The on topic thread

[chef]

Some sharpness/reactions etc can be lost I agree. There's only so much training you can do, but I believe around £10m us well worth it for a keeper of Cech's calibre.

Not that Mourinho would ever sell to Wenger, but some speculation is he wants to stay in London.

Mou will never sell to Wenger and by the sounds of it it'll be to someone outside of England.

 

[Shoei]

Mou will never sell to Wenger and by the sounds of it it'll be to someone outside of England.

Kinda hard to do if he is set on staying in London/England. Would you really want to up and move your young family to a new country where they don't speak the language for a gig that could potentially last only 2-3 years?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Cech to Palace.

 

[chef]

Kinda hard to do if he is set on staying in London/England. Would you really want to up and move your young family to a new country where they don't speak the language for a gig that could potentially last only 2-3 years?

Haven't heard or read anything to think he's set on London, all the talk from his manager is about clubs outside of England, plus he's not English anyway so the language thing isn't relevant IMO.

Plus I doubt big Pete would want to go to one of our rivals, but thats just my opinion.

 

[BlueBen]

Cech to Palace.

He's clearly off to Leyton Orient.

 

[jd2010]

Unfortunately McEarcheran just wasn't/isn't that good of a player. He's shown that at a number of clubs at a number of different levels.

What players gave Spurs, Saints, Pool or Arsenal developed (serious question) that would get games at a City, Chelsea, Bayern, Barca etc?

Bale, Kane at City or Chelsea, Ox would get a look in at City and Chelsea

 

[jd2010]

Also, not sure you can use Southampton as a good example - as said, they improved after buying quality foreign talent. Can you honestly say they would have had the same season if they bought English talent?

It's good business no? They're still bringing through English talent like Ward-Prowse, Targett etc. from the famed academy and found cheaper foreign talent to play with them and improve their results on the pitch. In 2-3 years time when Ward-Prowse gets snapped up by a City or United for £25m they'll bring in another cheaper foreigner with HG talent still coming through supporting them. They're the exact template progressive clubs should follow, and if they did England would be back to a top 10 nation in world football. Problem is out of the 72 football league clubs only about 4 clubs (MK Dons, Spurs, Southampton, Crewe, perhaps Villa will go that way now they have Sherwood) look to operate in such a way. Like I've said many times the problem isn't with City or Chelsea, with the riches they have and pressure that goes with playing there their U21 talent has to be extreme top level (Hazard) to even get a look in. It's the clubs like Stoke, Newcastle, QPR etc. who are bringing in bog average players from all over the world and regressing as football clubs!

 

[chef]

Bale, Kane at City or Chelsea, Ox would get a look in at City and Chelsea

Bale yes, the others no(Kane looks good, but we have Costa and City's got Kun)..

 

[jd2010]

Bale yes, the others no.

Kane over Drogba, Bony, Dzeko and Remy easily
Ox is better than Navas. Wouldn't say he is much worse than a Willian or Guardado. Big fan of his so perhaps I'm being a bit biased

 

[moomba]

From last October

Southampton’s technical director was still surprised that there was minimal contact from Dyke given that St Mary’s represents the solution for the vexed FA coaching staff at St George’s. “Why don’t they come and talk to the clubs more?’’ Hunter mused. “They’ll ‘say’ they will.

 

[jd2010]

The FA are definitely incompetent. But player academies and youth development can still be achieved by the clubs without the FA as Southampton have proven. It's just a shame clubs are pumping millions into bringing Jozy Altidore & Carlos Sanchez's into the league instead of focusing in house

 

[Magma]

yeah i think big clubs can be absolved of most blame when sunderland are willing to spend about 10 mil and 60 grand a week on jozy altidore.

 

[moomba]

The FA are definitely incompetent. But player academies and youth development can still be achieved by the clubs without the FA as Southampton have proven. It's just a shame clubs are pumping millions into bringing Jozy Altidore & Carlos Sanchez's into the league instead of focusing in house

Sunderland only have 10 non-home grown players in their premier league squad * and sold Altidore in January. Villa only have 12 non-home grown players in their squad **. So a bit harsh to continually hold them up as all that is wrong with youth development. They are also a category A rated clubs so have committed to spending on coaching, infrastructure and training time at their academy.

* Without checking a few of their home grown (O'Shea, Van Aanholt, Larssen, Mannone) would become "foreigners" under the new rules.
** Without checking they'd lose Clark, Weimann, Senderos, Herd, N'Zogbia and Given from their squad.

Important also to recognise that part of the FA plan to improve academies is to ensure that every non English player in academies finds it that much harder to get a spot in the senior squad. In effect, clubs would have wasted fortunes developing players that clubs just won't be able to take a risk on.

 

[jd2010]

Sunderland only have 10 non-home grown players in their premier league squad * and sold Altidore in January. Villa only have 12 non-home grown players in their squad **. So a bit harsh to continually hold them up as all that is wrong with youth development. They are also a category A rated clubs so have committed to spending on coaching, infrastructure and training time at their academy.

* Without checking a few of their home grown (O'Shea, Van Aanholt, Larssen, Mannone) would become "foreigners" under the new rules.
** Without checking they'd lose Clark, Weimann, Senderos, Herd, N'Zogbia and Given from their squad.

Important also to recognise that part of the FA plan to improve academies is to ensure that every non English player in academies finds it that much harder to get a spot in the senior squad. In effect, clubs would have wasted fortunes developing players that clubs just won't be able to take a risk on.

They swapped him for a 30 year old on equally massive wages. Effectively have just thrown away that money. Sunderland have also taken on older HG players like the ones mentioned like O'Shea & Wes Brown who are on big wages and well past it, and in turn hindering youth development.

Villa have been a poorly managed football club but painting them with the same brush as others would be harsh. Their HG talent just hasn't had good enough structures in place or enough talent to develop as they should.

 

[jd2010]

End of the day the clubs will run themselves however they choose fit with or without regulations in place. Some will try and be cost effective and take chances on older guys or foreigners over youth. But at the end of the day supporters of clubs like Sunderland, Newcastle, QPR & Villa (clubs with fan bases or financial support) have to surely get pissed with the way clubs like Southampton & Swansea have so easily passed their clubs running it in a correct way. 5-7 years ago neither of those 2 clubs had any right to be above at least 3 of the 4 mentioned but they've turned it around big time. Surely their supporters should be hoping their clubs get run the same way

 

[moomba]

They swapped him for a 30 year old on equally massive wages. Effectively have just thrown away that money. Sunderland have also taken on older HG players like the ones mentioned like O'Shea & Wes Brown who are on big wages and well past it, and in turn hindering youth development.

O'Shea and Brown aren't hindering youth development. Not having youth players good enough to replace them is hindering youth development.

Villa have been a poorly managed football club but painting them with the same brush as others would be harsh. Their HG talent just hasn't had good enough structures in place or enough talent to develop as they should.

Which is why clubs bring in players that have been there done that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[jd2010]

O'Shea and Brown aren't hindering youth development. Not having youth players good enough to replace them is hindering youth development.

What's the point looking for or nurturing a young CB when you have 2 30+ guys on over £40,000 a week? Vergini wouldn't be on low wages either. So 3 over 26 well paid CBs are on the list. All at best 6 out of 10 players! There's a reason they're consistently 13th-17th on the table and over paying guys who are no more than a 6/10 player is classic Sunderland

 

[jd2010]

Which is why clubs bring in players that have been there done that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Alan Hutton and Darren Bent have been there and done that. That's not the way to advance as a football club like Swansea or Southampton have done. Can't think of the last dad's army that actually did progress a club. No wait Portsmouth! And look how that end up financially

 

[moomba]

What's the point looking for or nurturing a young CB when you have 2 30+ guys on over £40,000 a week? Vergini wouldn't be on low wages either. So 3 over 26 well paid CBs are on the list. All at best 6 out of 10 players! There's a reason they're consistently 13th-17th on the table and over paying guys who are no more than a 6/10 player is classic Sunderland

Every club is looking to develop players regardless of the makeup of the squad. But it's not an exact science and it's not just a matter of giving them an opportunity and they'll become a star. We've not got an English player in our academy that I would put in Sunderlands team ahead of O'Shite, Brown or Vergini. So I'm not sure why they should be expected to find one.

Do you think it was a mistake for Spurs to buy Scott Parker?

 

[jd2010]

Every club is looking to develop players regardless of the makeup of the squad. But it's not an exact science and it's not just a matter of giving them an opportunity and they'll become a star. We've not got an English player in our academy that I would put in Sunderlands team ahead of O'Shite, Brown or Vergini. So I'm not sure why they should be expected to find one.

Do you think it was a mistake for Spurs to buy Scott Parker?

Scott Parker aided an improved Tom Huddlestone & Luka Modric who were both sold for massive profits so no not at all. Plus he performed well enough that we were still able to sell him for the same price we got him for.

Would you rather your club be run like Southampton/Swansea or Newcastle/Sunderland?

 

[moomba]

Alan Hutton and Darren Bent have been there and done that. That's not the way to advance as a football club like Swansea or Southampton have done. Can't think of the last dad's army that actually did progress a club. No wait Portsmouth! And look how that end up financially

You can look right back to Bolton in the early 2000's to see clubs that have progressed by signing ready made players. I remember questions being asked of Liverpool signing Gary McAllister not all that long ago. Turned out to be a great signing for them.

Everyone can pick examples of where a ready made signing hasn't worked. But equally we can all point to ones that have worked.

As for Sunderland, they've also signed younger players like Connor Wickham, Rodwell etc. The average age of their squad is 26.23, a whole 0.13 of a year older than Spurs.

 

[jd2010]

a whole 0.13 of a year older than Spurs.

We do have a 43 year old in our squad!

You can look right back to Bolton in the early 2000's to see clubs that have progressed by signing ready made players

And how did that go for them in the end? Financially they were left in a terrible place once they went down! Clubs don't plan to go down. They sign older guys who obviously ask for more money than a U23 player and still get paid that once they are relegated. Martin Petrov comes to mind

 

[moomba]

Would you rather your club be run like Southampton/Swansea or Newcastle/Sunderland?

Loaded question really. Much of it depends on the quality of the players coming out of the academy, on that note Southampton is head and shoulders over the other.

Their squad policy is as a result of the quality of their academy, but I wouldn't want Newcastle or Sunderland to do the same as Southampton id the quality of the players in their academy isn't good enough.

If you've got the players coming through, use them. If you don't have the players coming through you need to look elsewhere.

 

[moomba]

And how did that go for them in the end? Financially they were left in a terrible place once they went down! Clubs don't plan to go down. They sign older guys who obviously ask for more money than a U23 player and still get paid that once they are relegated. Martin Petrov comes to mind

How would have it gone if they stuck a load of garbage academy kids like Nicky Hunt in their side? Probably non league by now.

 

[jd2010]

Loaded question really. Much of it depends on the quality of the players coming out of the academy, on that note Southampton is head and shoulders over the other.

Their squad policy is as a result of the quality of their academy, but I wouldn't want Newcastle or Sunderland to do the same as Southampton id the quality of the players in their academy isn't good enough.

If you've got the players coming through, use them. If you don't have the players coming through you need to look elsewhere.

This isn't a right now sort of prospect. Would you rather be a Newcastle/Sunderland supporter going forward with the same practices as now, or would you like to see an overhaul of things and move forward in another direction?

In five years time Sunderland will keep flirting with relegation until they're eventually caught up and then that's the PL done for some time. Or they could concentrate on youth development and maybe go down sooner with a rise back up beyond what they've been able to achieve for quite some time. Watch Fulham benefit from Kit Symons youth policy going forward rather than throwing band aids on things like they did with Magath