The future of the ABC - Guthrie sacked

[Number37]

That's pretty much his entire basis of argument.

To be fair to G_Crazy he has gained so much experience in public broadcasting working for his dad.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You argue point A. I argue point A equalls something you dislike. You say it isn't. I say it is, and back that up with how and why. You argue point B.

At some point, someone else will challenge point B, and you'll deflect again, then if they continue, you'll argue point A again, as though nothing happened.

GC, at some point you need to realise that people will just stop talking to you if you continue to post this way. What's the point with arguing with a circular door?

Yeah whenever someone uses this line on me its just because they don't like that I have proven them wrong, been used about 10 times on me.

Your trying to blur the lines between right and left, we all to some degree lean 1 way or the other and there are fundamental differences between those on the left vs those on thee right.

Its possible for someone to have right wing economic views and left wing social views and the other way around, the problem with the ABC is they all take a left wing view on key social issues.

By the way conservative traditional social views that keep things the same are typically right wing while progressive social views that advocate for change are typically left wing.

 

[Patrick Bullet]

Yeah whenever someone uses this line on me its just because they don't like that I have proven them wrong, been used about 10 times on me.

Super cool story, bro.

 

[madmug]

The truth when it comes to politics is often not black and white, that's why those involved are always disagreeing.

When it comes to social issues the ABC always take a far left position.

These issues include Climate Change, immigration, refugees, the united nations, feminism, safe schools, Trump, Aboriginal issues, identity politics, attacks on Christianity and the Palestine/Israel conflict. I am sure there are many more.

Always takes a far left position? What rot. Just because they don't preach hate, difference & division like Hanson & those types of rock crawlers do.

Climate change is a matter of science & data. Its the 'right' who have change the discussion into a point of belief. Belief has SFA to do with science.
Thats what makes so many 'deniers' look so damn idiotic.

 

[Gethelred]

Yeah whenever someone uses this line on me its just because they don't like that I have proven them wrong, been used about 10 times on me.

Yeah, ignoring arguments that don't work out for you is indeed an excellent way to win them, and it's pretty much the standard these days for the modern alt right. I'm rather not surprised you'd adopt it as a method, although you do realise that it entails that enlightenment is ever further away the more closed off you are from new ideas.

Your trying to blur the lines between right and left, we all to some degree lean 1 way or the other and there are fundamental differences between those on the left vs those on thee right.

I'm not blurring anything. The left/right dichotomy is as useless as it is outdated, and it's generally the right that seek to remind everyone that it exists, if only to make it clear who and what they oppose. You're almost always better off picking an issue to discuss, having a chat and sounding another person out on how they think about that particular issue, but that's rather hard to do when you're ignoring attitudes and ideas that result in an argument you won't win and/or disagree with your worldview.

Its possible for someone to have right wing economic views and left wing social views and the other way around, the problem with the ABC is they all take a left wing view on key social issues.

By the way conservative traditional social views that keep things the same are typically right wing while progressive social views that advocate for change are typically left wing.

Okay, then. Prove it.

Traditionally, liberal voters have comprised economically liberal and socially progressive types as well as conservative and religious voters, where the ALP have comprised lower and middle classes, and the Nats the country voters. The ABC caters to each of these groups in different ways; they have their variations of country hour between city and rural locations, they cover bushfires in local and countrywide radio; they provide talkback, allowing callers to confront government and opposition ministers and MPs on issues of importance to the viewers (in a wide variety of ways, whether on QandA, 7:30, or Hack on Triple J); they provide avenues for young artists and musicians to have their art appreciated by groups more diverse than just Australia, which have lead to musicians becoming world wide phenomenons, opera singers obtaining roles, comedians (of varying quality) getting their launch, and actors obtaining a launching pad; the newsrooms and journalism departments forming the backbones of the people who end up running newspapers and TV news programmes, doing investigative reporting which has unearthed necessary information about the people who run our country and how at times they have perverted our democracy via their deeds in our name.

People who spend their time outlining why the ABC is overbudgeted/unnecessary usually limit their coverage to the free to air television network, forgetting the substantial roles ABC24 and the radio division, and the value it has in creating careers for Australians, creating content and opening up marketplaces for others that some would find unavailable to them otherwise.

The ABC has significant value for every voter in Australia, and just as I wouldn't expect a 60 year old Catholic priest who disagreed with the changes made by Vatican 2 to listen in to the Hookup, nor would I expect a 14 year old hip-hop fan to tune into Classical FM to listen to Music in Time (although they really should. Benefit for anyone to get a grounding in more than a single style), but both of them are finding value in what the ABC is accomplishing with an increasingly smaller slice of the governmental pie. And just as this is true of their cultural products, so too is this true of the political side of their activities; there is (according to the frequent audits of the ABC which prove there is no bias towards the left on social or political issues!) value in Mediawatch, QandA, and in the wide variety of news only shows on the ABC.

Given that I don't believe you actually read the posts you quote, this'll be the last you hear from me on this particular thread. Do yourself a favour, though, and instead of shoving your fingers in your ears and saying 'If I can't hear you I've won the argument', and actually listen to what someone else (not necessarily me, although that'd be appreciated) is saying and why, instead of immediately smearing them with "Leftist! Helen, fetch the garlic!"

 

[Bombermania]

No you cant have left wing presenters pushing right wing points of view, it will just not work.I cant stand most ABC political programs.

Hiring based on a persons ability to perform a job is not a quota.

But what are right wing views?

Many Liberal party supporters who call themselves right wing are concerned about climate change, kids in off-shore detention centres, and supported a yes vote to gay marriage and like the ABC and the arts.

 

[Father Jack]

sometimes you have to ask whether a poster is serious about a discussion or is just here to troll

 

[NSWCROW]

Yeah, ignoring arguments that don't work out for you is indeed an excellent way to win them, and it's pretty much the standard these days for the modern alt right. I'm rather not surprised you'd adopt it as a method, although you do realise that it entails that enlightenment is ever further away the more closed off you are from new ideas.

I'm not blurring anything. The left/right dichotomy is as useless as it is outdated, and it's generally the right that seek to remind everyone that it exists, if only to make it clear who and what they oppose. You're almost always better off picking an issue to discuss, having a chat and sounding another person out on how they think about that particular issue, but that's rather hard to do when you're ignoring attitudes and ideas that result in an argument you won't win and/or disagree with your worldview.

Okay, then. Prove it.

Traditionally, liberal voters have comprised economically liberal and socially progressive types as well as conservative and religious voters, where the ALP have comprised lower and middle classes, and the Nats the country voters. The ABC caters to each of these groups in different ways; they have their variations of country hour between city and rural locations, they cover bushfires in local and countrywide radio; they provide talkback, allowing callers to confront government and opposition ministers and MPs on issues of importance to the viewers (in a wide variety of ways, whether on QandA, 7:30, or Hack on Triple J); they provide avenues for young artists and musicians to have their art appreciated by groups more diverse than just Australia, which have lead to musicians becoming world wide phenomenons, opera singers obtaining roles, comedians (of varying quality) getting their launch, and actors obtaining a launching pad; the newsrooms and journalism departments forming the backbones of the people who end up running newspapers and TV news programmes, doing investigative reporting which has unearthed necessary information about the people who run our country and how at times they have perverted our democracy via their deeds in our name.

People who spend their time outlining why the ABC is overbudgeted/unnecessary usually limit their coverage to the free to air television network, forgetting the substantial roles ABC24 and the radio division, and the value it has in creating careers for Australians, creating content and opening up marketplaces for others that some would find unavailable to them otherwise.

The ABC has significant value for every voter in Australia, and just as I wouldn't expect a 60 year old Catholic priest who disagreed with the changes made by Vatican 2 to listen in to the Hookup, nor would I expect a 14 year old hip-hop fan to tune into Classical FM to listen to Music in Time (although they really should. Benefit for anyone to get a grounding in more than a single style), but both of them are finding value in what the ABC is accomplishing with an increasingly smaller slice of the governmental pie. And just as this is true of their cultural products, so too is this true of the political side of their activities; there is (according to the frequent audits of the ABC which prove there is no bias towards the left on social or political issues!) value in Mediawatch, QandA, and in the wide variety of news only shows on the ABC.

Given that I don't believe you actually read the posts you quote, this'll be the last you hear from me on this particular thread. Do yourself a favour, though, and instead of shoving your fingers in your ears and saying 'If I can't hear you I've won the argument', and actually listen to what someone else (not necessarily me, although that'd be appreciated) is saying and why, instead of immediately smearing them with "Leftist! Helen, fetch the garlic!"

 

[madmug]

But what are right wing views?

Many Liberal party supporters who call themselves right wing are concerned about climate change, kids in off-shore detention centres, and supported a yes vote to gay marriage and like the ABC and the arts.

This is the thing. Generally labeling Labor left, Liberal right is a bit old hat. Socially progressive is usually a 'left' thing. But their was clearly some crossing of Lab/Lib voters on that. SSM & Migration issues do cross over a lot. Climate issues is certainly a cross over issue. The whole science v non science opinion does worry me a bit. It doesn't mean fully follow what the science says, but at least keep an open mind & factor in a sensible risk analysis. Economics may be a bit more traditional L v R. Maybe.
They use to say the biggest determinant of voting patterns is what ones parents voted for. That seems less of a set pattern now than ever before. Its much more volatile & issue based. I think a lot of people vote without a whole lot of conviction. The pollies claim a mandate on everything after an election. Even that annoys people who feel used & abused by self serving pollies. Maybe some contrition at times would help.

 

[Sainteric]

The ABC death is confirmed they passed on sea change 2.0

 

[ralphmalph]

The ABC death is confirmed they passed on sea change 2.0

Why?

 

[Sainteric]

Why?

It's the ABC?
probably because it might be popular with a few people

 

[ralphmalph]

It's the ABC?
probably because it might be popular with a few people

Why does passing on that show mean the death of the abc?

 

[NSWCROW]

Guthrie lodges her claim with FWA

 

[CakeEater]

Guthrie lodges her claim with FWA

She has a fair case as well

No Performance Management being enacted, no opportunity to correct her performance

Same rules apply to execs in this space as to the technicans on the shop floor.

 

[NSWCROW]

She has a fair case as well

No Performance Management being enacted, no opportunity to correct her performance

Same rules apply to execs in this space as to the technicans on the shop floor.

Inb4 " Labors fault "

 

[CakeEater]

Inb4 " Labors fault "

Just a continuation of the Snr Management thinking the rules in IR dont apply to them....

Happens all over the world.

Its why theres a built in cap on remuneration levels at which you can claim u/dismissal at.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The Libs & the I.P.A working in unison to render & tear apart the ABC every which way they can.....and all under the directorship of Herr Ruprect.

 

[Sainteric]

She has a fair case as well

No Performance Management being enacted, no opportunity to correct her performance

Same rules apply to execs in this space as to the technicans on the shop floor.

Not quite true, this is actually an interesting case of whether the general protections will cover someone obviously over the salary limit for unfair dismissal.

 

[Sainteric]

The Libs & the I.P.A working in unison to render & tear apart the ABC every which way they can.....and all under the directorship of Herr Ruprect.

I think the lefties do a pretty good job without others getting involved.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I think the lefties do a pretty good job without others getting involved.

Don't confuse the surface coating for what lies beneath.

 

[CakeEater]

Not quite true, this is actually an interesting case of whether the general protections will cover someone obviously over the salary limit for unfair dismissal.

They haven’t explicitly ruled out execs from being exempt to General Protection claims.

As I said above general protections applies to all covered by the Fw Act ( including execs). If they have inbuilt FW provisions into her contract they are in a lot of trouble.

 

[Bunkdar]

The Libs & the I.P.A working in unison to render & tear apart the ABC every which way they can.....and all under the directorship of Herr Ruprect.

I dunno if this was a long drawn out strategy
They 2 intchin in the pants 2 destroy it aren't they ?
One obvious thing that will show what this was all about is who they appoint 2 replace her and how long is the contract....enough time to cover until the next election ?

 

[NSWCROW]

MORE lib bullshit.....
When will it end ?.....


https://indaily.com.au/news/2018/10/19/abc-board-member-attends-liberal-party-fundraiser/

ABC board member attends Liberal Party fundraiser


And fancy that , she was 1 of the members who didn't have to go through the usual hiring process.....................................................................................

 

[TimmeT]

MORE lib bullshit.....
When will it end ?.....


https://indaily.com.au/news/2018/10/19/abc-board-member-attends-liberal-party-fundraiser/

ABC board member attends Liberal Party fundraiser


And fancy that , she was 1 of the members who didn't have to go through the usual hiring process.....................................................................................

Well government of the day decides to appoint people who are aligned with them onto a board. Not like the opposition have never done that now is it? Fairwork cough cough.