last week, it is very clear that whatever bailys game-plan is, it is completely lost on the Melbourne players.

Sounds an awful lot like Hawthrn circa 2005-6. Short memory.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

and if my aunty had balls....well you know the story!

That was my point

 

[THEBLOODS85]

Knights - If only because he has us attacking. Add to that we havent started a season this bad since 92 and some eerily good signs are starting to show
in all honesty though, with the exception of some strange anzac day match ups, he is going to do wonders for the club this year, regardless of results

Ratten - Equal i would say with Knights. Finally has carlton playing to their strengths (midfield talent and fevola). should make finals.

Harvey - Hard to judge when you consider he does coach freo. coached to within a point of geelong. full credit there....did let 50 pts slip to the dees though. maybe that cancels it out

Bailey. 2008 is an even year. dees should be performing. a win against freo doesnt count, since really its more like not losing than winning when it comes to the dockers. you dont do anything, you just end up with 4 points.....

You make it sound like he has been trying for years to get them going.........sorry it took three weeks to get going!
Now we are lets hope we last more than three weeks like some teams.

 

[mango]

ffs mate everyone should know if you have played some sort of footy that plan 'b' means to play one on one, lock down, be accountable....it is excepted that that is what plan 'b' is.

geez hasnt it got thru yet that knights decided long ago how he would implement his vision for essendons onfield future? regardless of results?

injuries & indifferent form of a few players hasnt helped the cause, but congrats to him & the coaching group for sticking to their guns

what we will see shortly with the return of a few senior players is implementation of knights' defensive model, so all discussion & criticism of the defensive efforts to date are pointless

 

[THEBLOODS85]

That was my point

No worries.......it is one of the better stats sheets though...... does give you an idea of who have been prominent in games and those never in the hunt!

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

I find it hard to rate coaches.

Who's the say if Harvey went to Essendon he wouldn't have gotten the same results Knights did (which isn't great so far), and say, he's going OK, he's having rebuilding year.

And if Knights had gone to Freo who had high expectations, and done poorly, with an over-rated list, we'd be saying he's crap and not doing anything for Fremantle./quote]

Precisely. It's like awarding the best Actor at the Oscar's - unless all nominations play the same role in the same movie you can never actually qualify the result....same with coaches.

However, to opine is fun:

Knights has had to deal with most injuries and is a chance to beat all of the other teams head to head, however has looked lost in all of his losses except the Bulldogs where I thought he clearly out coached Eade.

Ratten has probably had the easiest run draw wise thus far, but at the same time, won the most games and that is what we all want at the end of the day.

Melbourne have been the worst performed for mine, Sundays Freo result was an anomoly and had more to do with Freo than Melb.

Harvey seems to be struggling to enforce a winning culture and get his players to care about results rather than TV performances...

All in all the four teams are still very poor and a fair way off the top teams so it will actually be the team building skills over the next couple of seasons that will best determine the short term results of all coaches named....

 

[THEBLOODS85]

geez hasnt it got thru yet that knights decided long ago how he would implement his vision for essendons onfield future? regardless of results?

injuries & indifferent form of a few players hasnt helped the cause, but congrats to him & the coaching group for sticking to their guns

what we will see shortly with the return of a few senior players is implementation of knights' defensive model, so all discussion & criticism of the defensive efforts to date are pointless

why not have the 'defensive model' in place now.....why wait for senior players to return....they're not your future.
Kids must be taught the defensive aspects from day one, before they develop bad habits......ie running one way, not chasing back. etc
Some things in football will never change and one is your attack on the opposition when they have the ball...............no good getting it, turning it over and watching it rebound 100 kph with blokes token chasing.

Teaching young players to respect their opponents is a huge factor in creating a good football team.

 

[DeeHughMan]

Bailey has done ok, he is weeding out those who are not up to it quickly. a high skill level is needed to carry out the game plan. all of a sudden you can see players start to get it.

Eg Brad Miller was a very one dimensional player who handballed to much. on the weekend they drilled into him to turn and kick the ball he did it to great effect.

it will take a while with the dees and a lot more pain will come before they get better.

they are just so unskilled its frustrating.

 

[SurreyBlue]

1. Brett Ratten
2. Dean Baily
3. Matthew Knights
4. Mark Harvey

Reasoning...

1. Brett Ratten = Changed game plan, has the team playing as a team and given the young kids confidence in themselves. Sticking to his beliefs, ie. Waite at CHB when all where saying play him forward and winning. Might still not win many more games as we all like, but will be giving there all and Ratten takes full credit for the turn around. Very exciting.

2. Dean Baily = Ageing list but still has a good spread of experienced players and youngsters. Should be doing better. Players taking longer than expected to adjust to game plan and belief in him is not entirely there. Most experts however did have them bottom 2 and will be finishing there.

3. Matthew Knights = Has still many experienced players on every line and good youngsters. Should be doing better. Game plan is a big concern and must be addressed asap. He thought he had a list to play finals in 2008 and although I don't believe he does, he certaintly has a list that should finish top of bottom 8. I think he'll fail as a coach.

4. Mark Harvey = struggling in all areas. Less said the better.

ps. I laugh at most of you people who are now saying Ratten should be doing well because he has a list full of top picks. Pretty sure months ago your the same people who where saying Carlton's list was the worst in the league with no depth.

 

[MF]

How I have ranked them so far:

1) Knights: I thought Matty Knights has done pretty well for his first season considering the expectations. He handles himself well in the media and has coached reasonably well on field considering his injuries. His offensive gameplan can be fantastic, however he doesn't currently have the cattle to carry it out. How he turns over the list will be interesting

2) Ratten: After a shithouse start he has finally found his feet. He has an obvious advantage playing with a couple of superstars in his team. Presents himself in the media pretty well, however his game day tatics need working on

3) Bailey: The thing about Bailey is that he hasn't coached nor presented himself well in the media, but he has at least realised his team aren't probably going to make the finals for the next couple of years and so he is fast tracking as many kids as possible. I wouldn't be suprised if he unloads a few talented players like Green and Bruce at the end of the year for high draft picks similar to Al Clarkson

4) Harvey: Presents himself soooo poorly in the media. No gusto, no confidence, at least when teams like Richmond and Essendon have gone poorly in the last couple of years their coaches have been able to somewhat keep their fans up. I honestly though this guy was going to be the next big Sheedy or Mathews

I completely agree with all of this.