The hidden stats that matter

[Obeanie1]

I was just on the AFL site looking up the stats from last week and having a bit of a play.

The stats that come up straight away are not the only stats you get look at, the stats shown have buttons highlighted blue but there are other stats you can unhide shaded grey, so I started unhiding a couple.

Very interesting stuff, the hidden stats that IMO matter the most were;

Effective Disposals %
1%ers
Contested possessions
and Clangers

It made for interesting reading, especially the effective disposals. Players with less than 60% effective disposals make an interesting list of suspects. Glass for instance had few possessions but 100% efficiency and also had 6 1%ers, MaKenzie had similar nuumbers. Nicoski, Bones and Hansen had modest possessions 10-14 but also only had 50% effective disposals and a number of clangers. Big Cox also has a few clangers.

The stat I was really looking for was % of game on the field, couldn't find that one unfortunately.

 

[The Passenger]

The stat I was really looking for was % of game on the field, couldn't find that one unfortunately.

i read this stat somewhere the other week and 90% sure it was when i bought the melbourne newspaper for a train ride - it would've been the herald sun (the broadsheet age is not good for train ride) but for some reason they don't put this stat on their web-site which is really frustrating.

i also don't understand why the AFL wouldn't use it because its a very handy one.

also agree with you, those extra stats are actually quite important - probably more important than the main ones you see.

mackenzie and glass are top 2 in the comp for 1%ers which is basically just consists of spoils and smothers i think (sheppards as well maybe??)

 

[bodazoka]

If you buy the West on a Monday (I think it is) It has a really good stats breakdown on every player in every game, it includes things like game time %, set shot misses (complete misses) at goal, critical errors (unforced errors) and errors under pressure ect.. It helps to highlight a little more then overall effectivness of a player.

I hardly ever look at posession stats anymore... If a bloke gets 30 touches it doesnt mean as much to me now as it used to. Unless you watch the game and see how effective they were or have those very detailed stats you dont know if he played well or not.

 

[The Passenger]

does anyone know why the papers don't put some of these stats on their web-sites?? very annoying.

 

[bigburger]

does anyone know why the papers don't put some of these stats on their web-sites?? very annoying.

Probably so people still buy their papers.

 

[worsfold]

Have a look here for resourses
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=561151

 

[Obeanie1]

Just a couple of interesting numbers;

Disposal Efficiency over the past two weeks Hawks and then Freo


A Hunter 44% and 40%
Staker 40% and 50%
Lynch 80% and 61%
Cox 80% and 58%
Nicoski 94% and 50%
Kerr 80% and 50%
Bones 60% and 58%

and for all the Rosa and Pridis fans

Pridis 77% 2 clangers 69% and 1 clanger
Rosa 71% 3 clangers 76% and 5 clangers

I wonder who's form needs the most improvement?

 

[bodazoka]

Yes Ob.. but then the Priddis and Rosa bashers go into rants about how their clanger count doesnt reflect passing to team mates under pressure and that most of their stats are sideways kicks in the backline to our team mates.

Hence to absolutely prove your point without a doubt you will need to produce the "posessions forward of centre" stats and the "forced clanger stats" for both players.

 

[silver_and_sand]

Over the past two games, Brent Staker had a total of 15 possessions and 5 clangers. So for every 3 possessions he would commit a clanger. Compare that Priddis who raked up 58 possessions and 3 clangers, or 1 clanger for every 19 possessions.

 

[Masten_bator]

If you go to the Eagles website and go to the players and click on their stats it has a button (GT) that shows game time percentage.

 

[The Passenger]

under the general play tab i only have the standard stat of tackles, and then 3 optional stats of 1%, Bounces, and dream team points. i don't have the fourth option for game time that you have on that pic... anyone else the same or have people got the game time stat??

EDIT: i've got it - you have to go into the players individual stats from their player pages. it's stupid they it doesn't show on the each individual game as well.

 

[Eagle87]

Just a couple of interesting numbers;

Disposal Efficiency over the past two weeks Hawks and then Freo


A Hunter 44% and 40%
Staker 40% and 50%
Lynch 80% and 61%
Cox 80% and 58%
Nicoski 94% and 50%
Kerr 80% and 50%
Bones 60% and 58%

and for all the Rosa and Pridis fans

Pridis 77% 2 clangers 69% and 1 clanger
Rosa 71% 3 clangers 76% and 5 clangers

I wonder who's form needs the most improvement?

What those stats show is that everyone was down in DE v the Dockers. I think anyone who watched the game would agree.

On the DE stat itself, its always worth remembering that a dinky 2m handball to a stationary teammate who is under pressure within a nano-second is an efficient disposal. Provided the ball is passed to said teammate and received by that teammate its all good. Which of course often misses the point.

Look at Nico v Hawthorn. If you have a guy who gets the ball, runs 10 to 20m, kicks it 50m and does so with 94% efficiency and does so with speed, thats a weapon. But if he misses the target then his disposal efficiency drops away but at least the ball is 70m or so downfield.

Compare that with our slower, less attacking players who often get there efficiency up using a large number of 2m sideways handballs....

By the way, the Game Time percentage stats ARE ON AFL.com. They sit under "General Play" from memory but you have to select the stat and (from memory) its a poorly placed button that doesnt show up very clearly. Its easier to access through the individual player stats.

 

[Eagle87]

Yes Ob.. but then the Priddis and Rosa bashers go into rants about how their clanger count doesnt reflect passing to team mates under pressure and that most of their stats are sideways kicks in the backline to our team mates.

Hence to absolutely prove your point without a doubt you will need to produce the "posessions forward of centre" stats and the "forced clanger stats" for both players.

One wonders at times whether you are being disingenuous or you actually just dont get it

What we need is a stat that measures things like creativity, agression (i.e. taking the game on and trying to make something happen) or something to that effect.

In all sports those who try and create are more prone to error. I mean at Man Utd, Ronaldo turns the ball over more than Fletcher - what does that mean about their relative merits?

Obviously forwards have a bigger problem with efficiency, they get less possessions and they are trying to score with those possessions or are often kicking deep to pack situations - a missed shot at goal or a kick to a pack (thats not marked by your teammate) is an inefficient disposal. Much easier to have higher DE if you are "knocking the ball sideways" everytime - using a soccer term.

You do follow all this dont you? I can probably draw pictures if its a little over your head?

 

[Double the Fist]

People are often quick to critisise Priddis when he just bombs the ball because he has no alternative. Often he gets the ball in a contest, because thats what hes good at, and then throws it on the boot. Me, well..., I dont mind that because at least it gets it down closer to the goals.
No one minds Nicko booting it long, but Priddis gets nothing but 'tsk tsk' when he does it.
BTW, Glass and Emac, doing great

 

[Marlin01]

I once heard someone talk about metres gained i.e. run and then kick or handleball added together. I can't remember who it was or where they got the stat from, but I thought it was quite a good one. If you then added the efficiency aspect to the metres gained, it would be worth having a look at IMO.

Does anyone know if that stat exists and where it is located?

If I was the coach, I'd be pushing to have all my players GPS'ed. That would provide you with unequivocal evidence of whose effort dropped in the second half against Fremantle, for example.

 

[Eagle87]

People are often quick to critisise Priddis when he just bombs the ball because he has no alternative. Often he gets the ball in a contest, because thats what hes good at, and then throws it on the boot. Me, well..., I dont mind that because at least it gets it down closer to the goals.
No one minds Nicko booting it long, but Priddis gets nothing but 'tsk tsk' when he does it.
BTW, Glass and Emac, doing great

While I decline to enter into a Priddis discussion, he gets 70%+ of his possessions UNcontested. He had 20 UNcontested possessions on the weekend. Of course a Priddis "bomb" is an oxymoron ... 35 metres isnt a bomb.

 

[Eagle87]

I once heard someone talk about metres gained i.e. run and then kick or handleball added together. I can't remember who it was or where they got the stat from, but I thought it was quite a good one. If you then added the efficiency aspect to the metres gained, it would be worth having a look at IMO.

Does anyone know if that stat exists and where it is located?

If I was the coach, I'd be pushing to have all my players GPS'ed. That would provide you with unequivocal evidence of whose effort dropped in the second half against Fremantle, for example.

There are a range of stats that clubs keep (or can purchase) that we dont get to see - unless we pay subscriptions.

Certainly clubs do know the details of every possession of every player. So they track when, say, a Nico gets the ball, how far he runs and carries and what happened with the disposal. So they would know if he had, say, 7 x 70 metre possesions in a game and what happened at the end of those.

On the GPS, I believe they are restricted under the terms of a deal between the clubs, the AFL & the Players Association. You reckon you needed GPS to see who fell away after half time on the weekend?

 

[no1bankteller]

While I decline to enter into a Priddis discussion, he gets 70%+ of his possessions UNcontested. He had 20 UNcontested possessions on the weekend. Of course a Priddis "bomb" is an oxymoron ... 35 metres isnt a bomb.

Not a bad job of not entering into a discussion...

 

[Eagle87]

Not a bad job of not entering into a discussion...

I thought so

Of course no-one refutes the point.

 

[Marlin01]

You reckon you needed GPS to see who fell away after half time on the weekend?

I reckon you could guess, but is that satisfactory? I don't think so.

Also, how many kms does our team have to cover in order to play the midfield zone for 4 quarters? Is the team we are fielding capable of running the km's required to enforce the midfield zone for 4 quarters? If I were a coach, these are the questions I'd like answered precisely, not guessed at.

 

[no1bankteller]

Also I would have thought that the GPS information could be used, more so, to manage and monitor players and ensure that they are capable of performing at their optimal levels.

I would love to see players wearing GPS/Heart rate monitors (the way cyclist do in Professional Cyling races such as Tour De France etc) as it would provide us with a more scientific method of ensuring that the players are operating at their peak and would allow us to schedule "interchanges" to aid their performance.

 

[Eagle87]

I reckon you could guess, but is that satisfactory? I don't think so.

Also, how many kms does our team have to cover in order to play the midfield zone for 4 quarters? Is the team we are fielding capable of running the km's required to enforce the midfield zone for 4 quarters? If I were a coach, these are the questions I'd like answered precisely, not guessed at.

While I understand your point, the question is how much intrusion into the game by sports scientists is too much?

Its my understanding that there is a limit, each week, on the number of players with GPS monitors.

There is no doubt that the zone requires a large amount of work. There is similarly no doubt that we currently field one of the least flexible sides in the AFL with 4 blokes doing a massive amount of the centre square work, 6 blokes playing nowhere but the backline and 5 blokes playing nowhere but the forward line.....

By the way, I am absolutely sure that our coaches are not short on information. We have every device or system that the rules allow.

 

[shoe]

Just a couple of interesting numbers;

Disposal Efficiency over the past two weeks Hawks and then Freo


A Hunter 44% and 40%
Staker 40% and 50%
Lynch 80% and 61%
Cox 80% and 58%
Nicoski 94% and 50%
Kerr 80% and 50%
Bones 60% and 58%

and for all the Rosa and Pridis fans

Pridis 77% 2 clangers 69% and 1 clanger
Rosa 71% 3 clangers 76% and 5 clangers

I wonder who's form needs the most improvement?

And if you consider that Staker only had about 10 disposals total from those 2 games
I'm sad for him. Who was the genius who offered him a 2 year contract instead of 1 year?

Emac and Glassy are still #1 and #1 in 1%ers. I posted a thread about it after Round 2, it's now after round 6 and they are still leading the comp. Absolutely outstanding.

And Coxy is now clearly leading the comp in Clangers. That's a worry.

 

[shoe]

Also, don't forget the clanger stat includes frees against.

 

[shoe]

While I understand your point, the question is how much intrusion into the game by sports scientists is too much?

If the information garnered can help or further the team or the coaching tactics in any way, it's worth it.

How is a GPS device an 'intrusion into the game'?