Strategy The midfield

[Jeremias]

There has been a lot of discussion creeping into other threads about our midfield, but it deserves its own thread.

We enter 2020 still reliant on an experienced few, though the depth we have managed to build in this area of the ground is seriously impressive. We now have a glut of talent who could feature prominently, albeit many are very young and require further development.

The proof will as always be in the pudding, but it is very hard to not get excited about what this group may produce in 2020 and beyond, and it all starts in the midfield.

For a while now I have wanted to take a deeper look into our midfield, and 2020 is finally the year to do it.
I will be posting in this thread a weekly update on formations, success rates and any other stats relevant to the midfield debate.

In the meantime, I am keen to hear what you think is our optimal midfield setup come R1 vs the Tigers?
What are your expectations for our midfield group in 2020?
What do you see as the strengths and weaknesses of our midfield options, both individually and as a collective?
Are there any specific types you think we need to target come the player movement period at the end of 2020?

For reference, this is the midfield group we recently voted as being our consensus best 22:

C: Sam Walsh, Patrick Cripps, Will Setterfield
FOL: Matthew Kreuzer, Ed Curnow, Marc Murphy
INT: Sam Petrevski-Seton, Zac Fisher, Jack Newnes

Whether or not you agree with this as being our best setup to start the year, there is no doubt this is a very talented group. Even more telling perhaps is the caliber of footballers who would be waiting in reserve.

Have at it.

 

[TerryWallet]

Peoples thoughts on where Walsh will play seems to vary a bit between engine room or a wing. I have no doubt that he can play both positions well, but i also have no doubt that he will be in the engine room from Rd1 till he is about 31yo.

He is already clearly our 2nd best mid. He's a special player. When he took it upon himself to singlehandedly arrest our slow starts in the Sydney in Sydney game, i knew we had a driver of immense standing.

It's a little easier to sit down and select the side and slide Walsh to a wing, but in reality, you play your second best mid as a mid. Some guys need development and protection early before going as an engine room player. Others, like Selwood, Viney, Worpel, A.Brayshaw etc don't.

Walsh is too good an engine room player, and too good a compliment to Cripps to play on a wing.

From Rd1.

 

[gbatman]

Would love to see guys go to the VFL like Dow, Stocker etc, work their arses off and build their game to being 35 possession midfielders at that level and apply some real hurt and break into the seniors off the back of really earning it.

Can't think of the last time at Carlton we had first round draft picks running around in the reserves. Maybe one or two who were out of form or favor over the years like Brock McLean did at times or guys coming back from injuries like Judd did once. But having handful of them as young developing players who are there not because the are second rate but just underdeveloped.

Just starting to look right.

I just think the more raw players will play VFL and play it well and that's fine with me. I reckon players develop better and develop stronger mentally when they have to earn it.

A guy like Gibbons is great because he has had to earn it and he gives 100% and plays hard footy. Gibbs was flawed because he was gifted games and could play however he wanted to and would always get a game and developed soft. If you could develop and Dow, Stocker, Fisher and O'Brien who are skilled to play like a Gibbons who has hard to be persistent and work hard and be tough rather than develop them like a Gibbs who was always entitled to a game then you're really creating good footballers.

 

[murphster]

It’s a long pre season boys and girls and a lot can change between now and Rd1, I think the only certainties at this stage is Cripps and Kreuz in the centre square that’s pretty much it at this stage.

Have all pre season to change and develop strategies and game plans and evolve as players and a team, admittedly the most likely starting quartet is the above 2 and Murph and Ed based on the finish to the year, but Teague could have anything in mind for how he wants to attack his first season in charge, most likely he starts where he finished and slowly evolve from there as the season progresses slowly adding players to the mix as they grow and learn.

From track reports Setters could be a starter come Rd1 but we aren’t even at Christmas yet so someone else could stick there hand up in the meantime, from what Diesel said Dow has taken another step forward so he could make the jump quite easily with his skill set and start in Rd1, Fish has come back in ripping Knick and maybe his added strength could see him be able to stand up in the clinches instead of being ragdolled, Stocker is champing at the bit to get a run through the guts and might take some holding back to keep him out of the guts, then there’s Gibbo who’s second half to the year was outstanding as he pushed further up the ground and could easily demand a starting mid spot along with a plethora of others, least of which we have Walsh who will play the majority of the year in the guts and who after Cripps is probably the first one picked, the options are many and varied and the competition for spots has never been fiercer than it is this pre season.

Come the JLT, or whatever they are calling it this year, we might get a better idea of who is looking the goods for Rd1 but until then all spots are up for grabs for those with the will and want to take them and make them there own, we now have so much talent available in this area of the ground and so many of them are reaching that sweet spot of there development at around the same time that whoever earns those starting spots come Rd1 we know that they will come out breathing fire and ready to rip the Tigers a new a-hole and show the rest of the competition that we are the new hard as flint arse kicking, mother *ers from the Carlton Football Club and we don’t take s**t from anyone once we cross that white line.

 

[Stamos]

I will let you two bang on about what you think it won't be, rather than making a prediction of what it will be. Not sure why you are so intent to narrow the starting 3 preferred mids when a number of players will rotate through the middle. But you both know none of us know how it will unfold.

Personally I really don't care, as it's not high on my priority list, my wishlist was addressed, more speed and better users by foot, especially between the arcs

Nobody is saying 3 only, there will be some rotation. But unless something changes dramatically in Teague's philosophy, it will won't be many. It will be around 5-6 mids who start in the centre square per game, but some (Cripps) will start in a huge percentage of centre bounces, and others will be much less.

Cripps, Setterfield, Murphy, Walsh, Ed.

Dow if he's getting a game. Jack if there's a specific role.

 

[JustaBattler]

Peoples thoughts on where Walsh will play seems to vary a bit between engine room or a wing. I have no doubt that he can play both positions well, but i also have no doubt that he will be in the engine room from Rd1 till he is about 31yo.

He is already clearly our 2nd best mid. He's a special player. When he took it upon himself to singlehandedly arrest our slow starts in the Sydney in Sydney game, i knew we had a driver of immense standing.

It's a little easier to sit down and select the side and slide Walsh to a wing, but in reality, you play your second best mid as a mid. Some guys need development and protection early before going as an engine room player. Others, like Selwood, Viney, Worpel, A.Brayshaw etc don't.

Walsh is too good an engine room player, and too good a compliment to Cripps to play on a wing.

From Rd1.

Big Call for round 1 next year ?

 

[Arr0w]

Love having an abundance of options

 

[Mr_Plow]

2020

Cripps, Murphy, E Curnow, Walsh, Setterfield - most usage
Fisher (HFF), Cuningham (HFF), Newnes, LOB - plenty of usage
Dow, Philp, Gibbons (HFF), Silvagni (HFF), Williamson (HBF) - some usage
Stocker, Cottrell - minimal usage, if any

Very comfortable with Philp playing games in 2020, which is not something I thought I would say a few months ago.

 

[Love the Drake]

Kruezer Cripps Ed Murph Setters with cameo’s from Fish Dow Cuningham and Gibbons. That’s 8 pure mids plus Stocker and JSOS as back ups. 10 mids to rotate through.

I really see Setters, Walsh and LOB as best value running the wings.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It’s going to be interesting to see how we manage it. For me I would love to see Kreuze, Cripps and Curnow (doing run with roles) being our mainstays. The last spot probably rotated with more dynamic types. Setters playing Cripps role when he is off would also be a good learning experience. Dose SOJ get run with roles? I hope so but really not sure.
We’ve arguably got the second best young midfield group imo so it’ll be interesting to see how we try develop them.

 

[branedotorg]

To sure who will own the negating role once curnow retires.

we have a good range of attacking mids, who will take the defensive mantle?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

To sure who will own the negating role once curnow retires.

we have a good range of attacking mids, who will take the defensive mantle?

Maybe SOJ on the Martin, Fyfe, Bont types. We will most likely have young highly rated mids not live up to their potential who might get pushed into that role, if we are good enough we might just go head to head

 

[DamianBis]

To sure who will own the negating role once curnow retires.

we have a good range of attacking mids, who will take the defensive mantle?

Look at how the dogs "neutralized" Cripps in round 13. That's how I'd like our team to handle tagging opposition

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CJMB]

To sure who will own the negating role once curnow retires.

we have a good range of attacking mids, who will take the defensive mantle?

Don't necessarily have to run a genuine shut-down tagger, just need the midfield to be accountable and run both ways.

Between Cripps, Setters, Dow, Stocker, Philp, Kemp, Cuningham we should have enough players that can 'mind' the opposition.

Look at how the dogs "neutralized" Cripps in round 13. That's how I'd like our team to handle tagging opposition

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Exactly. Doesn't need to be a hard tag where we sacrifice one mid spot offensively, just need to be clever about it

 

[Stamos]

Look at how the dogs "neutralized" Cripps in round 13. That's how I'd like our team to handle tagging opposition

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

The injured Cripps who missed the following 2 weeks?

 

[CJMB]

The injured Cripps who missed the following 2 weeks?

The tactic was sound though. They constantly put bodies in between him and the ball to inhibit his ability to get first touch then they would spread after a second or two

 

[Beer n Skittles]

To sure who will own the negating role once curnow retires.

we have a good range of attacking mids, who will take the defensive mantle?

I wouldn't look to have a dedicated tagger, maybe have JSOS able to move in & do it occasionally.

Long term I'd look to have SPS as the mid who plays on the defensive side of stoppages (is that spot called a sweeper?)

 

[JustaBattler]

The tactic was sound though. They constantly put bodies in between him and the ball to inhibit his ability to get first touch then they would spread after a second or two

maybe the downside to that is sacrificing structure which can be exploited.

 

[HARKER]

2020

Cripps, Murphy, E Curnow, Walsh, Setterfield - most usage
Fisher (HFF), Cuningham (HFF), Newnes, LOB - plenty of usage
Dow, Philp, Gibbons (HFF), Silvagni (HFF), Williamson (HBF) - some usage
Stocker, Cottrell - minimal usage, if any

Very comfortable with Philp playing games in 2020, which is not something I thought I would say a few months ago.

There's somewhere where one can access who attended centre square stoppages and for how many times.
Anyone know where?

As you suggested, the most often used will be Cripps, Setterfield, Murphy, Walsh & ECurnow.
I think that has already been demonstrated to some degree.

The next three to see action will largely depend on being in the team, but I'd guess that to be Fisher, Dow and Petrevski-Seton....I know SPS will be playing in the back-line but nevertheless, I still see him as belonging in this group ahead of others.

After that I feel Cuningham may see some action but I just don't see him being a viable option in the medium to longer term.
JSilvagni for a stopping role/chop out and maybe a little bit of Gibbons.

No Newnes, O'Brien, Philp or Williamson but we'll see.

 

[Stamos]

There's somewhere where one can access who attended centre square stoppages and for how many times.
Anyone know where?

There was a very helpful * supporter who would post the info in the post match threads, but not for every single game.

 

[Weiterbot23]

The tactic was sound though. They constantly put bodies in between him and the ball to inhibit his ability to get first touch then they would spread after a second or two

Then Murphy ran around by himself

Boy that was an exciting game

 

[branedotorg]

Maybe SOJ on the Martin, Fyfe, Bont types. We will most likely have young highly rated mids not live up to their potential who might get pushed into that role, if we are good enough we might just go head to head

I wouldn't call Curnow just a negative tagger though, he gets clearances and scores regularly. He's not just sitting on someone.

Cripps, Walsh, setterfield? No too valuable to use negatively imo.
Dow, sps, stocker? Maybe

Maybe newnes?, Lob? Because they can run off most opponents.

 

[Arr0w]

To sure who will own the negating role once curnow retires.

we have a good range of attacking mids, who will take the defensive mantle?

Maybe Cottrell? His pace and endurance is a massive plus.

Might need Jack on some of the Fyfe like size mids

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I wouldn't call Curnow just a negative tagger though, he gets clearances and scores regularly. He's not just sitting on someone.

Cripps, Walsh, setterfield? No too valuable to use negatively imo.
Dow, sps, stocker? Maybe

Maybe newnes?, Lob? Because they can run off most opponents.

My worry with Stocker, SPS and Dow would be the type of players we would want to run with would probably run them of their legs. LOB I think is a good one on say someone like a Hill, Kelly possibly Whitfield

 

[HARKER]

Maybe Cottrell? His pace and endurance is a massive plus.

Might need Jack on some of the Fyfe like size mids

That could well work. We'll see just how tough young Cottrell is this season.
If he's capable of a being a De Boer type bastard, that would do fine....and if Cottrell is still 181cm....I'll eat your hat.

There was a very helpful * supporter who would post the info in the post match threads, but not for every single game.

I tried FootyWire but couldn't access those stats. They are somewhere though.

 

[Arr0w]

There's somewhere where one can access who attended centre square stoppages and for how many times.
Anyone know where?

As you suggested, the most often used will be Cripps, Setterfield, Murphy, Walsh & ECurnow.
I think that has already been demonstrated to some degree.

The next three to see action will largely depend on being in the team, but I'd guess that to be Fisher, Dow and Petrevski-Seton....I know SPS will be playing in the back-line but nevertheless, I still see him as belonging in this group ahead of others.

After that I feel Cuningham may see some action but I just don't see him being a viable option in the medium to longer term.
JSilvagni for a stopping role/chop out and maybe a little bit of Gibbons.

No Newnes, O'Brien, Philp or Williamson but we'll see.

There was a very helpful * supporter who would post the info in the post match threads, but not for every single game.

I can get figures from about round 15 onward

Can share the link if you wish