Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Blue_Fusion]

There's one thing that's been consistent...

They won't drop any senior players after poor performances.

I reckon that until that starts happening, nothing will change.

Where's the incentive when they're pretty much guaranteed to keep their spot?

Where's the motivation going to come from for the younger players if they have to move Heaven and Earth just to get a game? And then they play better than said senior players only to be overlooked anyway (OMac v Levi as an example)

I am really concerned regarding who will be dropped to make way for Betts...

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

There's one thing that's been consistent...

They won't drop any senior players after poor performances.

I reckon that until that starts happening, nothing will change.

Where's the incentive when they're pretty much guaranteed to keep their spot?

Where's the motivation going to come from for the younger players if they have to move Heaven and Earth just to get a game? And then they play better than said senior players only to be overlooked anyway (OMac v Levi as an example)

I am really concerned regarding who will be dropped to make way for Betts...

The point has always been wait until the VFL players show enough to deserve spots, which isn’t helpful when we choose not to play a VFL practice match against Collingwood who also had the week off.

 

[thylacine60]

Another makeshift half back.

I actually think Fogarty has the tools to be a good small defender.

nsis - how many more played out of position - next the bootstudder will be coaching....... hey wait a minute........

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Maybe it's both At least if the players followed the game-plan, we might move up from shambolic to garbage.

Our biggest issue is clearly lack of defensive pressure. I don't know what the hell is going on but it's just not AFL standard pressure/tackling we are bringing to these games.

I'd say the next issue is the seemingly complete disconnect between the three attack/mid/defense lines.

As ODN alluded to, it feels like nobody has been capable of teaching this playing group to properly defend in over a decade despite the fact that in that time, every player/position has been replaced often multiple times.

I've been saying it for a couple of seasons, but our most experienced player in Murphy leads the way on this.
Offers zero, zilch, nada, SFA defensively, and imo, it permeates through the whole group.
We will not progress until this is addressed, ie, he is dropped

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

There's one thing that's been consistent...

They won't drop any senior players after poor performances.

I reckon that until that starts happening, nothing will change.

Where's the incentive when they're pretty much guaranteed to keep their spot?

Where's the motivation going to come from for the younger players if they have to move Heaven and Earth just to get a game? And then they play better than said senior players only to be overlooked anyway (OMac v Levi as an example)

I am really concerned regarding who will be dropped to make way for Betts...

Hear, hear!!!

 

[Stamos]

I kind of feel like the comments exaggerate the issue by an extra 25 per cent.

The loss against Collingwood was effort based. I suspect there will be 3-4 changes.

It was structural at least as much as effort.
I want the media to go hard. It's the most despondent I've been after a loss post rebuild, because I'm worried that we're blowing it.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I kind of feel like the comments exaggerate the issue by an extra 25 per cent.

The loss against Collingwood was effort based. I suspect there will be 3-4 changes.

Eh there's reasons it looks effort based though. Our gps numbers are good which suggests effort is there. Effort looks bad when you're gassed because the system requires you to run to bad spots then try to catch up with your direct opponent when we don't have the ball.

Genuinely think the effort is questionable but the system is the bigger issue.

 

[DangerousD]

The problem is that with Newman and Marchbank still injured, and Parks a little underdone, who takes SPS' spot in defence?

Stocker

 

[Coops93]

Eh there's reasons it looks effort based though. Our gps numbers are good which suggests effort is there. Effort looks bad when you're gassed because the system requires you to run to bad spots then try to catch up with your direct opponent when we don't have the ball.

Genuinely think the effort is questionable but the system is the bigger issue.

Simply doing the KMs doesn't mean much in the end. How much of that was at high speed/intensity vs jogging around. How much was when chasing a man, applying pressure or running hard in support in attack? That's where effort really shows, at this level anyone can jog around a field ticking up kms.

I decided to look up the numbers to see how we did in those areas and interestingly we did ok in sprints and repeat sprints, and more interestingly Dow was one of the top guys in average speed, repeat sprints and attacking/defensive work rates (average speed in attack & defense). So he's putting in the effort just not getting the rewards.

We ran 6km total more than Collingwood and 1.5km more at high speed.

However where a noticable difference occurs is in attack we averaged 7.7 km/h, Collingwood 6.8km/h, however it defense we averaged 6.9km/h and Collingwood 7.5km/h. The top 5 average speeds in attack were all Carlton, the top 5 speeds in Defence were all Collingwood except 1, Paddy Dow.

That's where it was noticable imo, Collingwood defensive pressure compared to ours was light years apart. That to me is Teagues gameplan as he's made no secret about wanting to play very fast attacking football.

I went into that thinking the effort was the issue, but the numbers reflect the messaging Teague has been giving out. The attacking workrate is there, but the defensive effort isn't and that was blatantly obvious on field the way the Pies sliced through us time after time after time.

Perhaps Arr0w is on to something with it being the coaching philosophy and not all effort. The effort seems to be going into the things Teague often emphasises; attack.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Simply doing the KMs doesn't mean much in the end. How much of that was at high speed/intensity vs jogging around. How much was when chasing a man, applying pressure or running hard in support in attack? That's where effort really shows, at this level anyone can jog around a field ticking up kms.

I decided to look up the numbers to see how we did in those areas and interestingly we did ok in sprints and repeat sprints, and more interestingly Dow was one of the top guys in average speed, repeat sprints and attacking/defensive work rates (average speed in attack & defense). So he's putting in the effort just not getting the rewards.

We ran 6km total more than Collingwood and 1.5km more at high speed.

However where a noticable difference occurs is in attack we averaged 7.7 km/h, Collingwood 6.8km/h, however it defense we averaged 6.9km/h and Collingwood 7.5km/h. The top 5 average speeds in attack were all Carlton, the top 5 speeds in Defence were all Collingwood except 1, Paddy Dow.

That's where it was noticable imo, Collingwood defensive pressure compared to ours was light years apart. That to me is Teagues gameplan as he's made no secret about wanting to play very fast attacking football.

I went into that thinking the effort was the issue, but the numbers reflect the messaging Teague has been giving out. The attacking workrate is there, but the defensive effort isn't and that was blatantly obvious on field the way the Pies sliced through us time after time after time.

Perhaps Arr0w is on to something with it being Teagues philosophy and not all effort. The effort seems to be going into the things Teague often emphasises; attack.

Then issue is - our attack makes the field large. So we spread and spread really hard. Often requiring difficult kicks and definitely more running. The biggest issue with that is the more difficult kicks and fast spread from stoppages are accompanied by players cheating by spreading before we've actually won a clearance and poor disposal by players like ed who hack kicks out of a clearance. For this system to work we need clean exits. Which Cripps has been struggling with. So the flip side ends up being we've run off our opponents hard and can't turn and chase fast enough. Excess running for reward only when we have a clean exit.

 

[Stamos]

Simply doing the KMs doesn't mean much in the end. How much of that was at high speed/intensity vs jogging around. How much was when chasing a man, applying pressure or running hard in support in attack? That's where effort really shows, at this level anyone can jog around a field ticking up kms.

I decided to look up the numbers to see how we did in those areas and interestingly we did ok in sprints and repeat sprints, and more interestingly Dow was one of the top guys in average speed, repeat sprints and attacking/defensive work rates (average speed in attack & defense). So he's putting in the effort just not getting the rewards.

We ran 6km total more than Collingwood and 1.5km more at high speed.

However where a noticable difference occurs is in attack we averaged 7.7 km/h, Collingwood 6.8km/h, however it defense we averaged 6.9km/h and Collingwood 7.5km/h. The top 5 average speeds in attack were all Carlton, the top 5 speeds in Defence were all Collingwood except 1, Paddy Dow.

That's where it was noticable imo, Collingwood defensive pressure compared to ours was light years apart. That to me is Teagues gameplan as he's made no secret about wanting to play very fast attacking football.

I went into that thinking the effort was the issue, but the numbers reflect the messaging Teague has been giving out. The attacking workrate is there, but the defensive effort isn't and that was blatantly obvious on field the way the Pies sliced through us time after time after time.

Perhaps Arr0w is on to something with it being the coaching philosophy and not all effort. The effort seems to be going into the things Teague often emphasises; attack.

It's about the structure, not the effort. We're standing in the wrong positions, so we're not getting reward for the effort we put in.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Then issue is - our attack makes the field large. So we spread and spread really hard. Often requiring difficult kicks and definitely more running. The biggest issue with that is the more difficult kicks and fast spread from stoppages are accompanied by players cheating by spreading before we've actually won a clearance and poor disposal by players like ed who hack kicks out of a clearance. For this system to work we need clean exits. Which Cripps has been struggling with. So the flip side ends up being we've run off our opponents hard and can't turn and chase fast enough. Excess running for reward only when we have a clean exit.

That and a lot of our attacks from rebound defence, completely bypass the midfield .... our mids are stuck like piggy in the middle watching the ball ping from R50 --> I50 and back again ... atm they are doing a lot of unnecessary running.

 

[FRUMPY]

I've been saying it for a couple of seasons, but our most experienced player in Murphy leads the way on this.
Offers zero, zilch, nada, SFA defensively, and imo, it permeates through the whole group.
We will not progress until this is addressed, ie, he is dropped

And then you hear how he mentors these younger mids coming through and does video analysis with them.....

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

 

[JustaBattler]

That and a lot of our attacks from rebound defence, completely bypass the midfield .... our mids are stuck like piggy in the middle watching the ball ping from R50 --> I50 and back again ... atm they are doing a lot of unnecessary running.

It gets to the point Arr0w has been labouring over. No need to go flat out all the time- mix things up - learn how to pace the game and get all your team mates into the game. If they want to play run and gun the opposition - maybe turn it into a grind control momentum more.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

And then you hear how he mentors these younger mids coming through and does video analysis with them.....

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

Hope he doesn't use his efforts as the example

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Probably want to go a bit older than the 6th year players as the cutoff.... we've only got 25 players on the list who are born after '96, and fiveof them are currently injured...

Not to mention there's a few others a little older than that who go alright.... Cripps, Doc, Saad, Williams, Martin, etc

More so alluding to pre Bolton players, not players traded in from other clubs.
When you look at other clubs ie. Port Trade in a player putting out a senior player while bringing in youth creating massive depth.
With our trend it would not surprise me if we drop Dow for Betts this week.

 

[Gavstar]

Stocker

Cunningham?

 

[Arr0w]

That and a lot of our attacks from rebound defence, completely bypass the midfield .... our mids are stuck like piggy in the middle watching the ball ping from R50 --> I50 and back again ... atm they are doing a lot of unnecessary running.

This really stands out

We are 3 different units, due to the lack of overlap run. Partly from breakneck speed and to dispose of it long, or the new forward handball tactic, reminiscent of the John Northey style

We aren't intertwining, due to how spread and wide or setup is

 

[Metalcrusher]

This really stands out

We are 3 different units, due to the lack of overlap run. Partly from breakneck speed and to dispose of it long, or the new forward handball tactic, reminiscent of the John Northey style

We aren't intertwining, due to how spread and wide or setup is

I think you nailed a few days ago with how wide we spread. The central corridor becomes indefensible....

 

[Sammoll]

The Brisbane vs Collingwood game this week has been changed from Brisbane to Melbourne due to COVID. There has now been community transmission of COVID detected in Gold Coast and we are scheduled to be playing away there in Rd 4 on the Saturday. This could possibly mean the game gets swapped to a home game for us similar to what has happened with Collingwood. The only issue is that on the Saturday in question there is already a match at Marvel between St Kilda and West Coast and there's a match at the MCG between Collingwood and GWS, and the next day on Sunday Marvel is again being used by North and Adelaide and the G by Melbourne vs Geelong. Could this possibly force us into using Princes Park for one final time in the H&A season? 75% capacity of the 25,000 would leave about 18,750 tickets which is probably only a few thousand shy of what we'd have pulled at Marvel anyway. Sure the stadium itself isn't at the best standard, but it's been good for AFLW and this would just be a one-off instance forced by the COVID circumstances. It would give us a good home-ground advantage in a crucial game too.

 

[__Bobcat__]

And then you hear how he mentors these younger mids coming through and does video analysis with them.....

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

WTF.

 

[__Bobcat__]

It gets to the point Arr0w has been labouring over. No need to go flat out all the time- mix things up - learn how to pace the game and get all your team mates into the game. If they want to play run and gun the opposition - maybe turn it into a grind control momentum more.

Compose.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Stocker

Or Newnes..

 

[JustaBattler]

I think you nailed a few days ago with how wide we spread. The central corridor becomes indefensible....

Which is fine - if you convert more of your entries- which is harder to do if you've only got one fit(ish) tall....be careful writing off the game plan - before it can actually be tested.

 

[katmanblue]

I kind of feel like the comments exaggerate the issue by an extra 25 per cent.

The loss against Collingwood was effort based. I suspect there will be 3-4 changes.

System based as well.

No one is talking about Martin's lack of accountability in the forward line, allowing Quaynor the easy exit down the guts which led to a mark and goal at the other end.