Tertiary and Continuing The Law Thread

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Catgirl said:
Kind of have me reconsidering wasting a spot on Melbourne. Monash appears to be the uni of choice from all accounts. I just like the idea of having my Honours by the time I've finished the degree, and I did read somewhere that Melb Degree was also internationally recognised.
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The Melbourne and Monash law degrees are exactly the same - they both enable you to practice law, teach you exactly the same skillset. The only differences are that you know you are going to be a lawyer if you go for the Monash option, and you know you will get a CSP place at Monash. There is literally no advantage to going to Melbourne Uni.

You can go for honours at Monash too - https://www.monash.edu/law/current-students/honours. I took up the same option when doing my degree, ended up with honours IIB.

Don't fall for the 'internationally recognised' stuff, Melbourne Uni's marketing is very dishonest.
 
Matt Stevic said:
The Melbourne and Monash law degrees are exactly the same - they both enable you to practice law, teach you exactly the same skillset. The only differences are that you know you are going to be a lawyer if you go for the Monash option, and you know you will get a CSP place at Monash. There is literally no advantage to going to Melbourne Uni.

You can go for honours at Monash too - https://www.monash.edu/law/current-students/honours. I took up the same option when doing my degree, ended up with honours IIB.

Don't fall for the 'internationally recognised' stuff, Melbourne Uni's marketing is very dishonest.
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Also, why would it matter if a law degree is internationally recognised? Doesn't an Australian law degree teach you about Australian law? Maybe some lawyers in the thread could give more insight into this.
 
Mningasimisonda said:
Also, why would it matter if a law degree is internationally recognised? Doesn't an Australian law degree teach you about Australian law? Maybe some lawyers in the thread could give more insight into this.
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The little I've bothered to learn of the Melbourne system is that it essentially saves a bridging course or something similar when wanting to practice in a different jurisdiction. How limited the number of different jurisdictions is I cannot say though.

Realistically, there are lawyers from every university who practice OS.

Do study abroad and aim for intern/clerkship OS, finance permitting obv., while studying to see how you like it if you think you might want to practice elsewhere at some point.
 

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Mningasimisonda said:
Also, why would it matter if a law degree is internationally recognised? Doesn't an Australian law degree teach you about Australian law? Maybe some lawyers in the thread could give more insight into this.
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You do the vast majority of your learning on the job. Relevant units might smooth the initial transition at best.

I know quite a few people who have done some study and/or work overseas. It works the other way too; numerous Kiwi lawyers have come over lately.

Seeing the International Criminal Court on a CV impressed me the first few times; now it's almost a cliche.
 
Troubadour said:
Rightio - I took the summer off, starting my final subject (elective) in Feb.

How did the 2016 grads go? PLT? Plans? Anyone else finishing this year?

Maybe Chief can return?
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Chief quit his law degree in favour of a high paying job cold calling the elderly to harangue them into switching energy providers.
 
A batch of graduates went through my work as seasonal clerks recently, with a few to be offered positions based on their performance.

One, upon meeting a senior member of the office (a silk) said "I'm going to have your job one day."

The intrepid graduate also tried to arrange a lunch with an even more senior practitioner upon his first meeting with them.

He may have been somewhat surprised to not be offered a position.

Don't be like that guy.
 
Donners said:
A batch of graduates went through my work as seasonal clerks recently, with a few to be offered positions based on their performance.

One, upon meeting a senior member of the office (a silk) said "I'm going to have your job one day."

The intrepid graduate also tried to arrange a lunch with an even more senior practitioner upon his first meeting with them.

He may have been somewhat surprised to not be offered a position.

Don't be like that guy.
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I didn't know Mitch Thorp studied Law...
 

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Hi legal types! I'm looking at doing my Juris Doctor this year, having done a commerce degree previously in accounting and business law. So far I'm looking to apply to Deakin & RMIT. I'm going to have a quick look at Monash but I'm pretty sure I don't quite make the requirements for it unfortunately. They cost is scaring me, but there's a chance I can get my work to pay for a year of it.
So any advice? Has anyone got any positives/negatives of any uni?
 
Allikat said:
Hi legal types! I'm looking at doing my Juris Doctor this year, having done a commerce degree previously in accounting and business law. So far I'm looking to apply to Deakin & RMIT. I'm going to have a quick look at Monash but I'm pretty sure I don't quite make the requirements for it unfortunately. They cost is scaring me, but there's a chance I can get my work to pay for a year of it.
So any advice? Has anyone got any positives/negatives of any uni?
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Speaking as a Deakin student: Don't go to Deakin. Well, you might be okay at Burwood, but at Geelong we're provided with little resources and far inferior lecturers than Burwood, if we have a lecturer at all. Extremely unimpressed.
 
catters_28 said:
Speaking as a Deakin student: Don't go to Deakin. Well, you might be okay at Burwood, but at Geelong we're provided with little resources and far inferior lecturers than Burwood, if we have a lecturer at all. Extremely unimpressed.
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I think it's all online for the JD
 
catters_28 said:
Speaking as a Deakin student: Don't go to Deakin. Well, you might be okay at Burwood, but at Geelong we're provided with little resources and far inferior lecturers than Burwood, if we have a lecturer at all. Extremely unimpressed.
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Philip Clarke, Julie Clarke & Ken Arensen still around?

They're the only three I recall from Waurn Ponds.

I wouldn't worry too much - you can just wipe your memory as soon as you finish a unit. Once you begin working in law, it'll probably be outdated or so shallow as to be of little use anyway.
 
Donners said:
A batch of graduates went through my work as seasonal clerks recently, with a few to be offered positions based on their performance.

One, upon meeting a senior member of the office (a silk) said "I'm going to have your job one day."

The intrepid graduate also tried to arrange a lunch with an even more senior practitioner upon his first meeting with them.

He may have been somewhat surprised to not be offered a position.

Don't be like that guy.
Click to expand...

sadly i've seen this type of thing work countless times, while talented but more introverted candidates aren't offered positions.
 
Donners said:
A batch of graduates went through my work as seasonal clerks recently, with a few to be offered positions based on their performance.

One, upon meeting a senior member of the office (a silk) said "I'm going to have your job one day."

The intrepid graduate also tried to arrange a lunch with an even more senior practitioner upon his first meeting with them.

He may have been somewhat surprised to not be offered a position.

Don't be like that guy.
Click to expand...

Are they socially clueless or arrogant beyond belief? I can't see how they expect anyone to respond positively to this type of behaviour.

Maybe they read the law thread on bigfooty and were told to network and the enterprising young soul thought to start with managing partner.
 
Allikat said:
Hi legal types! I'm looking at doing my Juris Doctor this year, having done a commerce degree previously in accounting and business law. So far I'm looking to apply to Deakin & RMIT. I'm going to have a quick look at Monash but I'm pretty sure I don't quite make the requirements for it unfortunately. They cost is scaring me, but there's a chance I can get my work to pay for a year of it.
So any advice? Has anyone got any positives/negatives of any uni?
Click to expand...

Just do the LLB. There's no reason to do a JD in Australia, it has no prestige factor, particularly when certain uni's want you to pay 100k, cough Melbourne cough, for the privilege of essentially completing an LLB with greater word limits on assignments.
 
Donners said:
Philip Clarke, Julie Clarke & Ken Arensen still around?

They're the only three I recall from Waurn Ponds.

I wouldn't worry too much - you can just wipe your memory as soon as you finish a unit. Once you begin working in law, it'll probably be outdated or so shallow as to be of little use anyway.
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Yep, all of those 3 are still around. Very true about wiping my memory as soon as I finish a unit, although am glad to see it's not necessarily a bad thing. I was slightly worried because I can barely remember a thing from the units I just finished haha.
 
checkraiseulite said:
sadly i've seen this type of thing work countless times, while talented but more introverted candidates aren't offered positions.
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Maybe not as extreme as the suggestion, but a bit of confidence can certainly help. If youre too introverted in professional services, then there's doubts about your ability to bring in clients and generate revenue.
 
checkraiseulite said:
sadly i've seen this type of thing work countless times, while talented but more introverted candidates aren't offered positions.
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Yeah, I found the articles interviews at the big commercial practices to be focused entirely on personality. Marks could get an introvert to that point, but they'd struggle to get any further.

One of the best practitioners I know is a long way along the autism spectrum. He clashes with people (usually extroverts) a bit, but his knowledge, analysis and writen submissions are exceptional. He would be an asset to any practice, but likely wouldn't have got a foot in the door at most.

Some of the best appellate barristers have a distinct lack of social skills, but they get briefs because they are damned good at what they do. A well-established person who lacks social skills is often just affectionately regarded as eccentric, whereas in the early stages of their career they may have been seen as incapable or a bad fit for their environment.


catters_28 said:
Yep, all of those 3 are still around. Very true about wiping my memory as soon as I finish a unit, although am glad to see it's not necessarily a bad thing. I was slightly worried because I can barely remember a thing from the units I just finished haha.
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Good to hear. Philip and Julie are cool. Ken...well, I wonder how the female students feel about his recent comments about sexual offences law. I certainly wasn't impressed. Just goes to show that you can't truly understand an area unless you practice in it.

Yeah, don't worry about forgetting stuff. Nobody could be expected to remember much from so many units over 3-5 years. I looked at my academic transcript soon after leaving uni and was surprised by the titles of the units - I didn't remember them all, let alone their content.

Think of it as practice for how to learn and think as a lawyer. Whem you start working, you'll be able to focus those skills as required.
 
Donners said:
Good to hear. Philip and Julie are cool. Ken...well, I wonder how the female students feel about his recent comments about sexual offences law. I certainly wasn't impressed. Just goes to show that you can't truly understand an area unless you practice in it.
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I somehow missed what Ken said? As a female student myself I am very intrigued. I wasn't a huge fan of him as a lecturer, ended up listening to the burwood lectures online for that unit and ended up enjoying those much more.
 
catters_28 said:
I somehow missed what Ken said? As a female student myself I am very intrigued. I wasn't a huge fan of him as a lecturer, ended up listening to the burwood lectures online for that unit and ended up enjoying those much more.
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It got a bit of coverage from The Australian late last year.

I think this article by him covers his attitudes:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/WAJurist/2014/8.pdf

This quote really sums it up:

In Victoria, the most insidious consequences of the radical feminists’ quest for preferential treatment have been those relating to both the substantive and procedural rules that govern our adversarial system of criminal justice.
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It's actually rather disturbing how far off the mark he is in some respects.
 

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