The on topic thread 3.0

[moomba]

Interesting thread.

Unless there's something I'm missing, this was all from the CAS hearing a year ago.

From emails that CAS found that Der Spiegel altered, doctored and in one case merged with another email to imply guilt.

 

[moomba]

Worth pointing out too that the email iin the article is from April 2011, before UEFA FFP existed let alone premier league FFP.

So Mansour could have brought it to the club himself in a wheelbarrow marked Etihad without breaking any rules.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

City seem to be doing a lot to try and stop evidence seeing the light of day.

 

[moomba]

City seem to be doing a lot to try and stop evidence seeing the light of day.

The evidence we would have been asked for has already seen the light of day, at CAS. They even said that if we had provided that evidence to UEFA in the first place the case probably wouldn't have gone ahead.

When it comes down to.it we don't trust football authorities, egged on by rival clubs, to act impartially, so are reluctant to give blanket access to authorities to sensitive commercial information for a fishing expedition before a charge has been laid.

Particularly as the FA had to change their own rules to oblige us to provide the information they wanted.

But we lost the case, so I'm sure the requested information would have been provided by now.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

The evidence we would have been asked for has already seen the light of day, at CAS. They even said that if we had provided that evidence to UEFA in the first place the case probably wouldn't have gone ahead.

When it comes down to.it we don't trust football authorities, egged on by rival clubs, to act impartially, so are reluctant to give blanket access to authorities to sensitive commercial information for a fishing expedition before a charge has been laid.

Sounds a bit tin foil hat tbh. If the evidence is the same as the stuff presented to CAS then I'm not sure what the problem is. Surely you release the information and are exonerated or you try not too and are investigated and distrusted indefinitely.

It looks like City have something to hide by continuing their current course of action.

 

[SM]

Yeah dunno what sort of innocent party doesn't want the evidence published that would exonerate them.

 

[moomba]

Sounds a bit tin foil hat tbh. If the evidence is the same as the stuff presented to CAS then I'm not sure what the problem is. Surely you release the information and are exonerated or you try not too and are investigated and distrusted indefinitely.

It looks like City have something to hide by continuing their current course of action.

Its my presumption that the F5)) A want the
same information, both cases are based on the same Der Spiegel articles so I presume they are/were both looking for the same.smoking gun.

I've not followed the FA investigation closely, but with UEFA I think we had a totally legitimate issue with handing over confidential information. People like Gill and Parry with links to our rivals were involved in the process and we were seeing regular leads through people like Tariq Panja (Gill) and Tony Evans (Parry) in the press when it was supposed to be a confidential process.

The fact the we argued the case suggests we.had similar concerns with.the FA. And one thing we do know is that when the investigation started the FA by its own rules were allowed to request the information they requested. They changed their own rules as a result.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

It sounds like the courts are going to make City hand over everything and make everything public anyway so we shall see whether it is a fishing expedition or if there is something specific they are looking for.

 

[moomba]

Yeah dunno what sort of innocent party doesn't want the evidence published that would exonerate them.

It's just an investigation at this stage. We don't need exoneration (and will never get it anyway).

The FA need evidence, if the Der Spiegel articles are enough to charge us then so be it. But most if not all the Der Spiegel stuff is outside the UK statute of limitations so I.think the FA are hoping to.do a bit of fishing with our info in the hope they'll find something else.

 

[moomba]

It sounds like the courts are going to make City hand over everything and make everything public anyway so we shall see whether it is a fishing expedition or if there is something specific they are looking for.

I'd say we've already handed over the info. AFAIK the reason for the decision has already been released, it was mainly procedural stuff and doesn't go into much (if any) detail of the investigation.

 

[Zidane98]

Its my presumption that the F5)) A want the
same information, both cases are based on the same Der Spiegel articles so I presume they are/were both looking for the same.smoking gun.

I've not followed the FA investigation closely, but with UEFA I think we had a totally legitimate issue with handing over confidential information. People like Gill and Parry with links to our rivals were involved in the process and we were seeing regular leads through people like Tariq Panja (Gill) and Tony Evans (Parry) in the press when it was supposed to be a confidential process.

The fact the we argued the case suggests we.had similar concerns with.the FA. And one thing we do know is that when the investigation started the FA by its own rules were allowed to request the information they requested. They changed their own rules as a result.

You signed an agreement with UEFA to cooperate with all investigations into FFP. So I dont see the issue

Of more concern is a CAS judge also representing Etihad airlines as a lawyer. And the subsequent leaks to Man City sources before the verdict was announced. Really not surprising you never raised that as an issue.

Whos on the panel for the FA investigation?

 

[Zidane98]

Looks like Nick Harris wont be travelling to Abu Dhabi anyime soon lol.

 

[moomba]

You signed an agreement with UEFA to cooperate with all investigations into FFP. So I dont see the issue.

Of more concern is a CAS judge also representing Etihad airlines as a lawyer. And the subsequent leaks to Man City sources before the verdict was announced. Really not surprising you never raised that as an issue.

Because it wasn't an issue.

All tribunal members were approved by City and UEFA. If they didn't like one of them they should have said no.

Whos on the panel for the FA investigation?

No idea.

 

[RPCB]

Hopefully this is the greatest photoshop ever because Wayne Rooney’s marriage might be just a little bit ****ed.

 

[Memphis]

Done. Also talking to the admin about the tipping comp as well.

Sign me up for that.

 

[Zidane98]

Because it wasn't an issue.

All tribunal members were approved by City and UEFA. If they didn't like one of them they should have said no.



No idea.

Neither should be handing over information to UEFA investigators. City signed an agreement that they would do such a thing. If there was a problem doing that then don't sign the agreement. No different to UEFA not asking for the Etihad lawyer to being removed from the CAS judgement panel.

 

[Cruyff14]

Fair call, looks like both lol

 

[moomba]

Neither should be handing over information to UEFA investigators. City signed an agreement that they would do such a thing. If there was a problem doing that then don't sign the agreement. No different to UEFA not asking for the Etihad lawyer to being removed from the CAS judgement panel.

PMSL. Don't sign the agreement, don't play in Europe competition.

We made a decision not to provide the info to an organisation that was leaking details of a confidential case, and we got punished for it.

Everyone has moved on, we have a Premier league investigation to worry about now.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Fair call, looks like both lol

View attachment 1187144

Even he doesn't win trophies

 

[Zidane98]

PMSL. Don't sign the agreement, don't play in Europe competition.

We made a decision not to provide the info to an organisation that was leaking details of a confidential case, and we got punished for it.

Everyone has moved on, we have a Premier league investigation to worry about now.

PMSL. Tin foil hat conspiracy theories are not a reason to dishonour a signed agreement.

 

[moomba]

I'm sure most a bored with FFP cases and investigations, and people will believe what they want regardless of the outcome of the FFP.

But from a practical point of view the FA have a number of hurdles to overcome.

First is the 6 year statute of limitation in UK law. Most of the Der Spiegel stuff was the 2010-14 iirc, and none of it will be admissible in a UK Court. The FA could choose to ignore that, but would be a bit pointless if it was just overturned on appeal.

Second is the admissibility of hacked emails. Not allowed in UK law but it is allowed in Swiss law.

If the above two apply then I don't think Der Spiegel stuff will be part of the case, so the FA will be relying on a smoking gun in the new information we provide to get to the point where they could charge us. But even that, unless it's less than 6 years old they're going to struggle to use. Most of the allegations against us are 10 years old.

On the flip side, it's not clear what the route of appeal is if we are charged and penalised. I don't think CAS is an option so would probably be the UK Court system.

And while the investigation is ongoing we'll continue to get stories like the one the other day (and the other three in the Daily Mail) which I'm sure the club won't want to see.

We saw at CAS that people won't change their opinions with a guilty or innocent verdict so I think, now that we will have provided the information requested, that we should be pushing for a quick resolution, and the finally I think it'll be the end of it.

 

[moomba]

PMSL. Tin foil hat conspiracy theories are not a reason to dishonour a signed agreement.

We chose not to, we got punished.

Perhaps not everyone has moved on yet.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Done. Also talking to the admin about the tipping comp as well.

Still waiting for my predictions winners badge. Any movement at that station Rosscoe?

 

[Memphis]

Still waiting for my predictions winners badge. Any movement at that station Rosscoe?

peternorth If this man gets a badge for his prediction then it'd be fitting for my NBA predication badge too thanks.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Doesn’t look bad in game full kit.

It's usually dice.

The boss does all the prep, she slices when she cbf.

Look, I’m not after excuses. Just solutions.

This is the hamburger faux pas all over again.