Mega Thread The Flat Earth Mega thread.

[NEGAN]

The shape of the Earth I don't really have a dog in the fight, but whether the Earth's moving.....eek.

 

[bourbons]

Great now we can throw out foucaults pendulum and High priest Neil Degrass claiming a Feild goal punt win was caused by coriolis. Can't have both ways my man....
Added to this if the speed of the Earth was the second reference frame planes travelling north/south would be heading east to west and our bodies would need to adjust and feel the difference.


Why is the Earth an open system?

Because energy comes in and out, because matter can escape and come in


Is the Earth's speed constant ...yes or no?

Doesn't matter what they say about why or how we don't feel it....point being it isn't constant. (Off the top of my head faster when we are closer to the sun?) I think.....of course they are going to tell you can't feel it because it has to fit in with the rest of the narrative.

Not sure why it rules out Foucault pendulums? There are still 2 points, the extremities of the pendulums swing. Not familiar the Degrasse Tyson football example but sounds kinda silly, too many variables - wind, spin etc. I would think planes are constantly making small adjustments over their flight time.

Oh ok, I got ya. I was talking specifically in relation to the jumping/rotating example - what does energy or matter going in or out have to do with gravity and the earth's movement? Why is it such an issue for the system to be considered open in relation to, for example, a shuttle exerting enough force to escape the atmosphere but closed in relation to leaving the ground while still remaining very close to the surface?

Earth's roatation is at a more or less constant speed (think its actually slowing by a few milliseconds per century or something?), the orbit around the sun is not due to it being an elliptical rather than circular path. But as mentioned, considering the scale of the numbers involved, its not actually that big a change in speed and it occurs over a period of 6 months.

edit: apparently at its closest to the sun, the earth is moving at about 30,300 meters per second and at its furthest is moving at 29,300 m/s. So a difference of 1000 m/s. 6 months is 182.5 days x 24 (hours in a day) x 60 (mins in an hour) x 60 (seconds in a minute) = 15,768,000 seconds. The 1000 m/s difference spread over 15,768,000 seconds is.. well my calculator spat out a weird number with a superscript -5 at the end, so if I'm in the ballpark the actual acceleration you'd feel each second is around 0.0000634 m/s.

I don't think "they" need that to fit with any narrative, pretty obvious the human body wouldn't be able to feel it.

 

[NEGAN]

Not sure why it rules out Foucault pendulums? There are still 2 points, the extremities of the pendulums swing. Not familiar the Degrasse Tyson football example but sounds kinda silly, too many variables - wind, spin etc. I would think planes are constantly making small adjustments over their flight time.

Oh ok, I got ya. I was talking specifically in relation to the jumping/rotating example - what does energy or matter going in or out have to do with gravity and the earth's movement? Why is it such an issue for the system to be considered open in relation to, for example, a shuttle exerting enough force to escape the atmosphere but closed in relation to leaving the ground while still remaining very close to the surface?

Earth's roatation is at a more or less constant speed (think its actually slowing by a few milliseconds per century or something?), the orbit around the sun is not due to it being an elliptical rather than circular path. But as mentioned, considering the scale of the numbers involved, its not actually that big a change in speed and it occurs over a period of 6 months.

edit: apparently at its closest to the sun, the earth is moving at about 30,300 meters per second and at its furthest is moving at 29,300 m/s. So a difference of 1000 m/s. 6 months is 182.5 days x 24 (hours in a day) x 60 (mins in an hour) x 60 (seconds in a minute) = 15,768,000 seconds. The 1000 m/s difference spread over 15,768,000 seconds is.. well my calculator spat out a weird number with a superscript -5 at the end, so if I'm in the ballpark the actual acceleration you'd feel each second is around 0.0000634 m/s.

I don't think "they" need that to fit with any narrative, pretty obvious the human body wouldn't be able to feel it.

Admit it you are literally copying and pasting what you've googled with no understanding of what they are saying.

The foucaults pendulum?...the pilot adjust for coriolis ...is this true ? I am sure they make adjustments but for coriolis travelling north or south? I don't know? I would like to hear it from a pilot if they do.

You're last paragraph is like word for of some nuffs post I have read before somewhere on some forum. But his mathematics means absolutely nothing without experimentation like trying to say the Earth spins at half the speed of the hour hand yeah sure at the poles but.....1000mph is 1000mph.

 

[Wallaby]

Just a minor point - the coriolis force would apply on a flat earth model as well.

 

[bourbons]

Admit it you are literally copying and pasting what you've googled with no understanding of what they are saying.

The foucaults pendulum?...the pilot adjust for coriolis ...is this true ? I am sure they make adjustments but for coriolis travelling north or south? I don't know? I would like to hear it from a pilot if they do.

You're last paragraph is like word for of some nuffs post I have read before somewhere on some forum. But his mathematics means absolutely nothing without experimentation like trying to say the Earth spins at half the speed of the hour hand yeah sure at the poles but.....1000mph is 1000mph.

Eh? I've definitely googled this stuff, but like I said it was awhile ago. What I'm writing now is what I remember - definitely possible I've got some of it wrong, I'm certainly no physicist. Point out exactly what is wrong with the foucault pendulum example as opposed to just writing the words 'foucaults pendulum' if you'd like to actually discuss it.

Assumption on my part re: planes but it stands to reason does it not? What flight in history would take off, pick a heading then not need to touch the controls again until it arrives 10 hours later. Wind and weather if nothing else? I'm sure it's all automated these days but even before that, I assume the pilot would fly with the help of a compass and would be touching the controls fairly regularly to keep the plane on course?

I don't doubt that you've probably seen similar calculations before - its a pretty reasonable explanation for why we don't feel the incredibly small amount of acceleration. Not sure why it being prevalent argues against its accuracy, I'd think that would suggest the opposite.

 

[darthbards]

Hi darth, just responding to posts from Negan - he asked me to explain why the earth doesn't rotate under us when we leave the ground.

Thanks Bourbons,at the FES we believe the reason the earth doesn't rotate under us when we aren't on the ground is because it's not rotating,same reason as to why we are not flung off.

At the FES we are delighted our movement is growing to such an extent that this thread has reached 292 pages,and growing,including the panic displayed by some in minor positions of authority. Shows people are really taking an interest,which is always terrific.

I can gleefully say the FEIC has been in preliminary discussions with the FES to do a representation of this thread at their next public conference to discuss the various aspects of the current 292 pages,so we can't thank everyone involved enough.

 

[bourbons]

Just a minor point - the coriolis force would apply on a flat earth model as well.

If it was spinning, yep

 

[bourbons]

Thanks Bourbons,at the FES we believe the reason the earth doesn't rotate under us when we aren't on the ground is because it's not rotating,same reason as to why we are not flung off.

At the FES we are delighted our movement is growing to such an extent that this thread has reached 292 pages,and growing,including the panic displayed by some in minor positions of authority. Shows people are really taking an interest,which is always terrific.

I can gleefully say the FEIC has been in preliminary discussions with the FES to do a representation of this thread at their next public conference to discuss the various aspects of the current 292 pages,so we can't thank everyone involved enough.

Thanks darth, I honestly can't tell if you're legit or just a really dedicated troll

Apoplogies or well played as the case dictates

 

[darthbards]

Thanks darth, I honestly can't tell if you're legit or just a really dedicated troll

Apoplogies or well played as the case dictates

I think the Victorian and Western Australian Police needing to get involved after my personal details were somehow obtained,then posted on this thread is proof enough I'm genuine.

 

[NEGAN]

Eh? I've definitely googled this stuff, but like I said it was awhile ago. What I'm writing now is what I remember - definitely possible I've got some of it wrong, I'm certainly no physicist. Point out exactly what is wrong with the foucault pendulum example as opposed to just writing the words 'foucaults pendulum' if you'd like to actually discuss it.

Assumption on my part re: planes but it stands to reason does it not? What flight in history would take off, pick a heading then not need to touch the controls again until it arrives 10 hours later. Wind and weather if nothing else? I'm sure it's all automated these days but even before that, I assume the pilot would fly with the help of a compass and would be touching the controls fairly regularly to keep the plane on course?

I don't doubt that you've probably seen similar calculations before - its a pretty reasonable explanation for why we don't feel the incredibly small amount of acceleration. Not sure why it being prevalent argues against its accuracy, I'd think that would suggest the opposite.

I've seen similar calculations before simply because I remember reading your last paragraph almost word for word somewhere else....though I do believe the same calculations were used for weight gain during the acceleration not 100% sure. But the calculations are just that simple and cannot account for every possible variable imaginable ...and always always trying to bring the numbers smaller less significant.

You really shouldn't assume and pass it off as fact because some nuffs will read that and actually parrot it.

But keeping the argument on track YOU CANNOT have coriolis in a plane train etc therefore does not = heliocentric Earth. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Just a minor point - the coriolis force would apply on a flat earth model as well.

Well I don't think FE have a model but if they did I doubt it would have coriolis as it would be stationary.

A geocentric Earth works just as well as a heliocentric Earth and you don't need the nonsense /totally fantasy of things like expanding space ...

 

[darthbards]

I've seen similar calculations before simply because I remember reading your last paragraph almost word for word somewhere else....though I do believe the same calculations were used for weight gain during the acceleration not 100% sure. But the calculations are just that simple and cannot account for every possible variable imaginable ...and always always trying to bring the numbers smaller less significant.

You really shouldn't assume and pass it off as fact because some nuffs will read that and actually parrot it.

But keeping the argument on track YOU CANNOT have coriolis in a plane train etc therefore does not = heliocentric Earth. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Well I don't think FE have a model but if they did I doubt it would have coriolis as it would be stationary.

A geocentric Earth works just as well as a heliocentric Earth and you don't need the nonsense /totally fantasy of things like expanding space ...

Hi NEGAN,and it's wonderful to speak to you again.

At the FES we believe the Coriolis Effect is a fictitious effect,that has never been able to be demonstrated with experimental evidence. The ball loving evidence for Coriolis Effect are based on how things 'should be',and proponents of this theory present predictions rather than evidence.

At the FES we like to point out that the US Marine Corps,US Navy SEAL and US Army sniping manuals,there is no mention of Coriolis Effect in any of their texts.

 

[NEGAN]

Hi NEGAN,and it's wonderful to speak to you again.

At the FES we believe the Coriolis Effect is a fictitious effect,that has never been able to be demonstrated with experimental evidence. The ball loving evidence for Coriolis Effect are based on how things 'should be',and proponents of this theory present predictions rather than evidence.

At the FES we like to point out that the US Marine Corps,US Navy SEAL and US Army sniping manuals,there is no mention of Coriolis Effect in any of their texts.

It's a real effect....just not on heliocentric Earth... apparently

 

[iBeng]

Oh boy.

What if we didnt exist on an earth at all and it was just a Quantum folded loop of existence created by a superior spieces in their own life experiment?

 

[bourbons]

I think the Victorian and Western Australian Police needing to get involved after my personal details were somehow obtained,then posted on this thread is proof enough I'm genuine.

Oh, I'm not doubting you're an actual person. Genuine on the other hand...

But seriously, did that really happen? Not cool

 

[bourbons]

I've seen similar calculations before simply because I remember reading your last paragraph almost word for word somewhere else....though I do believe the same calculations were used for weight gain during the acceleration not 100% sure. But the calculations are just that simple and cannot account for every possible variable imaginable ...and always always trying to bring the numbers smaller less significant.

You really shouldn't assume and pass it off as fact because some nuffs will read that and actually parrot it.

But keeping the argument on track YOU CANNOT have coriolis in a plane train etc therefore does not = heliocentric Earth. You're comparing apples and oranges.

And? Again - not sure why having seen it before is some argument against legitimacy. I'm almost certain I've seen it before as well, probably why it came to mind as I was writing that post. I'm not claiming this as an original work or idea. And yeah of course it can't account for every possible variable - what it can do is give you a ballpark approximation of the forces involved. Even if you shift the decimal 2 places to the right you're still in a range that humans wouldn't be able to feel, would have to be a whole heap of variables to knock it out of whack more than that. The numbers are the numbers, "trying to bring the numbers smaller" makes no sense. Thats simply you indicating you don't buy widely accepted starting points like the earth's distance from the sun at the closest the furthest points of its orbit, or its orbital speed at those points. Which is fine, but implies that the starting numbers were made up to suit an end result, which I in turn don't buy.

You can keep stating it cannot happen, but you've yet to offer any insight as to why. You introduced the idea of the coriolos effect a few posts back in support of a non-moving earth. But all the reading I've done previously, plus a bit more last night, supports the idea of it occuring precisely because the earth is a sphere that rotates. This dicsussion grew out of you querying the car/truck/whatever jumping example - absolutely nothing I've seen so far about the coriolis effect invalidates that example.

 

[darthbards]

Oh, I'm not doubting you're an actual person. Genuine on the other hand...

But seriously, did that really happen? Not cool

Yeah,it happened.
The personal info was rightfully removed but there are still posts up where people are saying what a disgrace and the mods explaining not to do that kind of thing.

 

[bourbons]

...
At the FES we like to point out that the US Marine Corps,US Navy SEAL and US Army sniping manuals,there is no mention of Coriolis Effect in any of their texts.

...
Example - if i fire a large battleship gun straight up - it will fall straight down and blow up the ship.
If I fire it over water or land (and these things can have a range of over 50 kms) - then I have to allow for coriolis force. This has been done in the military for well over 100 years.

Hmm, we probably need to get this clarified, seems like a contradiction.

Less flight time for sniper shots than artillery perhaps?

 

[Quivorir]

Yeah,it happened.
The personal info was rightfully removed but there are still posts up where people are saying what a disgrace and the mods explaining not to do that kind of thing.

Didn't realise this had actually happened. I apologise. Any poster that does that type of shit can't be right in the head.

 

[Harvey Manfrenjensenden]

SSwans2011

You might like this

 

[darthbards]

SSwans2011

You might like this

Calling in reinforcements because you're unsure of the earths shape?
Need someone to hold your hand because of the big bad flat earthers?
The ball loving tactics regarding science is really extraordinary,we don't bite dude.

 

[Harvey Manfrenjensenden]

Calling in reinforcements because you're unsure of the earths shape?
Need someone to hold your hand because of the big bad flat earthers?
The ball loving tactics regarding science is really extraordinary,we don't bite dude.

Please.

He would be the last person I'd call as reinforcement.

Also I don't hold hands

 

[iBeng]

Balls.

Teehee.

 

[NEGAN]

One Number Shows Something Is Fundamentally Wrong with Our Conception of the Universe

This fight has universal implications.

www.space.com

Stop messing around and admit it's total nonsense.

We ain't moving, space isn't expanding and the concept of the vacuum of space breaks the laws of nature.

 

[iBeng]

Sometimes my wife says I make the Earth move for her.

 

[darthbards]

Sometimes my wife says I make the Earth move for her.

Sometimes my wife says I make the Earth move for her.

At the FES we totally applaud the concept of husbands and wives while we deplore the sinful concept of 'life partners' that some strange folk have tried to introduce and contaminate our thread with.