The Great Global Warming Swindle

[NikkiNoo]

Crow-mo - there have actually be 4 glaciation periods, not one, on earth btw

 

[KUNG FU]

i read somewhere that if all the icecaps melted we would lose something like 8% of total land because we would actually get a whole continent back (antartica) and other countries like Greenland would be inhabitable.

but these things happen

Its not the land loss thats the main problem. Its the fact that unprecedented numbers of people live right next to the coast. Combine that with more extreme weather patterns. There would be unfathomable rates of human displacement.

 

[Crow-mo]

Crow-mo - there have actually be 4 glaciation periods, not one, on earth btw

I didn't know that.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I didn't know that.

It's what you get for having a father who is a geographer whose special interest is weather.

 

[crow87]

Maybe have a read of this article as well Jo - http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.php

"The Scientists are the bad guys" is a title to get your immediate attention Not bad though. A decent site also.

I agree completely. I am at heart an environmentalist.

-Hmm, no-one says you have to be but Im not convinced

I just get offended by the far left trying to pervert rational facts and argument with doomsday hypothesis for their own political gain. Anyone who doesn't believe Al Gore is just doing this because he knew he was politically dead if he didn't is beyond thick. Man Made global warming is so far away from being a fact. humanity is damaged by anyone who wants to examine the alternative arguments being ridiculed.

-Gore is not a latecomer to the topic of glabla warming. He has always been somewhat of a pioneer with respect to this topic, long before "it was cool" to be green, he was fighting for this cause. To dismiss it as a political stunt is a little shallow, would be quite the stunt.
-He's come under a lot of criticism from naysayers, especially when his movie first came out but the fact is that these people dont have a shred of evidence to support their claims, and the evidence he uses is not his, its scientific evidence and its overwhelming.
-Please dont quote South Park while discussing an issue like this

 

[crow87]

ok, fair enough. that's not my point.

the climate is changing, it has been changing for millions of years. we had an ice age once

there have been many things written and presented over here on this subject, and again I'd say anything that causes us to behave 'better' is a good thing.

regarding the ice age thingy, I heard one cambridge professor about a year ago, say that the earth has been changing for millions of years, long before we got here, and that it was the height of arrogance in a lot of ways to think we have anything to do with this.

there are all sorts of things like that out there. things are changing, they have always changed, and our role in it is very speculative at the moment. According to many scientists I have seen or read on the subject, there is next to no real science being used to promote these agendas. Which is ok by me, as I don't think that is any reason to not conduct ourselves responsibly either way.

my personal view on what drives these things? hubris and folly of the human condition, that likes to believe it is in charge of all elements of the world around, and if something is our fault, then in turn it follows that we can fix it. If we don't have much of a say in things, then how can we prevent further change?

You express a view remarkably similar to a lecturer I have/had at uni (or as you like to call it "Imaginary rocket school" ). Anyhoo, he speaks of how we've had changes in climate over the history of the planet, yes true ok check! but the thing is, we've never had it happening this quickly. I'll give you an example:
- Imagine the antarctic ice sheet, every year when it snows, the snow traps tiny bubbles of air underneath it. Then next year it happens again, more air is trapped underneath the blanket of snow. Over the years, this accumulates and so we have a snapshot of the atmosphere if you like, and we can measure how much carbone dioxide is around by sampling at different depths, the deeper we go, the older the sample is. So lets say you make a plot of this, you can see that over the past hundreds of thousands of years, the amount of Carbon dioxide stays relatively constant with small fluctuations as you would expect. However over the past fifteen or so years, the curve turns almost exponential, and at present the graph is moving almost vertically. Thats something that should be alarming to most people interested in living on the planet Earth.

my personal view on what drives these things? hubris and folly of the human condition, that likes to believe it is in charge of all elements of the world around, and if something is our fault, then in turn it follows that we can fix it. If we don't have much of a say in things, then how can we prevent further change?

Again you express a simliar view to my geology lecturer, hmm I didnt know he had an interest in footy I think its a little too simplictic to attribute it solely to human nature though and that we like to believe we are masters of the world. Its through ignorance of the affect of our actions that we have samaged the plaet so badly in the first place, and engineers are the ones to point the fnger of blame at most of the time Im just glad that we now must undertake more environmental subjects in the course Im doing (even if they are boring as bat shirts).

it is generally accepted that the amount of man made greenhouse gases are tiny, and if that's the case (it is) any variation on that is not going to make much difference either way. it's one of the principle reasons why getting countries to sign up to the kyoto treaty and similar is so difficult, global warming is a nice political device, but you wouldn't want to stand behind it in an economic sense.

Just wondering where you pulled this one from? As for an agreement between countries regarding environmental responsibility I think you'll find the reason why its hard to "get countries to sign up to it is so difficult" is the economic effect it would have, and probably on the whole it is not such a good political device, take a look at the current Australian Political landscape over the past 11 years, "Its the economy stupid" springs to mind (The "stupid" is not aimed at you by the way).
Regarding the amount of man made greenhouse gases being tiny, have you ever heard of the enhanced greenhouse effect? Use Wikipedia if you really must.

Sure, the televison program is a welcome alternative view but as with any source should be viewed with caution and ask yourself, where is the source coming from, and what are their aims/driving force? Follow the money trail. I will not name the lecturer I mentioned but those who are really interested in the topic will most probably know him as he is a fairly high profile person (who I actually really like, although do not agree with on all fronts-and his lectures were soo much more interesting than Env Eng IIIA!), he specialises particularly in mining, so much so that he has particular interest and plays a rather "active role" (not secretive in any way) in a certain mining company.

 

[Crow-mo]

"The Scientists are the bad guys" is a title to get your immediate attention Not bad though. A decent site also.



-Hmm, no-one says you have to be but Im not convinced


-Gore is not a latecomer to the topic of glabla warming. He has always been somewhat of a pioneer with respect to this topic, long before "it was cool" to be green, he was fighting for this cause. To dismiss it as a political stunt is a little shallow, would be quite the stunt.
-He's come under a lot of criticism from naysayers, especially when his movie first came out but the fact is that these people dont have a shred of evidence to support their claims, and the evidence he uses is not his, its scientific evidence and its overwhelming.
-Please dont quote South Park while discussing an issue like this

do you think Al Gore invented the internet?

 

[jo172]

do you think Al Gore invented the internet?

Al Gore thinks he did

 

[Corpuscles]

IF it is a swindle then it is worthwhile!!!

Until one of you naysayers can explain how billions of tons of pollution is NOT damaging the planet... then just buckle up and realise most political manouvers are a swindle!

This one is simply protecting or promoting the sustainablity of life... and controlling one of the factors... one we have control of!

EVEN If you are were going to be swamped by a tidal wave one day do you think it is good idea to keep swallowing poision?.... or do you hope that there is someone gunna save ya?

 

[NikkiNoo]

Hey Jo - you might want to wander down to Bonython Hall on Sunday and have a listen to this guy

 

[jo172]

Hey Jo - you might want to wander down to Bonython Hall on Sunday and have a listen to this guy

Formal on Saturday Night, so if i'm conscious by then let alone able to go to lectures i'm considering myself well ahead

 

[NikkiNoo]

Formal on Saturday Night, so if i'm conscious by then let alone able to go to lectures i'm considering myself well ahead

Have fun and if I remember correctly I got home at about 8.30am to finally get some sleep after my formal