Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Gavstar]

What did he say ?

Well I misheard the mumbling thought he said 8-9 years at $1M but on re-listening I think he said 8 to 9 to $1M.

 

[DangerousD]

Why ? - he is a failed coach and absolute disaster actually. Easy to make up nice after the fact stories with snap hots of convenient made for narrative footage...proves nothing. Th esooner the Club stops chasing 'names' and starts investing in process and sticks to it -the better.

Fantastic playing experience
Premiership experience as a player
Senior coaching experience
Fantastic assistant coaching experience
Premiership experience as an assistant

What makes you think that a failed coach would be a disaster or a negative as an assistant? As for chasing names, this isn’t the same as the club just going after a recently retired player because they have a high profile, Leppa as a player and a coach has a very strong CV filled with success.

There are lots of former coaches currently serving as assistants and I’d like to think we would benefit from a senior assistant with a background like Justin’s.

 

[DangerousD]

Coaches are only as good or bad as their players allow them to be. Have a look at most team's game styles - apart from minor tweaks here and there they are all the same - and the major differences emerge around teams with specific strengths - but only at the margin.

Defensive deficiencies are much more about our forward fifty and midfield deficiencies than defensive coaching. We are getting absolutely smashed in inside 50 differentials and could/should be losing by many goals more if it wasnt for the defensive efforts (especially Weitering who is our best player btw) - they aerent getting much help from upfield or between the arcs defensive pressure - not enough to even have the time to set up structure even up to the centre square we have very low inside 50 tackle counts in forward 50 - this tells you where th problem starts - teams rebound really fast out of our forward 50 - noticed that?

We dont need a 'defensive coach' - we need imnprovement in midfield defensive effort and forward line defensive effort - this simple fact is obvious to anyone that watches games. How much the problem lies with unavailability of injured players and how much of this is poor coaching/game plan - we dont know.

SO if you are arguing Leppitsch is required to improve our back 6 defensive performance - you are arguing as it currently performs it needs help - I disagree.

Leppitsch is listed as being in charge of the forwards fwiw during Richmonds premierships.

From Wikipedia

 

[JustaBattler]

Fantastic playing experience
Premiership experience as a player
Senior coaching experience
Fantastic assistant coaching experience
Premiership experience as an assistant

What makes you think that a failed coach would be a disaster or a negative as an assistant? As for chasing names, this isn’t the same as the club just going after a recently retired player because they have a high profile, Leppa as a player and a coach has a very strong CV filled with success.

There are lots of former coaches currently serving as assistants and I’d like to think we would benefit from a senior assistant with a background like Justin’s.

What makes you think he could do a better job with our back six than what Amos is doing already? Why would Loyd replace the coach of our best performing part of the team with a new coach in that area when the problems are in other areas? .......

 

[JustaBattler]

Leppitsch is listed as being in charge of the forwards fwiw during Richmonds premierships.

From Wikipedia

Great - I'm sure Dustin Martin who won every single one of those permierships off his own boot learned so much from Lepper - yeah? Richmond dont have anything to teach anyone that doesn't want to play their systems or have their particular list to use to play their systems...

not sure I am a buyer of any Richmond is good lets get some fetish.

 

[windows1]

Interesting on that centre bounce stuff as well

Cripps, Curnow and Walsh don’t possess lighting acceleration


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn’t stop Cripps from being the best centre square clearance player in the game the three years before this year.

 

[DangerousD]

Great - I'm sure Dustin Martin who won every single one of those permierships off his own boot learned so much from Lepper - yeah? Richmond dont have anything to teach anyone that doesn't want to play their systems or have their particular list to use to play their systems...

not sure I am a buyer of any Richmond is good lets get some fetish.

Is there an anti Leppitsch thing here, have you had some beef in the past? What are you bringing Dusty up for? As far as I know Dusty was predominantly a midfielder in the premiership years, you asked why Lloyd would replace the defence coach, well I’m not pushing for the defence coach to be ousted, I’m looking at what quality assistants would be available and a 3 time premiership player, best and fairest winner, All Australian winner as a player, a guy with senior coaching experience and a guy with 3 premierships as an assistant (in charge of forwards) had a resume as good as any.

I get the idea, that you don’t just grab someone because they were at Richmond and they will be great, but he will have seen and contributed to the systems that delivered those premierships, how the players were developed, managed, tactics, the same as when he was a player, learning off one of the games great coaches.

Your Dusty comment is surely a bit sarcastic, a single player doesn’t win you 3 grand finals, they are a great team, who have got the most out of a decent but not fantastic list, the coaches would have had a massive part in this.

If he’s not interested or found to be not a good fit, fine, but I hope we are asking the question, Teague needs help and help from people who have been apart of good organisations and who aren’t afraid to tell him that an idea, plan or strategy is no good, and I think a guy with Leppitsch‘s experience would do that.

 

[The Bighouse]

Already said he doesn't want to be an assistant again ..

Has he?

Thought he was taking the year off and is in property development whilst working out how everything goes & if to return.

Reckon the pay cuts for the hours invested may have contributed, or just timing to try something else.

 

[TENACIOUS]

What makes you think he could do a better job with our back six than what Amos is doing already? Why would Loyd replace the coach of our best performing part of the team with a new coach in that area when the problems are in other areas? .......

Because he isn't doing that great of a job JAB..
We are 13th on the ladder again, our defence and our midfield defence connection are major issue's

Under Teague's 36 games coached we have conceded a 5 goal + swing in 22 of those games.
This year alone we have conceded over 100pts on 5 out of 8 occasions and Port also scored 98 points...

Need to take your blue coloured glasses off mate..

 

[windows1]

I watched the ‘analysis’ by King and Montagna on 360. They act like the defensive set up structures of the Demons were so amazing. Please. Every single club focuses on set up behind the ball at a stoppage. Their analysis revealed nothing. It’s not stoppage goals that kill us. It’s turnover goals. If they analysed THAT it would have been interesting.

 

[Zuribagger]

I was more concerned by the $$$ mentioned for Harry by Robbo - Buddy like money and length of contract

Schadenfreude... hoping to cause CFC some problems by hyping up H’s value.

 

[Bluey19]

What makes you think he could do a better job with our back six than what Amos is doing already? Why would Loyd replace the coach of our best performing part of the team with a new coach in that area when the problems are in other areas? .......

Do you watch our games? Have you seen our defensive set up? He will do a better job than Amos that is for certain.

With a little bit of defensive help we would be well on our way. To say defence is the best part our game is utterly ridiculous. It really is like you might not actually watch us play.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Has he?

Thought he was taking the year off and is in property development whilst working out how everything goes & if to return.

Reckon the pay cuts for the hours invested may have contributed, or just timing to try something else.

Yes he stated other morning that he not interested to be an assistant again he has done it twice -- but if opportunity arose for a head job he may consider it

 

[Stamos]

but if opportunity arose for a head job he may consider it

Who wouldn't?

 

[tarczonandjane]

That's true, but the opposite is more common

Parkin has stated on many occasions, that the most important factors of success are in this order..

List Management
Fitness/Availability
Development
Coaching

And I am a strong advocate of this order

You’ve probably said it before Arr0w, so I apologise. But with a stand-alone VFL and the arrivals of O’Keefe and Power, where do you think we are now at in terms of development?

 

[Arr0w]

You’ve probably said it before Arr0w, so I apologise. But with a stand-alone VFL and the arrivals of O’Keefe and Power, where do you think we are now at in terms of development?

Much better structure, but we still need to be patient as most of the on field improvements will come gradually over the next 12 months

 

[myblueroan]

Guaranteed smile on your dial.

 

[Gethelred]

I think that was more about agility than acceleration. It's why we need Cunners and Dow spending time in the guts.

And both need to learn to love a tackle.

In fact, the majority of Dow's issues would be mitigated by a 5+ tackle a game average and a few HTB's a game.

 

[Earls Smother]

Really interested in when you think we started playing defensively, in terms of chipping/controlling the pill.

To me it seemed like we went quicker and longer, while the Dogs dissected our man on man coverage across the ground

In simple terms - we got tired late in the third and couldn't maintain our attacking run. So by default we were forced to play more defensively - albeit not that successfully.

The main problem with the attacking style was that 2 major cogs in our midfield, Cripps and Williams, were simply not fit enough to maintain genuine 4 quarter efforts. If we had Martin, Murphy and Fisher playing, we may have been able to take up the slack by rotating enough to get by. Against their very strong midfield, (and carrying more forwards who can't rotate as mids) we basically ran out of fit rotations to keep doing what we had been doing to that point.

I agree with you that in this particular game, there had to be a realisation from the coaching group that we couldn't maintain Teague's preferred style for the whole game. We should have sensed (as anyone watching did) that the tide was turning late in the third, and shut the game down. Against most teams, given how well we had played, we would have opened up an unassailable lead by that point in the game and been able to cruise home. It's just that the Dogs were fitter and deeper than us in the middle, which was to be expected.

I agree with Blue_Balls, in that we need to execute periods of energy conserving play, in order to be able to sustain the preferred method for longer into the game. It seems we have prepared all preseason to play the attacking style, but find ourselves currently lacking enough players fit enough to carry it out for long enough against the better/fitter teams. I have no doubt that we would have won that game if Cripps and Williams were able to be replaced by 2 fully fit mids who could run out a full game. Not only are we missing some handy "next-tier" mid options (mentioned above), but we are also missing the third-tier youngsters like Carroll, Kemp and Philp who would be very useful in our current situation.

Medium to long term we are fine, just need to scrape together enough W's to still be in the mix at the bye.

 

[James_Blues]

In simple terms - we got tired late in the third and couldn't maintain our attacking run. So by default we were forced to play more defensively - albeit not that successfully.

The main problem with the attacking style was that 2 major cogs in our midfield, Cripps and Williams, were simply not fit enough to maintain genuine 4 quarter efforts. If we had Martin, Murphy and Fisher playing, we may have been able to take up the slack by rotating enough to get by. Against their very strong midfield, (and carrying more forwards who can't rotate as mids) we basically ran out of fit rotations to keep doing what we had been doing to that point.

I agree with you that in this particular game, there had to be a realisation from the coaching group that we couldn't maintain Teague's preferred style for the whole game. We should have sensed (as anyone watching did) that the tide was turning late in the third, and shut the game down. Against most teams, given how well we had played, we would have opened up an unassailable lead by that point in the game and been able to cruise home. It's just that the Dogs were fitter and deeper than us in the middle, which was to be expected.

I agree with Blue_Balls, in that we need to execute periods of energy conserving play, in order to be able to sustain the preferred method for longer into the game. It seems we have prepared all preseason to play the attacking style, but find ourselves currently lacking enough players fit enough to carry it out for long enough against the better/fitter teams. I have no doubt that we would have won that game if Cripps and Williams were able to be replaced by 2 fully fit mids who could run out a full game. Not only are we missing some handy "next-tier" mid options (mentioned above), but we are also missing the third-tier youngsters like Carroll, Kemp and Philp who would be very useful in our current situation.

Medium to long term we are fine, just need to scrape together enough W's to still be in the mix at the bye.

There was arguably a level of mismanagement of our rotations and Cripps through this game though particularly through the second half of the game. He sat the first 7min of the 3rd on the bench and then played the next 25min consecutively. And he only got 90 seconds rest in the last quarter. It doesn't matter how good or fit you are, no player is going to be effective in such long bursts.

That's not to say this was the reason we lost though

 

[Earls Smother]

There was arguably a level of mismanagement of our rotations and Cripps through this game though particularly through the second half of the game. He sat the first 7min of the 3rd on the bench and then played the next 25min consecutively. And he only got 90 seconds rest in the last quarter. It doesn't matter how good or fit you are, no player is going to be effective in such long bursts.

That's not to say this was the reason we lost though

That (and rotting up forward) is clearly related to managing his injury. We basically lost him as a useful mid rotation for the second half, which leaves too much to too few.

 

[sparkyblue]

Have always found this line an awful disrespect to coaches worldwide who work ridiculous hours to get every last inch out of organisations, teams, tactics etc and are clearly major influences on players development, consistency, performance, mental health etc. It's intentionally naive to think otherwise.

I've seen first hand coaches take a group that finished last to a premiership and the other way round without player change. They wouldn't be paid so much if they weren't important. Coaching is exceedingly important and often can make up for a lack of talent, immensely so.

Agreed. My experience working with Tom Coughlin for a year was night and day compared to what came before.

 

[LFTWNG11]

Do you watch our games? Have you seen our defensive set up? He will do a better job than Amos that is for certain.

With a little bit of defensive help we would be well on our way. To say defence is the best part our game is utterly ridiculous. It really is like you might not actually watch us play.

The defensive side of our midfield is the problem, not our back 6.

 

[Coops93]

The defensive side of our midfield is the problem, not our back 6.

It's hard to have a lot of defensive pressure in your midfield when 1 bloke has a fractured back.. not sure how much physical pressure he can lay and immediately you're a man down when they have the ball as a result. It's a liability.

Having said that, it's not the midfields fault Jones is ball watching while a guy is 50 metres behind him in the goal square unmarked.

Both are to blame to a degree. The midfield moreso in my opinion but it's not like the backline are faultless in this.

 

[LFTWNG11]

It's hard to have a lot of defensive pressure in your midfield when 1 bloke has a fractured back.. not sure how much physical pressure he can lay and immediately you're a man down when they have the ball as a result. It's a liability.

Having said that, it's not the midfields fault Jones is ball watching while a guy is 50 metres behind him in the goal square unmarked.

Both are to blame to a degree. The midfield moreso in my opinion but it's not like the backline are faultless in this.

Agree with most that although our back 6 are asked to do way more than their fair share because our midfield pressure is non-existent. Our back 6 is tasked with being perfect while our midfielders don't have to lift a finger defensively.

Not sure why we aren't going in with another big bodied inside midfielder considering Cripps is cooked at the moment. It seems like Zak Williams has come in at the cost of Setters and we are being exposed on the inside.