The Academies - 2016

[TradeDraft]

Ban GWS from the acamdamy it's a joke how much help they have had.

and Other 3 Northern ones as well

 

[CallumMills2020]

How hard are Eddy and his merry band of lemmings trying to get the Riverina!

First they bought Callum Twomey then they moved onto Jay and Sam from the Hun now they've gone for the biggest cash for comment whore of them all..big Damo.

How pathetic and jealous...bet they won't have any qualms about the TV Rights.

Self serving *****

 

[iBeng]

and Other 3 Northern ones as well

Yeah! Damn them northern states, all four dominating the league right now!

 

[SizeMatters]

Suns are finally getting some local talent into their team. GWS has been winning every draft though.

 

[grouse mate]

Was good of Damo to really analyse how we got given all these first round picks that he waffled on about. Maybe the clubs doing the whingeing should have a look at their own list management practices and how get good value from trade week before getting this muppet to make up a headline for them.

 

[Colonial]

Bottom line is the AFL still has handed you this particular area...
Carlton and other teams dont have the opportunity to produce these academies in good areas.

Those other teams are in footy heartland where go home factor is almost non existent.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Bottom line is the AFL still has handed you this particular area...
Carlton and other teams dont have the opportunity to produce these academies in good areas.

The only reasons academies were brought into place is that the previous scheme (NSW Scholarships) was a failure, your club and every other club could have invested time/money into developing NSW kids but didnt, the closest we really got was Collingwood / Hawthorn taking some cream off the top but no real investment. (and this was because it actually made no sense for teams to invest under that system)

You can't have a free-for all where everyone gets the benefits, with 1 club bearing the cost, it just doesnt work.
As long as the AFL is leaving it to the individual northern clubs to run the academies then those clubs will need some benefit out of it.

As someone who used to live in Hillston, and played against Barellan/Lake/WW/Ungarie etc, it really was a case of no real pathway to AFL existing from NSW, even for those in the Riverina, the best anecdotal evidence was a guy (Connor iirc) from Ungarie played both NRL and AFL and was best on his team at both, was signed to West Tigers (NRL) youth development squad as a 15yr old, whilst for AFL he would have had to move to victoria and play VFL to even get noticed.

But even more than that example just from when I was playing there were a couple of kids from Lake Cargelligo that were exceptionally talented but never went any further than local rep footy, not saying they would have definitely made AFL, but there was just no clear pathway, so it wasnt something they pursued.

My anecdotal evidence isn't the only one though, listen to the things guys that came through via NSW scholarship system, such as Bruest have said about the impact of it on their home town leagues.

Under the academy system these kids are being identified and have a real shot at making it to AFL level under previous systems they weren't.

 

[Hollow Knight]

and Other 3 Northern ones as well

Lions academy graduates currently reside on the lists of North Melbourne, Richmond and Fremantle. And we've only just begun.

Good for footy.

You're welcome everyone.

 

[dlanod]

You do realise the clubs have their respective academies thanks to the AFL right?

Yes they bring kids to the AFL who may otherwise never have made it but thats not my point.
It is still unfair that the academy clubs are constantly getting dibs on highly rated draftees.

Sydney top 4 team yet got Heeney and Mills recently.
GWS with a few top draftees and more in the next few years to come.
Brisbane as well with Hipwood, Keays and a few good prospects in next few years.

Instead of Keays and Hipwood Brisbane would have just gotten McKay, Collins and Ryan Clarke (no need to downgrade picks without the academy) for the picks that they gave up.
Instead of Hopper, Kennedy, Himmelberg and Flynn, GWS gets Weideman, McKay, Sier and Hardwick.

And whoever picks at the end of the draft gets to choose from a handful of worse prospects because the likes of the above don't make it into the draft system.

Yay? That seems... fun?

 

[dlanod]

Lions academy graduates currently reside on the lists of North Melbourne, Richmond and Fremantle. And we've only just begun.

Good for footy.

You're welcome everyone.

Plus Melbourne (Wagner) and Collingwood (Smith).

 

[iBeng]

Let's stop bringing logic to a rattle shaking contest guys.

 

[Suma Magic]

More good players is obviously better. That's a no brainer.

But if a handful of teams get a 20% discount on priority players it still gives them a comparative advantage at the draft.

I don't know why it's so hard for Academy clubs to understand that draft equity is prioritised over draft strength by supporters of other clubs?

Personally, I would support the Academy system if the 20% discount was removed.

 

[iBeng]

Get rid of the discount and you'd be better off banning the four clubs from drafting at all and just force them to take all academic prospects.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

More good players is obviously better. That's a no brainer.

But if a handful of teams get a 20% discount on priority players it still gives them a comparative advantage at the draft.

I don't know why it's so hard for Academy clubs to understand that draft equity is prioritised over draft strength by supporters of other clubs?

Personally, I would support the Academy system if the 20% discount was removed.

How noble of you, you'd allow the northern clubs to put in all the development work for no reward.

I don't know why its so hard for other clubs to understand that whilst clubs are running it they need to get some benefit out of it to justify the expense.

If you want academy players to be open draft with no discount for developing club then you need the AFL to decide that they are going to fund and run the academies, but they put that in the too hard basket and made the northern clubs responsible.

Its amazing we never heard anything negative about the academies from 2009-2014, when the development was being put in and we got Brandon Jack, but suddenly after 2 good picks its the end of the world, yet it doesn't look as though we have any rnd1 rated prospects this year, how many years of not producing rnd 1 picks would you be happy with.

 

[dlanod]

More good players is obviously better. That's a no brainer.

But if a handful of teams get a 20% discount on priority players it still gives them a comparative advantage at the draft.

I don't know why it's so hard for Academy clubs to understand that draft equity is prioritised over draft strength by supporters of other clubs?

Personally, I would support the Academy system if the 20% discount was removed.

So in summary, you'd support the academies if there was negligible incentive for the clubs to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars running academies.

 

[Suma Magic]

So in summary, you'd support the academies if there was negligible incentive for the clubs to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars running academies.

Haha nice straw man.

It wouldn't be a negligible benefit to gain priority access to an increased pool of locally developed players.

 

[Suma Magic]

Laughable that the discount is being argued as being the only benefit.

Come on, we are all smarter than that.

 

[dlanod]

Haha nice straw man.

It wouldn't be a negligible benefit to gain priority access to an increased pool of locally developed players.

Laughable that the discount is being argued as being the only benefit.

Come on, we are all smarter than that.

No, it's being argued that a local pool of players isn't worth the amount that clubs are spending on academies. Instead of trying to develop the game as a whole so the pool increases, you'll see the clubs just cherry picking the obvious elite talent and ignoring the rest of the state - basically the same as the (failed) NSW scholarship scheme but only open to the local clubs.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Haha nice straw man.

It wouldn't be a negligible benefit to gain priority access to an increased pool of locally developed players.

That's not a strawman, its a direct quote from what you've said.
Currently only "priority access" the clubs get is the 20% discount, you're arguing to remove the discount?

Meaning the only benefit is the presence of local players, which as we've seen under previous schemes isn't enough to entice clubs to spend on development, they will just take the best and put minimal effort into it.

 

[Suma Magic]

No, it's being argued that a local pool of players isn't worth the amount that clubs are spending on academies. Instead of trying to develop the game as a whole so the pool increases, you'll see the clubs just cherry picking the obvious elite talent and ignoring the rest of the state - basically the same as the (failed) NSW scholarship scheme but only open to the local clubs.

If the discount was reduced then yes the investment would by some proportion. Similarly if it was increased so to would investment. It's about development that doesn't provide a comparative advantage that is too large.

Priority access to an area that you can grow is a significant advantage.

 

[Suma Magic]

That's not a strawman, its a direct quote from what you've said.
Currently only "priority access" the clubs get is the 20% discount, you're arguing to remove the discount?

Meaning the only benefit is the presence of local players, which as we've seen under previous schemes isn't enough to entice clubs to spend on development, they will just take the best and put minimal effort into it.

It was a straw man. It was saying that there would be a negligible benefit without the discount (false - it would be much larger than that) and then arguing against that.

The previous system was different. It didn't give half a state to a club to develop on their own. It's a far larger opportunity and to say otherwise is incorrect.

 

[dlanod]

It was a straw man. It was saying that there would be a negligible benefit without the discount (false - it would be much larger than that) and then arguing against that.

The previous system was different. It didn't give half a state to a club to develop on their own. It's a far larger opportunity and to say otherwise is incorrect.

No, it's not a strawman. I consider priority access to local talent a negligible benefit when it's compared to the amount clubs are currently investing into academies. Just because you disagree doesn't mean arguments to the contrary are being constructed just in order to knock them down.

Of course that investment was what was wanted, but now that it is showing results let's remove the reason for the investment.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

It was a straw man. It was saying that there would be a negligible benefit without the discount (false - it would be much larger than that) and then arguing against that.

The previous system was different. It didn't give half a state to a club to develop on their own. It's a far larger opportunity and to say otherwise is incorrect.

No it really isn't, its an accurate call, without the discounts there is negligible benefit to running the academies.

You keep talking about these larger benefits, care to list some of them?

 

[Suma Magic]

No, it's not a strawman. I consider priority access to local talent a negligible benefit when it's compared to the amount clubs are currently investing into academies. Just because you disagree doesn't mean arguments to the contrary are being constructed just in order to knock them down.

Of course that investment was what was wanted, but now that it is showing results let's remove the reason for the investment.

If you genuinely believe that there would be negligible benefit in priority access to local talent then I suppose you are right.

I just don't see how having to pay pick 17 instead of pick 23 for a local player would kill off nearly all investment. I struggle to see how you could take that view.

 

[Suma Magic]

No it really isn't, its an accurate call, without the discounts there is negligible benefit to running the academies.

You keep talking about these larger benefits, care to list some of them?

Priority access to local players means you pay a maximum of market value. And recruiting locally helps to address go home issues. This is a huge advantage in non-traditional states.