The Jamarra Thread

[Angak]

He will be referring to Jack Martin and Chad Wingard.

Big losses those two

That’s not the point and never was. It’s not about whether those players were stars. It’s that they knocked us back because of how our club was perceived. One day there will be a top Indigenous talent worth targeting, and if that perception still exists, we could miss out again. That matters. The club has worked hard to shift it for a reason. Ignoring the issue because past players didn’t become stars completely misses the bigger picture.

 

[Morris Major]

He will be referring to Jack Martin and Chad Wingard.

Big losses those two

What correlation does their playing ability have on the validity of their concerns?

 

[my plums]

I think it's as simple as Bevo not wanting to answer the same questions over and over about JUH.

 

[Doggy]

What correlation does their playing ability have on the validity of their concerns?

Carlton and Hawthorn had a few indigenous players they specifically wanted to play with.

That doesn't mean that the dogs don't have a decent program at all (which was bolstered by the work of Brett Goodes) These are two examples only and is far too small a sample.

For all you know they could have also said that instead of just saying they wanted to play for a big club. Noone knows otherwise.

 

[Angak]

Carlton and Hawthorn had a few indigenous players they specifically wanted to play with.

That doesn't mean that the dogs don't have a decent program at all (which was bolstered by the work of Brett Goodes) These are two examples only and is far too small a sample.

For all you know they could have also said that instead of just saying they wanted to play for a big club. Noone knows otherwise.

First they weren’t good enough to matter. Now suddenly we don’t even know why they knocked us back and it could have been anything. Which is it? You can’t dismiss the players as irrelevant, then turn around and say the reasons they rejected us are unknowable. That’s just bending the argument to suit whatever point you want to make in the moment. It’s silly.

 

[Doggy]

First they weren’t good enough to matter. Now suddenly we don’t even know why they knocked us back and it could have been anything. Which is it? You can’t dismiss the players as irrelevant, then turn around and say the reasons they rejected us are unknowable. That’s just bending the argument to suit whatever point you want to make in the moment. It’s silly.

What the heck does one have to do with the other? Don't be a nuffie.

They weren't a big deal to miss out on at all and you know it. That is a separate argument they aren't roped in together at all.

 

[Morris Major]

What the heck does one have to do with the other? Don't be a nuffie.

They weren't a big deal to miss out on at all and you know it. That is a separate argument they aren't roped in together at all.

Maybe we have an excellent indigenous program, maybe not, maybe it's somewhere in between. Who bloody knows.

The indigenous players we missed out on have nothing to do with it, and yet you're the one who brought it up in the first place?

 

[Doggy]

Maybe we have an excellent indigenous program, maybe not, maybe it's somewhere in between. Who bloody knows.

The indigenous players we missed out on have nothing to do with it, and yet you're the one who brought it up in the first place?

Those particular players... and there are only 2 ffs ... went to opposition teams nominating specific players they wanted to play with.

At no point did they say that the dogs don't have a decent indigenous program. You're guessing just like the vibe argument with Jamarra.

No evidence to the contrary, again, the same with Jamarra making it back.

 

[Golden_6]

Those particular players... and there are only 2 ffs ... went to opposition teams nominating specific players they wanted to play with.

At no point did they say that the dogs don't have a decent indigenous program. You're guessing just like the vibe argument with Jamarra.

No evidence to the contrary, again, the same with Jamarra making it back.

From memory, Impey also knocked us back for similar reasons.

Whether or not it's been fixed in recent years is debatable but it was certainly an issue a number of years ago that the club has tried to address.

 

[Angak]

From memory, Impey also knocked us back for similar reasons.

Whether or not it's been fixed in recent years is debatable but it was certainly an issue a number of years ago that the club has tried to address.

I think it’s more perception than reality now. The club has changed a lot over the past decade, but the fact that the perception still lingers is a concern — because players make decisions based on perception, not just reality.

That said, I think Arty is going to be a 100 plus gamer for us. He was just building his body up to deal with the rigours of AFL before the hamstring. I thought his first quarter against the Bombers was the best I’ve seen him play for us. We’ll change that perception... it’ll just take a bit of time.

 

[immortalmike]

That’s fine. I’m sharing my opinion, and you’re entitled to yours. I just would have preferred a coherent argument about why you think I’m wrong, rather than the old “I’d rather back the kid in” vibes. Noble sentiment, sure, but not exactly a convincing argument.

Your opinion is not based on anything known though.
So I'm unsure of how to respond.

You mention him needing to change his environment but don't mention why. I suspect because you (and I) have no idea of what his issues were or are.

You also mentioned that he is still seemingly hanging around with some of the same people he was previously without knowing who were part of the problem. Maybe he excicised the one's that were and kept the one's that were part of his support.

You are also reading lots into what is a simple statement from Bevo that we need to focus on the rest of the team whilst Marra gets himself right. I'd expect a similar response if he were asked questions every presser about Cody.

All this adds up to you speculating a bunch about things you or I have no clue about with very little if any evidence either way.

So as a supporter I'm backing the kid in until I get some solid evidence that I shouldn't.

 

[TiAn_]

Around the time we pursued Wingard, which was 6 years ago now, the club was very public about improving its approach to recruiting and supporting indigenous players and their perception of the club. It was spoken about by Peter Gordon, amongst others:

“Gordon told members that although he did not know what drove Wingard’s decision it was logical to suspect that the absence of Indigenous players on the Bulldogs list potentially put them ‘‘behind the eight ball’’ in securing Wingard.”

It’s evident we’ve done a lot of work in the space since that time. But it was something the club had determined was an area for improvement, that’s not really debatable.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Around the time we pursued Wingard, which was 6 years ago now, the club was very public about improving its approach to recruiting and supporting indigenous players and their perception of the club. It was spoken about by Peter Gordon, amongst others:

“Gordon told members that although he did not know what drove Wingard’s decision it was logical to suspect that the absence of Indigenous players on the Bulldogs list potentially put them ‘‘behind the eight ball’’ in securing Wingard.”

It’s evident we’ve done a lot of work in the space since that time. But it was something the club had determined was an area for improvement, that’s not really debatable.

Coming from Chad himself on why he didn’t join the club

 

[Angak]

Your opinion is not based on anything known though.
So I'm unsure of how to respond.

You mention him needing to change his environment but don't mention why. I suspect because you (and I) have no idea of what his issues were or are.

You also mentioned that he is still seemingly hanging around with some of the same people he was previously without knowing who were part of the problem. Maybe he excicised the one's that were and kept the one's that were part of his support.

You are also reading lots into what is a simple statement from Bevo that we need to focus on the rest of the team whilst Marra gets himself right. I'd expect a similar response if he were asked questions every presser about Cody.

All this adds up to you speculating a bunch about things you or I have no clue about with very little if any evidence either way.

So as a supporter I'm backing the kid in until I get some solid evidence that I shouldn't.

You keep saying there is no evidence and that it is all speculation, but that is simply not true. There has been credible reporting throughout the year that Victorian clubs have cooled on Marra, despite his talent. One report even stated, “I would be surprised if he is with another Victorian club. There is a lot to play out there,” which clearly points to underlying concerns.

Clubs do not just walk away from a number one pick with his potential for no reason. There is clearly a belief that his environment and the influences around him have played a role in his struggles. That is not baseless speculation. It is a fair conclusion based on what has been consistently reported.

If you want to back the kid in, that is fine. But just because this view is not wrapped in hope does not mean it is not valid. A lot of people prefer the version of events that makes them feel good. That is natural. But ignoring uncomfortable details does not make them disappear.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

He will be referring to Jack Martin and Chad Wingard.

Big losses those two

Jarman Impey? Was offered when his great friend Trengove came to us but knocked us back, iirc.

 

[MaxiBont]

You keep saying there is no evidence and that it is all speculation, but that is simply not true. There has been credible reporting throughout the year that Victorian clubs have cooled on Marra, despite his talent. One report even stated, “I would be surprised if he is with another Victorian club. There is a lot to play out there,” which clearly points to underlying concerns.

Clubs do not just walk away from a number one pick with his potential for no reason. There is clearly a belief that his environment and the influences around him have played a role in his struggles. That is not baseless speculation. It is a fair conclusion based on what has been consistently reported.

If you want to back the kid in, that is fine. But just because this view is not wrapped in hope does not mean it is not valid. A lot of people prefer the version of events that makes them feel good. That is natural. But ignoring uncomfortable details does not make them disappear.

This reporting was all months before he came back to training.

A lot has already played out and no one really knows (on here, I assume) what the next steps are at this point.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Read he was at training today, anyone confirm? That’s a big positive considering his recent loss.

 

[immortalmike]

You keep saying there is no evidence and that it is all speculation, but that is simply not true. There has been credible reporting throughout the year that Victorian clubs have cooled on Marra, despite his talent. One report even stated, “I would be surprised if he is with another Victorian club. There is a lot to play out there,” which clearly points to underlying concerns.

Clubs do not just walk away from a number one pick with his potential for no reason. There is clearly a belief that his environment and the influences around him have played a role in his struggles. That is not baseless speculation. It is a fair conclusion based on what has been consistently reported.

If you want to back the kid in, that is fine. But just because this view is not wrapped in hope does not mean it is not valid. A lot of people prefer the version of events that makes them feel good. That is natural. But ignoring uncomfortable details does not make them disappear.

No there's been reports that clubs including interstate clubs have cooled on him. Not just Victorian. The credibility of such reporting is also up for debate.

The rest is baseless speculation again. They could have cooled for several reasons, his manager may have indicated he doesn't want to move, they're worried about training standards, worried that he'll fall over again, or any number of different reasons.

You've again chosen to take ambiguous information and decided it reinforces your preconceived opinion.

That’s fine. But don't pretend it is any more objective or informed than anyone else. It's vibes and nothing more.

 

[Cudi]

Read he was at training today, anyone confirm? That’s a big positive considering his recent loss.

Woof said he has trained strongly today

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Hopefully the club nips in the bud Kane and Caros latest murmurings and makes Jamarra publicly take a drug test.

Better still they could do it as a live cross on 7's evening news.

Then later on they could do a lotto like interruption to whatever realty dreck they have on and announce the results.

Imagine the ratings, not to mention the ah...exposure!

 

[Angak]

No there's been reports that clubs including interstate clubs have cooled on him. Not just Victorian. The credibility of such reporting is also up for debate.

The rest is baseless speculation again. They could have cooled for several reasons, his manager may have indicated he doesn't want to move, they're worried about training standards, worried that he'll fall over again, or any number of different reasons.

You've again chosen to take ambiguous information and decided it reinforces your preconceived opinion.

That’s fine. But don't pretend it is any more objective or informed than anyone else. It's vibes and nothing more.

So your primary argument this whole time is “let’s back the kid in” while at the same time accusing me of basing my view on vibes. You do realise you’ve completely contradicted yourself in the same breath? Obviously that contradiction isn’t lost on you... you must be doing it on purpose. No one’s that unaware.

And since you’re questioning the basis of what I’m saying, here’s a direct quote from Tom Morris:

“Geelong aren’t interested anymore,” he said. “They’ve left the door ajar publicly, but privately they’re not interested. Neither’s Melbourne, and I don’t think the Hawks are either. So if he’s going to continue his career elsewhere, it’s going to be interstate.”

Now whether you like Tom Morris or not (and for the record, I think he’s a grub), that’s beside the point...he’s still one of the most accurate journos in the game. The reporting is real, and you can read it for yourself:

Dogs still seek Jamarra ‘lightbulb moment’ amid fresh concerns in ‘almost unprecedented’ AFL scene

‘They’re despairing’: $800k twist in Jamarra saga as Dogs’ fears revealed in ‘unprecedented’ scene

www.foxsports.com.au

So yes, let’s back the kid in... and I’m the one running on vibes?

 

[Morris Major]

Hopefully the club nips in the bud Kane and Caros latest murmurings and makes Jamarra publicly take a drug test.

Better still they could do it as a live cross on 7's evening news.

Then later on they could do a lotto like interruption to whatever realty dreck they have on and announce the results.

Imagine the ratings, not to mention the ah...exposure!

Throw in a cross-promotion with 1% Club and ch7 are all in I reckon

 

[immortalmike]

So your primary argument this whole time is “let’s back the kid in” while at the same time accusing me of basing my view on vibes. You do realise you’ve completely contradicted yourself in the same breath? Obviously that contradiction isn’t lost on you... you must be doing it on purpose. No one’s that unaware.

And since you’re questioning the basis of what I’m saying, here’s a direct quote from Tom Morris:

“Geelong aren’t interested anymore,” he said. “They’ve left the door ajar publicly, but privately they’re not interested. Neither’s Melbourne, and I don’t think the Hawks are either. So if he’s going to continue his career elsewhere, it’s going to be interstate.”

Now whether you like Tom Morris or not (and for the record, I think he’s a grub), that’s beside the point...he’s still one of the most accurate journos in the game. The reporting is real, and you can read it for yourself:

Dogs still seek Jamarra ‘lightbulb moment’ amid fresh concerns in ‘almost unprecedented’ AFL scene

‘They’re despairing’: $800k twist in Jamarra saga as Dogs’ fears revealed in ‘unprecedented’ scene

www.foxsports.com.au

So yes, let’s back the kid in... and I’m the one running on vibes?

My contention is and always has been that we're both basing our arguments on having no evidence or idea of what's happening. Yes.

Thus I'll back the kid in rather than make up some BS about him needing a new environment or friends or reading too much into a quote from a coach or him attending a funeral. Or any such nonsense jumping at shadows.

I'm also well aware of that article. From April. Before he returned to the club....so super relevant.

 

[Angak]

My contention is and always has been that we're both basing our arguments on having no evidence or idea of what's happening. Yes.

Thus I'll back the kid in rather than make up some BS about him needing a new environment or friends or reading too much into a quote from a coach or him attending a funeral. Or any such nonsense jumping at shadows.

I'm also well aware of that article. From April. Before he returned to the club....so super relevant.

I’ve given you actual reporting from a journalist stating that Victorian clubs have cooled their interest in Jamarra.

You then turn around and say “let’s back the kid in” and somehow claim I’m the one basing my view on vibes?

Come on. That’s hilariously silly. I think even you realise that now.

 

[immortalmike]

I’ve given you actual reporting from a journalist stating that Victorian clubs have cooled their interest in Jamarra.

You then turn around and say “let’s back the kid in” and somehow claim I’m the one basing my view on vibes?

Come on. That’s hilariously silly. I think even you realise that now.

Yes. Reporting from before he completed rehab and came back to the club and hasn't missed a training session and owned up to his previous behaviour.

In case you're somehow misunderstanding me the reasons above are why I'm backing the kid in.

Are you still stuck in April? Have you not seen any of the above? Or are you being deliberately obtuse? I'm unsure as to why. We have different opinions on the same situation and are both basing it on having no ****ing idea.