The off topic thread 6.0

[Bradesmaen]

It's the prices still putting me off. Although we'd also need something bigger with the two boys.

It's much worse here A VW Golf used to be 20,000 Euro back 20 years ago. Now it's around 40,000. Volkswagen brought in this Novated Lease style system and people plump for that as it's less up front cost... but it's driven up prices (so have government taxes). I was looking at second hand Golfs and for 20,000 you can get one that's done around 150,000km in 5 years or less KM's and older. That's 30,000 AUD!

 

[SM]

Nah, they all charge per kw. I found one in Wales that was 11kw only that cost 20p per kw.


For the rest of the trip I charged where I was staying with family so essentially nothing. It's the long trips that sting when you need a quick charge.

Yeah that's what I mean, it's by kW so the speed doesn't change it.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I was using 150kw chargers though. Returning rental car at Heathrow was a nightmare as finding a fast charger nearby was difficult (most were occupied). I couldn't exactly wait around all day for the charge to complete.

The decision to buy an EV when you know your domestic situation is very different from when you are renting a hire car. You shouldn't have had to arrange your family trip around where chargers are available, especially if you had booked a petrol car. At the very least they should have organised to give you the car you had booked at the nearest convenient outlet.

 

[Zidane98]

Yeah that's what I mean, it's by kW so the speed doesn't change it.

Except for the fact that fast chargers cost 3 X what slow chagers do per kw.

Fast chargers (150kw plus) costs between 0.60 to 0.90 pence per kw.

Slow chargers (50kw or less) - around 0.20 to 0.50p.

Obviously on a long trip and being down to 20-30% you will need a fast charge unless you want to wait 2-3 hours for a charge to 80%

 

[ADL9798]

VW. Yeah I charged it at the servo yesterday, effectively a full tank for $17, pretty happy with that when charging at home would be similar but over a much longer period of time. I might look at getting a level 2 charger installed at home at some point which would cut the cost a bit but depends how much the up front cost would be and practicality.

A few months back we registered our EV and charger with Origin and can now charge at home for 5 cents/kWh. Great deal that's still available if you're interested. Just checked my account, I spend $15 a month charging my car up, using it every day, 350km range per charge.

$15 per month. Not a typo.

https://www.originenergy.com.au/ev-power-up/

Something to factor in when looking at the initial purchase price of electric vs petrol cars is how vastly cheaper they are to run.

The concerns a lot of people had about battery life (myself included) are now looking unfounded too.

Ours is covered under warranty for up to 240,000km or 8 years. Beyond the warranty period, there are real world examples now of Australian EV owners with several years and over 300,000km on the clock reporting only a 10% reduction on the battery’s original capacity. Find me a petrol car that's still running with no major mechanical issues with that much mileage.

We're now at the stage where the selling point of these cars isn't about having a Messianic save the world from global warming complex, it’s getting very close to the point of being a no brainer based on nothing else but $$$ (if we're not there already).

 

[Zidane98]

A few months back we registered our EV and charger with Origin and can now charge at home for 5 cents/kWh. Great deal that's still available if you're interested. Just checked my account, I spend $15 a month charging my car up, using it every day, 350km range per charge. Not a typo.

https://www.originenergy.com.au/ev-power-up/

Something to factor in when looking at the initial purchase price of electric vs petrol cars is how vastly cheaper they are to run.

The concerns a lot of people had about battery life (myself included) are now looking unfounded too.

Ours is covered under warranty for up to 240,000km or 8 years. Beyond the warranty period, there are real world examples now of Australian EV owners with several years and over 300,000km on the clock reporting only a 10% reduction on the battery’s original capacity. Find me a petrol car that's still running with no major mechanical issues with that many kilometres on the clock.

We're now at the stage where the selling point of these cars isn't about having a Messianic save the world from global warming complex, it’s getting very close to the point of being a no brainer based on nothing else but $$$ (if we're not there already).

Yep. This is why we are getting an EV. It was always about cost for me. Emissions was never the reason to buy one. For a runaround car to and from work, to and from the shops every week I will always be able to charge at home for a cheap rate too.


If I have solar and battery storage, charging will be effectively free.

 

[SM]

A few months back we registered our EV and charger with Origin and can now charge at home for 5 cents/kWh. Great deal that's still available if you're interested. Just checked my account, I spend $15 a month charging my car up, using it every day, 350km range per charge. Not a typo.

https://www.originenergy.com.au/ev-power-up/

Something to factor in when looking at the initial purchase price of electric vs petrol cars is how vastly cheaper they are to run.

The concerns a lot of people had about battery life (myself included) are now looking unfounded too.

Ours is covered under warranty for up to 240,000km or 8 years. Beyond the warranty period, there are real world examples now of Australian EV owners with several years and over 300,000km on the clock reporting only a 10% reduction on the battery’s original capacity. Find me a petrol car that's still running with no major mechanical issues with that many kilometres on the clock.

We're now at the stage where the selling point of these cars isn't about having a Messianic save the world from global warming complex, it’s getting very close to the point of being a no brainer based on nothing else but $$$ (if we're not there already).

We're in a town house so just exploring charging options. One guy on the committee pretty resistant to installing chargers because the complex could blow up.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Yep. This is why we are getting an EV. It was always about cost for me. Emissions was never the reason to buy one. For a runaround car to and from work, to and from the shops every week I will always be able to charge at home for a cheap rate too.

If I have solar and battery storage, charging will be effectively free.

It's not free. Solar and batteries cost thousands of dollars. EVs tend to cost up to 30% more than ICE cars.


If you are just tootling around to the shops and work it's likely you won't run up enough Kms to justify an EV on costs for about 15 years.

 

[ADL9798]

We're in a town house so just exploring charging options. One guy on the committee pretty resistant to installing chargers because the complex could blow up.

Was about $800 for the home car charger and about that much again for the electrician to install it. No explosions yet.

 

[SM]

It's not free. Solar and batteries cost thousands of dollars. EVs tend to cost up to 30% more than ICE cars.


If you are just tootling around to the shops and work it's likely you won't run up enough Kms to justify an EV on costs for about 15 years.

That is just wildly wrong.

There are plenty of EVs that are just as affordable as ICE, check out Jaecoo which is pretty well regarded.

Installing solar isn't just paid off through charging car but operating the power in your entire household. Of course there's an up front cost, but the pay off horizon is about 3-4 years.

 

[SM]

View attachment 2629373

Was about $800 for the home car charger and about that much again for the electrician to install it. No explosions yet.

Seriously though, did it have any impact on insurance or anything else? That's the main concern regarding additional costs beyond installation.

 

[Bradesmaen]

View attachment 2629373

Was about $800 for the home car charger and about that much again for the electrician to install it. No explosions yet.

Yet..

 

[SM]

I wonder how they feel about people putting in gas connections for BBQs, or just having propane tanks. No risk of explosions there?

 

[Frank Bunn]

We're in a town house so just exploring charging options. One guy on the committee pretty resistant to installing chargers because the complex could blow up.

Many houses can't even charge one EV at home let alone two cars or even three cars that families have these days.

 

[SM]

Many houses can't even charge one EV at home let alone two cars or even three cars that families have these days.

Huh

 

[Bradesmaen]

Many houses can't even charge one EV at home let alone two cars or even three cars that families have these days.

Houses can charge EVs easily, there's nothing in new house design that doesn't allow for that. Yes, the driveways are generally shorter and smaller than they used to be, so having 2 cars is difficult but that isn't related to charging.

 

[ADL9798]

Seriously though, did it have any impact on insurance or anything else? That's the main concern regarding additional costs beyond installation.

Nope.

 

[Cruyff14]

We got solar installed at the end of April, 49.2 KW battery and 10.45 inverter.

We paid $16,000 and the battery has never lost charge.

 

[Zidane98]

It's not free. Solar and batteries cost thousands of dollars. EVs tend to cost up to 30% more than ICE cars.


If you are just tootling around to the shops and work it's likely you won't run up enough Kms to justify an EV on costs for about 15 years.

The energy aspect is completely free if you charge your car from stored solar power.

Or if you charge when you are feeding the grid during the day.

Whereas it's 3k plus on fuel. Over 10 years that's a huge difference.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Houses can charge EVs easily, there's nothing in new house design that doesn't allow for that. Yes, the driveways are generally shorter and smaller than they used to be, so having 2 cars is difficult but that isn't related to charging.

Over the years I lived at 8 different addresses in the UK and 2 in Spain. None of which could have home charging. For example, all the London addresses were street parking only and sometimes you would end up 100m away from your house. Parts of Melbourne and Sydney are like that, plus a lot of apartments that don't have charging facility.

Australian suburbs have more driveways so you could charge one car. 2nd and 3rd cars end up on the street.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The energy aspect is completely free if you charge your car from stored solar power.

Or if you charge when you are feeding the grid during the day.

Whereas it's 3k plus on fuel. Over 10 years that's a huge difference.

Chat:GPT is good for this sort of stuff. I got it to compare the total costs of a Tesla Model Y to a RAV4 GX Hybrid over 10 years.

At 10,000 km/year, the RAV4 is likely to be about A$2,500–3,000 cheaper. At 15,000 km/year it's about break-even. At 20,000 km/year you're ahead with the Tesla.

I got it to consider depreciation. It's more unpredictable but past trends have EVs depreciating more than hybrids. It could be a bigger factor than the higher initial price and energy costs. It cited a 'reasonable estimate' that the RAV4 might have a 10-year cost advantage of A$5,000–15,000 over a Model Y at 10,000 km/year. And of course there's no range anxiety with a hybrid.

 

[Zidane98]

Range anxiety is only going to be an issue on long trips.

Electric cars are best in city traffic. Daily use, regen braking charging etc.

In this use scenario with charging at home maybe once a week there are no range dramas at all.

 

[SM]

Over the years I lived at 8 different addresses in the UK and 2 in Spain. None of which could have home charging. For example, all the London addresses were street parking only and sometimes you would end up 100m away from your house. Parts of Melbourne and Sydney are like that, plus a lot of apartments that don't have charging facility.

Australian suburbs have more driveways so you could charge one car. 2nd and 3rd cars end up on the street.

Legislation has changed such that you can't reject owner requests to install charging in strata complexes without good reason.

You seem very desperately keen to dismiss ev for some reason.

You realise driveways imply garages? So you can park a car in the garage, another in the driveway, and could easily charge both. You also don't charge daily you charge maybe once a week, so you could theoretically have 7 cars and charge a different one each day if you were that active.

 

[SM]

Chat:GPT is good for this sort of stuff. I got it to compare the total costs of a Tesla Model Y to a RAV4 GX Hybrid over 10 years.

At 10,000 km/year, the RAV4 is likely to be about A$2,500–3,000 cheaper. At 15,000 km/year it's about break-even. At 20,000 km/year you're ahead with the Tesla.

I got it to consider depreciation. It's more unpredictable but past trends have EVs depreciating more than hybrids. It could be a bigger factor than the higher initial price and energy costs. It cited a 'reasonable estimate' that the RAV4 might have a 10-year cost advantage of A$5,000–15,000 over a Model Y at 10,000 km/year. And of course there's no range anxiety with a hybrid.

What about service costs? A hybrid has a combustion engine which requires a more intensive service. The range on EVs are about fourfold with $0 required on petrol and minimal charging costs depending on your choice of charging.

 

[Zidane98]

It seems pretty clear within our lifetimes that the vast majority of personal transport will be ev.