"The Left"

[The Speaker]

Right, right and left. That doesn't mean you won't find elements of right or left ideologies within them. It's a spectrum, not a black and white definition. It's all well and good to say it's not clear enough, but then, no definition will ever meet your standards of being clear enough. That's not how political systems operate, they evolve and adapt over time.

And here is where it falls apart.

Christian democracy and agrarian socialism are very similar, and are poles apart from libertarianism. The model simply cannot account for this.

 

[JackOutback]

And here is where it falls apart.

Christian democracy and agrarian socialism are very similar, and are poles apart from libertarianism. The model simply cannot account for this.

I don't think it falls apart because libertarianism is right and Christian democracy is centre right (here's the spectrum I was talking about).

I'm not a political scientist, I have a pretty good understanding of various political systems, but there would be people who could place each system on the scale and make perfect sense. Those of us who are not experts will have a passing knowledge. And those will little idea will not know how to use the terms. That doesn't mean it's not a practical guide.

 

[The Speaker]

I don't think it falls apart because libertarianism is right and Christian democracy is centre right (here's the spectrum I was talking about).

I'm not a political scientist, I have a pretty good understanding of various political systems, but there would be people who could place each system on the scale and make perfect sense. Those of us who are not experts will have a passing knowledge. And those will little idea will not know how to use the terms. That doesn't mean it's not a practical guide.

There have been plenty of attempts to do so, but most political scientists only use it as shorthand for other purposes because it is widely used in the community. When it comes to actually defining ideologies, most recognise the need for something more complex. The two-axis system is probably the most common.

 

[JackOutback]

There have been plenty of attempts to do so, but most political scientists only use it as shorthand for other purposes because it is widely used in the community. When it comes to actually defining ideologies, most recognise the need for something more complex. The two-axis system is probably the most common.

The two axis system is better, I agree, but the simplicity of the Left-Right definition is probably what keeps it alive, even if people are beginning to misuse it for their own gain (and any definition would end up being misused for personal gain).

 

[SBYM]

For old fashioned left see Jeremy Corbyn

Probably about to become leader of the opposition in the UK

Makes Kim Carr look rational. Way out there.

Won't drop the bomb.

Delist.

 

[Bostonian]

I wish there truly was a Left Party.

To represent the needs of all us Left Handers.

If every "true" lefty voted for us we could rival the Greens Party for % of national votes.

 

[EagleShore]

"The left..." is one side of the same corrupt coin.

Look at how many arguments it breeds to have people think that there are two different sides of politics! Okay, for things that don't matter so much, there are some slight differences, but in terms of broader, more significant issues involving geopolitics (war no matter which side is in "power") and international trade (TPP no matter who is in "power"), they ARE BOTH SCREWING US!

How people cannot get this nowadays is beyond me. Like in the US - Obama is simply a publicity campaign to mop up the mess that was Dubbya. But ultimately, Obama is beholden to the same powers that controlled Bush, and every POTUS before him. The same powers killed JFK ffs! The military industrial complex, the international banking cartel...

Apparently we live in the information age yet most of us have failed to find the relevant information to develop a solid perspective. Instead, we bicker among ourselves, thinking we actually have a say , meanwhile the world is on fire. Why can't people see this?

 

[Lebbo73]

"The left..." is one side of the same corrupt coin.

Look at how many arguments it breeds to have people think that there are two different sides of politics! Okay, for things that don't matter so much, there are some slight differences, but in terms of broader, more significant issues involving geopolitics (war no matter which side is in "power") and international trade (TPP no matter who is in "power"), they ARE BOTH SCREWING US!

How people cannot get this nowadays is beyond me. Like in the US - Obama is simply a publicity campaign to mop up the mess that was Dubbya. But ultimately, Obama is beholden to the same powers that controlled Bush, and every POTUS before him. The same powers killed JFK ffs! The military industrial complex, the international banking cartel...

Apparently we live in the information age yet most of us have failed to find the relevant information to develop a solid perspective. Instead, we bicker among ourselves, thinking we actually have a say , meanwhile the world is on fire. Why can't people see this?

If you need any more proof of this, watch the movie 'Nixon'. Especially where Dick unexpectedly drops in and talks to the people who hate him the most!

 

[fleabitten]

Oh and don't forget the amount of theft required from the state in the form of taxation to support these people. Refugees generally are unlikely to find jobs and be a net positive to the economy, an example being 9/10 refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan backgrounds being on centerlink after five years, they just cannot get jobs. http://www.news.com.au/national/a-w...are-for-refugees/story-e6frfkvr-1226050161428

5 years isn't actually very long when you're talking about refugees whose previous education and qualifications aren't recognised here, who probably arrive with limited English skills and may have suffered great trauma. The longer refugees are here, the closer they move toward the national averages for employment and income. It's true that first generation refugees don't quite get there, but the next generation actually exceed the Aussie averages. More than half of Australia's billionaires are the children of refugees.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I don't think it falls apart because libertarianism is right and Christian democracy is centre right (here's the spectrum I was talking about).

I'm not a political scientist, I have a pretty good understanding of various political systems, but there would be people who could place each system on the scale and make perfect sense. Those of us who are not experts will have a passing knowledge. And those will little idea will not know how to use the terms. That doesn't mean it's not a practical guide.

Not that simple.

Social Libertarianism is what we consider to be the cultural left. The effect of Neo-liberalism has been to created an apparatus of cultural and political neo-liberalism, where by everyone is reduced to a static individual.

 

[Procrastinator35]

This a term thrown about like confetti in Australia, and I've come to the conclusion that many who hurl it about have no clue what they mean by it. I think there is a very strong case for an argument of minds/ideology over future economic direction, but to many, "the left", often accompanied by an synonym of crazy seems to be a catch all term coined by conservatives in the media, and enthusiastically adopted by their acolytes to mean anybody opposing this government, and it's policies.
So what does left wing mean to you? Is it Maoism, socialism, communism, Marxism, it's never exactly been a united movement, which is why I find this sweeping generalization odd.

Pretty simple really: Left of center.

What does that mean exactly?....Well, the heart in the human body sits slightly left of center, anatomically speaking, in most people....Leftists are commonly associated with putting humanitarian needs at the fore-front of policy concerns over & above economic ones: For example; Schools, hospitals, Welfare etc.

So, a typical 'lefty' will place concerns of the heart over & above the head in a socio/political context concerning government policy....At least that's my view of the underlying philosophical presuppositions surrounding the term....

A 'lefty' is perceived to think with their heart. Whereas a moderate will try to strike a balance between the heart/mind, between economic & social concerns & is more pragmatic & grounded in realism....Which is why 'lefties' are often portrayed as dreamy idealists with their head in the clouds, when it comes to practical/economic concerns: For example. Bob Hawke's declaration that: 'By the year 2000, no child in Australia will be living in poverty'!....Onya Bobby....Maybe old Hawkie should stick to what he does best: Drinking & picking-up.

 

[fleabitten]

Pretty simple really: Left of center.

What does that mean exactly?....Well, the heart in the human body sits slightly left of center, anatomically speaking, in most people....Leftists are commonly associated with putting humanitarian needs at the fore-front of policy concerns over & above economic ones: For example; Schools, hospitals, Welfare etc.

So, a typical 'lefty' will place concerns of the heart over & above the head in a socio/political context concerning government policy....At least that's my view of the underlying philosophical presuppositions surrounding the term....

A 'lefty' is perceived to think with their heart. Whereas a moderate will try to strike a balance between the heart/mind, between economic & social concerns & is more pragmatic & grounded in realism....Which is why 'lefties' are often portrayed as dreamy idealists with their head in the clouds, when it comes to practical/economic concerns: For example. Bob Hawke's declaration that: 'By the year 2000, no child in Australia will be living in poverty'!....Onya Bobby....Maybe old Hawkie should stick to what he does best: Drinking & picking-up.

I'm pretty sure the term comes from the time of the French Revolution. The revolutionary types sat to the king's left in court, while the aristocratic, royal arse-kissers sat on his right.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'm pretty sure the term comes from the time of the French Revolution. The revolutionary types sat to the king's left in court, while the aristocratic, royal arse-kissers sat on his right.

Sounds both plausible & interesting....Sauce?

I've always assumed, at least in a political context, that it was left & right Hegelian-ism; stemming from his Dialectical Materialism prior to Marx, from which the present-day notion owes it's origin....Though the French Revolution does pre-date him.

However, the physical/psycho-biological nature of the term/concept, does strike one as both logical & self-evident; founded upon the human anatomy.

 

[fleabitten]

Sounds both plausible & interesting....Sauce?

A drunken conversation with a Canadian and an Englishman about 15 years ago. But I just googled and found this:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

The terms "left-wing" and "right-wing" originated in the years following the French Revolution of 1789, when the nobility were seated on the right side in parliament meeting, and representatives of the liberalbourgeoisie sat on the left. Thus, the term "right-wing" became associated with maintaining the status quo and protecting the interests of the established elites, like the nobility, clergy and the wealthy.

 

[Procrastinator35]

A drunken conversation with a Canadian and an Englishman about 15 years ago. But I just googled and found this:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

....The thumbs-up is but a poor substitute for the like button.

However, my like-function has been disabled by the repressive 'right-wing' conservatives of the big footy web-site, as I'm perceived as too much of a rabble-raising 'left-wing' under-mining influence.

 

[Chief]

....The thumbs-up is but a poor substitute for the like button.

However, my like-function has been disabled by the repressive 'right-wing' conservatives of the big footy web-site, as I'm perceived as too much of a rabble-raising 'left-wing' under-mining influence.

No: you're just perceived as a trolling idiot.

 

[Procrastinator35]

No: you're just perceived as a trolling idiot.

Sweetness & light.

 

[Procrastinator35]

A perfect summation of CM86 on Feminism right there!....A blow-hard.

 

[Maggie5]

Actually the last couple of seconds reminds me of some of your posts.

 

[Lethality]

I love it when people say "bleeding heart lefty" like caring for others is a bad thing...

Caring is not a bad thing but BHLs tend to care only for perceived minority groups, they have a blindspot to injustice that does not conform to their leftist world view.

 

[not a warmonger]

Caring is not a bad thing but BHLs tend to care only for perceived minority groups, they have a blindspot to injustice that does not conform to their leftist world view.

Give me an example

 

[Lethality]

Give me an example

The focus on women's health which is funded by four times men's health on this country because we have this old belief that they are the minority and we feel good about helping minorities.

 

[not a warmonger]

The focus on women's health which is funded by four times men's health on this country because we have this old belief that they are the minority and we feel good about helping minorities.

No good. Females are the majority in this country funded by right wing govts.

 

[JackOutback]

Caring is not a bad thing but BHLs tend to care only for perceived minority groups, they have a blindspot to injustice that does not conform to their leftist world view.

I disagree with the premise; if they are worried about minority groups, it's probably because minorities are more at risk of discrimination. The majority, but its very nature, is less at risk from society because they are the majority. What tends to happen though, is people often take a single example of the majority being discriminated against or harmed and try to argue that it warrants as much attention as discrimination against minority groups.

 

[Lethality]

I disagree with the premise; if they are worried about minority groups, it's probably because minorities are more at risk of discrimination.

There is still a response which is in proportion to the problem, and they tend to exceed it. Causes which involve minorities get obligatory applause regardless. This is why I prefer to donate or help with causes that receive less attention rather than jump on the breast cancer or homosexual marriage bandwagon.