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The difference between a hard ball get and contested possession?
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Hard Ball Get : this is a term used predominantly in the Australian Football League (AFL) to describe a 50 50 ball that is contested fiercely. Getting a 'hard ball get' is generally associated with tougher, better players who are not afraid to get involved in the game.
Contested possession : a possession achieved as a result of winning a contest.
- Banned
- #3
A contested possession is divided up into loose ball gets and hard ball gets.
A hard ball get is a ball which is in dispute, whereas a loose ball get is a non-disputed ball which is claimed within 1 metre of an opponent.
A hard ball get is a ball which is in dispute, whereas a loose ball get is a non-disputed ball which is claimed within 1 metre of an opponent.
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- #4
I am still not seeing the difference here.
How does Champion Data know how many players are involved in a ground ball contest for it to be deemed a 50 50 contest.
If there are seven players all involved in a contest and one player wins that contest isn't it a contested possession?
If there are two players involved in a contest at ground level and one wins it isn't it a contested possession?
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Which crossed the road first, the hard ball get or the contested possession?
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I dont know about the exact right answer but as far as I'm concerned
Hard ball get = a disputed ball that you win posession of for your team
Contested Possession = a kick or handball where an opposition player is within tackling range
The way i see the difference is the hard ball get is GAINING possession while the Contested Posession is the DISPOSAL of the ball
Hard ball get = a disputed ball that you win posession of for your team
Contested Possession = a kick or handball where an opposition player is within tackling range
The way i see the difference is the hard ball get is GAINING possession while the Contested Posession is the DISPOSAL of the ball
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Is hard ball get an official stat?
So if Player A 'gains' possession and then disposes while still under pressure that handball is a Hard ball get AND and CP?
Just as confusing as an effective disposal I guess.
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Yes I would believe so. If he gathers a bouncing ball under pressure, or gets a ball that spills out of a pack and then kicks it while still under pressure it would be a HBG and a CP.
As far as I understand it anyway, I'm far from an expert.
So you could scoop the ball up, run 2m and get tackled for a ball-up. You would get a hard ball get, but no contested possession.
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- #9
Correct, except they're both possessions and not disposals.
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But dont you need to get a kick or handball to get a CP?
Whereas with a hardball get all thats required is to control the ball?
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- #11
No, all you have to do is take possession. A contested mark is also considered a contested possession. And you need only take the mark.
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No, there are plenty of examples where the possession count is above or below the disposal count. You can check this out for yourself.
A higher disposal count would be kicking the ball without taking possession I guess.
http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/nab-challenge/2014/1/carl-v-adel
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See this is confusing...
Possession
the act of obtaining the ball. Also used synonymously with disposal and touch. Often quoted as a total for a player or team, it is the sum of the number of handballs and kicks that the player or team had during the game
It says the definition is getting the ball, but then says its measured in handballs/kicks?
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- #15
Yes, but only when used synonymously for handballs/kicks.
Champion Data have a clear distinction between the two terms.
However the terms are not always used correctly by some professional commentators who really should know the difference by now. You still get the occasional commentator who scratches his head at how the CP/UP numbers don't add up to the disposal count.
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Yeah fair enough, thats where I was being misled this whole time.
I would love to be one of the champion data gurus at games. Really liked the look of it when they did a 'backstage' tour on channel 7 last year.
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Cheers I always wondered why a players avg CP and UP didn't match their avg disposal.
eg Ziebell avged 11 CP and 9.9UP = 20.9
But his disposal avg was 21.1
Champion_Data
Senior List
Possessions will not equal Disposals.
Examples of winning a possession but not a disposal:
Contested Possessions = Hard Ball Gets + Loose Ball Gets + Contested Marks + Free Kicks (excluding ones paid off the ball) + Gathers from a teammate's Hitout to Advantage.
Hard Ball Gets = "A disputed ball at ground level under direct physical pressure that results in an opportunity to effect a legal disposal."
Loose Ball Gets = "A disputed ball at ground level not under direct physical pressure that results in an opportunity to effect a legal disposal."
General rule of thumb: Contested Possessions are when you had to win the ball, Uncontested Possessions are when someone gives it to you.
Hope this clears some things up.
Examples of winning a possession but not a disposal:
- Caught holding the ball
- Winning the ball, running, trying to bounce and stuffing it up
- Winning the ball and having a teammate give away a free kick
- Winning the ball and having the siren go (and not electing to take the kick if it is after a mark)
- Kicks off the ground
- Kicks/Handballs after kicking-in to self
- Kicks/Handballs from the boundary line after an opposition out on the full
- Shots at goal after a teammate has marked but has gone off injured (eg. Jay Schulz)
Contested Possessions = Hard Ball Gets + Loose Ball Gets + Contested Marks + Free Kicks (excluding ones paid off the ball) + Gathers from a teammate's Hitout to Advantage.
Hard Ball Gets = "A disputed ball at ground level under direct physical pressure that results in an opportunity to effect a legal disposal."
Loose Ball Gets = "A disputed ball at ground level not under direct physical pressure that results in an opportunity to effect a legal disposal."
General rule of thumb: Contested Possessions are when you had to win the ball, Uncontested Possessions are when someone gives it to you.
Hope this clears some things up.
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Awesome cheers. I've been interchanging between disposals and possies as if they were the same thing. doh.
How can a ball be disputed but NOT under direct physical pressure? Or am I taking disputed too literally?
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Champion_Data
Senior List
Our suggestion is that disposals should always be used, not possessions.
Disputed ball essentially means that if you didn't pick it up, an opponent could have. Imagine two players approaching a ball from opposite directions. One player gets there just before the second, so when he gets the ball it is in dispute, but the other player doesn't have physical contact with the first because he hasn't got to the contest yet.
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