Universal Love The Hird Cleanout

[Kong]

A while ago I went and had a look at what the Essendon board was like during those years to see how opinions were of some people. There's some real lol threads/opinions floating around.

Lots of "delist Jobe" posts, "Hird should retire" (from 2000-2007) threads, "Winderlich will win a Brownlow" etc.

To be fair though, in I think maybe my first ever post on here, I said that Monfries was better than Marc Murphy. I remember crawling back into my shell when everyone lulzcoptered all over me.

 

[TheDon35]

Yep, the cleanout is pretty much complete. Still NLM and one or two others that are lurking around however on a whole, the list looks to be in a position for real development.

Goddard strengthens us next year but little else from the draft fills me with much expectation as far as the 2013 season goes. Improvement for next year will primarily come from:

• Having a full deck of cards. Or at least half a deck each week.
• Year on year improvement / development of the existing group.
• Any coaching or tactical master strokes the coaches employ - note, they don't seem to be a coaching master stroke type of group. More a group that focusses on getting the players to play the way they want them to and the development comes. Thompson must get credit for this through his work with Geelong.

Whilst Goddard will make a difference, unless we get considerable improvement from several key young players, we won't be good enough.

 

[BrunoV]

Yep, the cleanout is pretty much complete. Still NLM and one or two others that are lurking around however on a whole, the list looks to be in a position for real development.

Goddard strengthens us next year but little else from the draft fills me with much expectation as far as the 2013 season goes. Improvement for next year will primarily come from:

• Having a full deck of cards. Or at least half a deck each week.
• Year on year improvement / development of the existing group.
• Any coaching or tactical master strokes the coaches employ - note, they don't seem to be a coaching master stroke type of group. More a group that focusses on getting the players to play the way they want them to and the development comes. Thompson must get credit for this through his work with Geelong.

Whilst Goddard will make a difference, unless we get considerable improvement from several key young players, we won't be good enough.

Yep and not one thing has to do with delistings.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Yep and not one thing has to do with delistings.

You don't think the moving on of mediocre senior players who aren't best 22 has nothing to do with where we are at right now.

All you need to look at is how many of our delistees have been drafted by other clubs.... only Sam Lonergan and that is on the rookie list. Prismall, Dyson, Slattery, Reimers are no longer AFL footballers.

Don't see anyone crying about the loss of Monfries either.

Hird has made a nice clean cut of the list and has the football team to take us to the next flag. 2013 is going to be a big year in the red and black.

...... and I forgot Atkinson too.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

...... and I forgot Atkinson too.

who?

 

[BrunoV]

For a start where exactly are we right now?

You're saying that we now have this side which ought to push to the summit (which I agree with) but you're not saying how sacking Hank Slattery makes us a better side. The reality is that none of the players listed have been playing that much for all sorts of reasons. We've gotten a lot of games into young players in the last 4 years because these guys haven't been playing much so it is not like the development of young players has been stifled.

TheDon has articulated all of the actual reasons the side should kick on in 2013. None of them have to do with moving on depth players.

You're just confusing your pleasure at the sacking of players you don't like with immediate and actual progress. I can say this because you, like me and almost every other person here, have absolutely no idea what is going to happen with our new recruits but you'll start threads congratulating Hird for moving on players, if anything, he held on to for too long (which is at least Prismall, McVeigh, Welsh and arguably Steinberg who was recontracted and then demoted).

 

[DapperDon]

who?

He did give us the greatest bit of meltdown commentary from Quarters in 09.

"HE'S RUN HIS FULL MEASURE UMPIRE!!!!!"

As Atkinson slots through the goal that ended Hawks season.

 

[Kong]

who?

"Gee, he's going to be a good player, isn't he?!" - Craig Hutchison

 

[Donakebab]

Don't see anyone crying about the loss of Monfries either.

I'm guessing this is because most see this as the cost of acquiring Goddard. If he was at the club next year Gus would still be in our first 22, but losing a top 10-15 player to get a top 5 player is definitely worth it.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I'm guessing this is because most see this as the cost of acquiring Goddard. If he was at the club next year Gus would still be in our first 22, but losing a top 10-15 player to get a top 5 player is definitely worth it.

Not sure Gus and Goddard are at all related in the one bit..... you know free agency and all?

Gus left as he knew his days were numbered at EFC. Smart career move on his part. He'll eek out another 4 years at Port. He is no way a top 10-15 player and would have struggled to make the 22 next year.

Hurley, Joey D, Crameri, Ryder + fast smalls and guys that can play midfield and kick well.

 

[Donakebab]

Not sure Gus and Goddard are at all related in the one bit..... you know free agency and all?

Gus left as he knew his days were numbered at EFC. Smart career move on his part. He'll eek out another 4 years at Port. He is no way a top 10-15 player and would have struggled to make the 22 next year.

Hurley, Joey D, Crameri, Ryder + fast smalls and guys that can play midfield and kick well.

They are completely related. There's this thing called the salary cap, with us loading up on Goddard it meant not enough to keep Gus.

 

[Eleven 38]

The only player that was top 30 that we don't have next year is Monfries, so while we may not have improved our list instantly, we have definitely increased our scope to improve a lot by removing the older depth players...

Also I highly doubt us not being able to offer Monfries more money is the reason he left, theres about 30players i would have offered more money before Gus to keep not just Goddard... And I would hope the club wouldn't have even given him an increase in salary as he really hasn't improved in 4years

 

[Phone]

They are completely related. There's this thing called the salary cap, with us loading up on Goddard it meant not enough to keep Gus.

and also the small matter of a 4 year contract

 

[Donakebab]

and also the small matter of a 4 year contract

Didn't we offer him 2 on less cash? Without Goddard coming on board they might have offered more on a 3 year deal which may have been enough for him to stay.

Definitely feel Monfries is a casualty of getting Goddard.

 

[Beerfish]

He did give us the greatest bit of meltdown commentary from Quarters in 09.

"HE'S RUN HIS FULL MEASURE UMPIRE!!!!!"

As Atkinson slots through the goal that ended Hawks season.

Thank god we don't have to listen to that tool barracking from the commentary box anymore with his best mate MC Wallsy. I wish there was vision from the Dunstall incident. Would be absolutely hilarious.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

They are completely related. There's this thing called the salary cap, with us loading up on Goddard it meant not enough to keep Gus.

If he was a 10-15 player than I'm sure we would have found the room and moved on more of the 15-25 players. You don't move on players in the 10-15 range that are in the prime of their career and have a good 5 years left.

My take on it is he was offered a 2 year deal at a rate which is not equivalent to his age, games and experience. He was being asked to do an NLM and be a hard body and transition the kids over the next few years and possibly move aside with a limited role.

Don't see how we can have salary cap issues with Hille, Fletcher, Winderlich, NLM gone in 2 years. Hooker almost traded. McVeigh, Prismal, Dyson, Slattery all gone.

If we wanted to fit Monfries in we would have.... just like we were going to redraft Prismall ; )

 

[yaco55]

It is too easy for most to forget this point.

The other thing I don't really understand is how getting rid of these players strengthens the list by default. Given that 99.9% of posters have never seen the new recruits (other than Goddard play) there is a lot of water to flow under the bridge before the list is stronger because of the replacement of the guys that were delisted this year.

I suggest that the Top end of the list up to player 28/30 will be stronger, assuming that the players improve as expected.

The depth beneath players 28/30 will be reduced in the short time. As long as we have an average run of injuries, everything should be fine.

 

[yaco55]

KS

I suggest that we, like most clubs have close to a full salary cap.

Remember that only one or two clubs, were given permission by the AFL to draft Tippett in the PSD Draft

 

[Phone]

Didn't we offer him 2 on less cash? Without Goddard coming on board they might have offered more on a 3 year deal which may have been enough for him to stay.

there's just no way we could/would/should have offered monfries a 3 year contract. no way. no matter what else happened that pre-season (well maybe if every other player died)

 

[Pevers-Legend]

KS

I suggest that we, like most clubs have close to a full salary cap.

Remember that only one or two clubs, were given permission by the AFL to draft Tippett in the PSD Draft

Tippett asking for 700-800k a year. Salary cap is what 8 mill or 9.

No one could not him on unless they were planning to pay the minimum cap space. Pointless argument as only the swans could afford how due to the extra space they are afforded.

 

[rines]

I wouldn't relate Monfries directly to Goddard. There was no way we could offer Gus a four year deal (I think Port is perhaps the ONLY club that would be that crazy/stupid/gutsy) and we couldn't offer him opportunities through the middle/HFF with so many of our younger guys coming through in that role. Even if Goddard doesn't come, I don't think we up our offer to Gus that much, he was a 'bit' player at best in Hird's line up and TBH never really showed more than being a 10-15 range player. Handy player who showed glimpses of brilliance (and I wish all the best with his new club) but no way EFC could sacrifice their whole list to keep him.

I think the list is moving forward, I don't know if I would call it a 'clean out' rather than an overdue 'honest assessment' of the playing capabilities of those on the list. I think Hird wanted a chance to see if there was any room for improvement in those older players or if that was their peak. Upon establishing their base line he then could accurately determine that those players were not going to assist in bringing our next flag. The young guys coming in may not bring a flag either but there is the POTENTIAL that they could.. I believe that is the difference... We knew for certain that we didn't have a 40 guy squad to bring home the flag, so we churned a few over and now we hope we do..

Lonergan was the only one that I think could have been retained for back up and support purposes but in the end, the modern game probably needs more speed and disposal efficiency than Sam could ever get to.

 

[Slattery_20]

wasn't Nash going to win a Brownlow at one point?

Good looking kick, not really a good kick. And soft as anything.

 

[daffo]

Cleanout? That's pretty much the normal amount of list changes.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Lots of "delist Jobe" posts, "Hird should retire" (from 2000-2007) threads, "Winderlich will win a Brownlow" etc.

To be fair though, in I think maybe my first ever post on here, I said that Monfries was better than Marc Murphy. I remember crawling back into my shell when everyone lulzcoptered all over me.

Delusional Pearlers thread.

 

[ant555]

Cleanout? That's pretty much the normal amount of list changes.

Agree more like a continual clean out of an ordinary list that started with Knights and has nearly reached it course and most clubs are turning over 5 or players a year anyway.