Opinion The Baton

[doppleganger]

The down year we’ve just endured, and the hyperbole over Nicky D has gotten me thinking about who our best players have been over the time I’ve followed the Maggies. Not our “better” players, or even our Copeland winners necessarily (as it heavily rewards consistency, remaining injury-free etc.). I mean the best player at the club, who opposition would fear the most and who would be most influential in getting us a win.

As I was a teenager when Buckley came across, I’m not entirely sure when he became that player for us, but I suspect quickly. He was averaging 24 disposals and 1.4 goals per game by 1996, so he’d be making a pretty strong case for himself by then.

When did he pass the baton to (presumably) Jimmy Clement? 2005 was a bit of a down year in terms of availability and Clement was an All-Australian in a really poor team. Rocca might have taken that mantle through 2006 and 2007 kicking over 50 goals in each, but there would be a bit of competition.

Did Travis Cloke ever get there? Didak? I think Cloke’s best years overlapped with Swan and Pendlebury’s…

Dane Swan would be my nomination during 2010 and 2011 followed by Pendlebury until probably 2019. Grundy would have his admirers in 2018 for sure, but I’m trying not to overreact to one good year in terms of the club’s “best player” rather than “best season”.

These last couple of years I don’t think we really have a player for opponents to fear anymore. Our best talent IMHO is probably Darcy Moore, but we just don’t have a marquee player and that’s reflected in our AA and Brownlow finishes.

1996-2004 Nathan Buckley
2005 James Clement
2006-2007 Anthony Rocca
2008 ?
2009-2012 Dane Swan
2013-2019 Scott Pendlebury
2020 ?
2021 ?

What do people think? Help fill the blanks and flesh the list out.

If you are going our best or most important / feared and having a stand-out baton change heading into a new season id go the following clean approach. As you say not talking BnF, but who was acknowledged as the main man.

96-07 Buckley
08-13 Swan
14-22 Pendles

Despite injuries and guys like Licca, Clement and Didak winning BnFs, Bucks was always the man. Even towards the end, when Bucks was on the park in 05 and 06 he was still kicking bags and finding the pill 20+ times and drilling passes inside 50. Nobody really took the baton from Bucks whilst he was on the list....closest would be Didak heading into 07.

For mine Swan took the baton, he broke through internally in 2006 and 2007 was his break out, a big finals, top4 Copeland and surprise brownlow leader put him as the stand-out. When Bucks retired he was then the man. A bit unfashionable in 08 perhaps, but so we were as a team in 08. Come 09-11, he was top couple league wide. The question is when did he hand the baton to Pendles? For mine heading into 12-13, Swan still our main weapon...sure Beams and Pe dles had won a Copeland, but Swan still the man. That changed through 2013, Pendles was huge another BnF, coaches award and when took captaincy from Maxwell end of 2013 it signalled Pendles taking over.

Pendles was our star from 2014 onwards, not many arguments there.

Would be happy for someone to mount a case for Grundy that after going back2back BnFs in 18/19, that heading into 2020 he was given the baton and was our most important and influential player....sort of explains our fall away as Grundy, Moore, DeGoey (the guys we hoped would take over the baton) were outperformed by Pendles in 20&21!!

No offence to Adams or Crisp who won BnFs, but they arent our most feared or best players.

So it either went to Grundy after 2019, or is still with Pendles and hoping to give it to Moore (or DeGoey or N.Daicos ) if they have big 2022s.

 

[Gone Critical]

My memory and involved a lot a Vic Park from late 60s to late 70s and then matches and TV 90s onwards. The 80s was mostly Sat arvo footy for.Collingwood and as i was playing myself then didnt see as much.

My best, in order , no *

Buckley
Swan
Pendles
Thommo
McKenna
Wayne Richardson
Daics
Browny
Tuddy
Pants

Likely no 1 if not for JO

Johnny Greening

Coulda been the best

Fabulous Phil

Biggest tease

Incredible Hulk

Honourable Mentions

Barry Price
Dids
Mickey M
James Clement

James Clement

Age

47

Ht

190cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.9

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

Trav Cloke
The Roccas
Paul Wlliams
Terry Waters
ANYONE OBVIOUS I LEFT OUT

 

[sr36]

If you are going our best or most important / feared and having a stand-out baton change heading into a new season id go the following clean approach. As you say not talking BnF, but who was acknowledged as the main man.

96-07 Buckley
08-13 Swan
14-22 Pendles

Despite injuries and guys like Licca, Clement and Didak winning BnFs, Bucks was always the man. Even towards the end, when Bucks was on the park in 05 and 06 he was still kicking bags and finding the pill 20+ times and drilling passes inside 50. Nobody really took the baton from Bucks whilst he was on the list....closest would be Didak heading into 07.

For mine Swan took the baton, he broke through internally in 2006 and 2007 was his break out, a big finals, top4 Copeland and surprise brownlow leader put him as the stand-out. When Bucks retired he was then the man. A bit unfashionable in 08 perhaps, but so we were as a team in 08. Come 09-11, he was top couple league wide. The question is when did he hand the baton to Pendles? For mine heading into 12-13, Swan still our main weapon...sure Beams and Pe dles had won a Copeland, but Swan still the man. That changed through 2013, Pendles was huge another BnF, coaches award and when took captaincy from Maxwell end of 2013 it signalled Pendles taking over.

Pendles was our star from 2014 onwards, not many arguments there.

Would be happy for someone to mount a case for Grundy that after going back2back BnFs in 18/19, that heading into 2020 he was given the baton and was our most important and influential player....sort of explains our fall away as Grundy, Moore, DeGoey (the guys we hoped would take over the baton) were outperformed by Pendles in 20&21!!

No offence to Adams or Crisp who won BnFs, but they arent our most feared or best players.

So it either went to Grundy after 2019, or is still with Pendles and hoping to give it to Moore (or DeGoey or N.Daicos ) if they have big 2022s.

Agree with that. I think by the end of 2018, most considered Grundy to be the man, and definitely going into 2020. so him from 2019-now.

 

[The Phantom]

The singular most feared was Milane by a mile.
I remember him charging forward of centre at Victoria Park and Bulldogs players visibly melting out of his path.
So much strength and intensity.

Peter Daicos certainly up there. Just ask John Gastev.

Dane Swan

Dane Swan

Age

40

Ht

185cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.9

5star

K

16.4

5star

HB

10.4

5star

M

5.9

5star

T

3.1

5star

CL

5.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

was my favourite to watch.

Medhurst had teams planning around him.
We had a mini era with our fantastic four small forwards that was terrific; Medhurst, Davis, Thomas - help me with the 4th!!!

I also think Chris Tarrant

Chris Tarrant

Age

43

Ht

193cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

2.6

1star

HB

0.6

1star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.8

4star

’s first incarnation up forward has a place in this conversation.

 

[doppleganger]

Agree with that. I think by the end of 2018, most considered Grundy to be the man, and definitely going into 2020. so him from 2019-now.

Yep, Grundy sort of dropped the baton instead of running with it during the last couple of COVID impacted seasons.

Meanwhile Pendles chalked up another couple of podium finishes in the Copeland, a special player.

 

[sr36]

My memory and involved a lot a Vic Park from late 60s to late 70s and then matches and TV 90s onwards. The 80s was mostly Sat arvo footy for.Collingwood and as i was playing myself then didnt see as much.

My best, no *

Buckley
Swan
Pendles
Thommo
McKenna
Wayne Richardson
Daics
Browny
Tuddy
Pants

Likely no 1 if not for JO

Johnny Greening

Coulda been the best

Fabulous Phil

Biggest tease

Incredible Hulk

Honourable Mentions

Barry Price
Dids
Mickey M
James Clement
Trav Cloke
The Roccas
Paul Wlliams
Terry Waters
ANYONE OBVIOUS I LEFT OUT

Peter Moore - I'm too young to remember him properly, but I think he'd make most lists of that length.

I'd put Grundy in too ahead of a heap of those honourable mentions. This is the first generation that is judged not just on their footy, but their footy in relation to their salaries. He's had two great years and two years where he was down but still well above average if you ignore the salary.

Hopefully Darcy and JDG can string some good seasons together and join the list.

 

[sr36]

Yep, Grundy sort of dropped the baton instead of running with it during the last couple of COVID impacted seasons.

Meanwhile Pendles chalked up another couple of podium finishes in the Copeland, a special player.

I think he'll pick the baton back up.

 

[doppleganger]

Medhurst had teams planning around him.
We had a mini era with our fantastic four small forwards that was terrific; Medhurst, Davis, Thomas - help me with the 4th!!!

Didak!!

I also think Chris Tarrant’s first incarnation up forward has a place in this conversation.

Taz a fan favourite, but his top form was 2003 when Buckley was winning brownlows.

I think he'll pick the baton back up.

As do I, tipping a Reg/Darcy Copeland quinella in 2022.

 

[jonbe54]

Peter Moore - I'm too young to remember him properly, but I think he'd make most lists of that length.

I'd put Grundy in too ahead of a heap of those honourable mentions. This is the first generation that is judged not just on their footy, but their footy in relation to their salaries. He's had two great years and two years where he was down but still well above average if you ignore the salary.

Hopefully Darcy and JDG can string some good seasons together and join the list.

Yes Peter was an amazing athlete for his size and a damn fine footballer - but from watching his career live Len was superior even though he only won one Charlie he was the archetype mobile athletic ruckman before there were archetypal mobile athletic ruckman - a true revelation.

Chris was another in the long line of hugely talented Collingwood forwards who never quite produced expected results on a truly consistent basis.

 

[jmac70]

Peter Daicos was the most exciting player I saw, and the most capable of turning a game through personal brilliance.

As a forward in the late 80s and 90s he was electric. The crowd would lift whenever he got near the ball. The excitement he generated was only matched by Ablett snr at Geelong.

 

[jmac70]

The hope is that N Daicos picks up the baton from his father.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The hope is that N Daicos picks up the baton from his father.

Indeed, we need some more game changing players.

So can any of you veteran Pies fans put together a “succession” of best players by era rather than debating who was the all-time best/toughest/whatever?

 

[jonbe54]

Indeed, we need some more game changing players.

So can any of you veteran Pies fans put together a “succession” of best players by era rather than debating who was the all-time best/toughest/whatever?

Again it's a matter of when you want to start from TRS.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

ITs a tough question.. not sure I even know what the question is to be honest but I’m assuming it’s who was our best player over an era ( more than a season preferably).

That’s different to who might have been our most important player. For example Rocca was never our best player but his presence was pivotal to our success.

Pendlebury Swan and Buckley clearly fill the gaps for many of those years.

Obviously Pendles and swan crosss over for many of those years so it’s a matter of deciding which of the two gets the baton in an individual season. For a 6-12 month period one could also argue that Dale Thomas was better than both of them. People forget how good Daisy was at his best before hurting his ankle

 

[Anzacday]

3 goals in a minute got the noise level at the G into atmospheric numbers as I recall.

It was at Emptyhead Stadium - sorry to be pedantic.

 

[jathanas]

Wasn't a pun



For all Didak's preening and histrionics he wasn't fit to wipe Peter's boots.

I'd like to frame it (a little) differently.

One player was very talented the other was a once-in-a-generation freak. Both supreme on the field but only Peter has recorded a 97 goal season.

Didak was awesome, it's doing him a diservice comparing him to Daics.

 

[sideswipe]

I'd like to frame it (a little) differently.

One player was very talented the other was a once-in-a-generation freak. Both supreme on the field but only Peter has recorded a 97 goal season.

Didak was awesome, it's doing him a diservice comparing him to Daics.

Alas, you are too late. Once a player has been framed by the Truth Teller, they are forevermore thusly framed.

From now until the end of time, Dids shall only be known as Not a Boot Wiper.

That's how someone ended up as Two Dogs Trucking.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Again it's a matter of when you want to start from TRS.

Start from when people feel knowledgeable/confident enough to comment!

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Love the pun.
I doubt you could call Didak pedestrian though.
Not Daicos but highly entertaining none the same.

3 goals in a minute got the noise level at the G into atmospheric numbers as I recall.

Great action!

Note the excellent play by Jolly, Brown, and Blair linking to Didak

Exciting period for us - easily the best team to watch when we were on

 

[The Royal Sampler]

ITs a tough question.. not sure I even know what the question is to be honest but I’m assuming it’s who was our best player over an era ( more than a season preferably).

Doppelgänger has done an excellent job with his Occam’s Razor version of who was “The Man” over eras. He’s right in that Buckley was indeed The Man until his retirement, even if his stats and availability tailed off toward the end. Then for an indefinite period Dane Swan was that guy, followed by Pendlebury.

I would be keen to hear who people think held the mantle immediately prior to Bucks, and whether Grundy actually took over from Pendlebury in the last few years.

 

[sideswipe]

Start from when people feel knowledgeable/confident enough to comment!

Is your rule that there can only be one Baton Holder at any particular point in time?

 

[jonbe54]

I'd like to frame it (a little) differently.

One player was very talented the other was a once-in-a-generation freak. Both supreme on the field but only Peter has recorded a 97 goal season.

Didak was awesome, it's doing him a diservice comparing him to Daics.

I get what you're saying but both played the same sort of role yet one was all about the result and the other one was all about look at me.

We both know who was who and I've never been about the self involved trumpet blowers in footy.

Dids was a great footballer but never made the rate to be a standard bearer / baton passer in my book - too self involved.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Is your rule that there can only be one Baton Holder at any particular point in time?

There can always be exceptional circumstances but that would be the general idea. It isn’t a participation award!

 

[sideswipe]

There can always be exceptional circumstances but that would be the general idea. It isn’t a participation award!

Don't forget you are looking to award an individual in a team sport.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Don't forget you are looking to award an individual in a team sport.

Of course, but it’s all subjective anyway. Only asking for input/discussion, prompted by a time when there is no clear “standout player” for us and people salivating over Daicos’ potential.