The on topic thread

[jd2010]

Sounds like jod is a Liverpool supporter and not a football supporter. Which is fair enough. I know myself I even struggle watching non Spurs EPL games or early stages of the CL because I've got no real interest in the teams involved. Same too for the WC when Australia or England aren't involved.

All that being said I have given it a go to "manufacture" some support for Heart/City and I do somewhat care how they go. I'll watch games when it suits me. And this season thankfully they've also been a joy to watch. But there's no way I'd watch two random a league sides play in a non-finals match

 

[SM]

It's not about giving it a chance or not. I just have no interest in it. I dont have any interest in Baseball either so dont follow any form of that. I dont have any interest in the A-League because it's a subpar league full of average players.

That's just how it is.

You have no interest because you have no interest. Ok.

 

[SM]

Sydney's striker last season is now having a very successful season with Basel, jedinak went from ccm to the premier league in two years. A player who captained a premier league side and scored 5 goals in his final season came to the A-League and struggled. A player currently in the A-League is seen as one of Australia's best. A keeper went from the A-League to starting for Valencia in only two years. Etc. Etc.

Sad some won't support the local product because of preconceptions or not instantly and completely loving a team, and can't appreciate good football for what it is.

 

[FAITH]

Sounds like jod is a Liverpool supporter and not a football supporter. Which is fair enough. I know myself I even struggle watching non Spurs EPL games or early stages of the CL because I've got no real interest in the teams involved. Same too for the WC when Australia or England aren't involved.

All that being said I have given it a go to "manufacture" some support for Heart/City and I do somewhat care how they go. I'll watch games when it suits me. And this season thankfully they've also been a joy to watch. But there's no way I'd watch two random a league sides play in a non-finals match

fair enough. im probably the opposite i was a football supporter before i was a lfc supporter, which is probably why i like to talk a lot about non-lfc issues.
if lfc cease to exist id still luv football just as much.

 

[SM]

Im hoping in the next year or so the A-League expands to 12, and the mention of promotion relegation is being mentioned with a lot of state sides getting more interest with the national premier league cup or whatever it is, as well as the FFA Cup. One suggestion that's been had is having a play off final for the promotion spot between the top three in the second division and bottom of the A-League with the final to replace the current grand final format to put more weight on finishing top but still getting an exciting final.

 

[Zidane98]

Im hoping in the next year or so the A-League expands to 12, and the mention of promotion relegation is being mentioned with a lot of state sides getting more interest with the national premier league cup or whatever it is, as well as the FFA Cup. One suggestion that's been had is having a play off final for the promotion spot between the top three in the second division and bottom of the A-League with the final to replace the current grand final format to put more weight on finishing top but still getting an exciting final.

I'm not sure on expansion at this stage. I am all for expanding the league but only after the current 10 teams are well and truly entrenched.


Relegation & promotion would be fantastic but not sure how fans would react to relegated teams. They may just stop going altogether. Perhaps expand the FFA Cup to include teams from NZ.

 

[FAITH]

relegation wont work yet.
give it another decade imo

 

[Buckleys Jocks]

I grew up with the Wildcats though.

So the only difference between the situations here with Glory and the Wildcats is that you actually gave the Wildcats a chance. I think you've made your lack of interest in the HAL well and truly clear so I respect that, this shit can't be forced and your passion lies elsewhere, that's fine.

However rubbishing the league with cheap statements like "it's full of average standard players" or your way off negative assumptions on the tactical standard of the league is just so unnecessary. There isn't a rule that says you have to support local football, just be open about it and say you've got your team and that's enough for you, there's no need to rubbish the game when you're not even watching. This whole thing about not being able to stomach poor quality games, poorer quality players and negative tactical setups is such a cop out when you blatantly don't follow the league and have no intention of ever giving it a chance.

The fact you can follow an NBL team as well as an NBA team shows that the quality isn't an impossible hurdle for you once you're emotionally invested. You have no such investment here and have no desire to change that, no one could reasonably have any issue with that. However SM and WC have a point, this sort of "Euro snob" dismissive attitude towards the League is born out of stigma and assumption and it is so cancerous to the game as it is so easy to buy into and mindlessly recycle when you've got no intention of ever seeing if you might be wrong. You don't want to form an attachment to a team which is fine but I hope you take WC's advice and check out the occasional HAL game on TV, you might just be surprised with what you see.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Down with the Vixens. Fever forever!!

#zero****s

Boy, you're treading on a very thin line there, I suggest you watch your step!


In regards to the A-League, I do like the A-League, especially with the Victory and when John Aloisi came back (I was really conflicted when he joined Sydney, meaning I hope he scored a lot of goals, but hoped Sydney lost). It seemed like I finally chose a Melbourne team with the Heart/City once Aloisi went there. Of course, with how things have gone, I'm just kinda in the bubble where I want both Melbourne teams to do well, but if forced to choose one, I'd find it really difficult. I'd also go on record to say that I would favour any Victorian team over any interstate team, but again I'll find it difficult to commit to the one team, well, at this point.


As for the potential promotion/relegation, I view that as a big positive. There is a lot of history in the former clubs, and I think what the FFA cup is doing with them is an idea I'm 100% behind. I think there is some serious potential in mixing the Aussie way with some classic Euro action. Of course, there are still some question marks on how the relegation should be handled (do you pick the best of the 2nd tier teams? Do you have a playoff between the best of the state? Should it be direct, or actually have a playoff?)

Of course, at this point, I think stability to further establish the teams would be a good idea before we can even think about that. Then I think we could seriously consider it. Who knows? Maybe down the road you come upon a natural extension of the league and actually force teams to lift their standards, along with those of the 2nd tier. At the moment, my biggest bugbear about the A-League is the 6-team final series... I mean, really? 6 out of 10? You've got to give some serious value to the final series, because all it takes a well in form 6th place team (and with the A-League, the gaps are quite small) to take it all. You need to have a bigger reward (yeah alright, there is an ACL place for first, but that's not enough for domestic glory.)

To be honest, I rate the A-League a lot more than I do the MLS, and I mean a lot more. I think the A-League is developing a very respectable reputation for itself, but more does need to be done.

 

[Benno_900]

Demarai Gray

 

[SM]

I'm not sure on expansion at this stage. I am all for expanding the league but only after the current 10 teams are well and truly entrenched.


Relegation & promotion would be fantastic but not sure how fans would react to relegated teams. They may just stop going altogether. Perhaps expand the FFA Cup to include teams from NZ.

That's why I think the state league needs to get to a higher standard, which the FFA Cup is helping with. It's a bit Catch 22 though, we'll get better TV deals when there's more interest in all games, and there won't be interest in all games until relegation comes in, but teams won't survive relegation without more money in the game.

I think the current 10 sides are pretty well entrenched, apart from jets and mariners who could merge for all I care, but sides in Canberra and Geelong would be useful.

 

[jd2010]

No a league side would survive relegation. At least not for the foreseeable future. If city or victory went down and south Melbourne went up that'd be the death of them

 

[SM]

So the only difference between the situations here with Glory and the Wildcats is that you actually gave the Wildcats a chance. I think you've made your lack of interest in the HAL well and truly clear so I respect that, this shit can't be forced and your passion lies elsewhere, that's fine.

However rubbishing the league with cheap statements like "it's full of average standard players" or your way off negative assumptions on the tactical standard of the league is just so unnecessary. There isn't a rule that says you have to support local football, just be open about it and say you've got your team and that's enough for you, there's no need to rubbish the game when you're not even watching. This whole thing about not being able to stomach poor quality games, poorer quality players and negative tactical setups is such a cop out when you blatantly don't follow the league and have no intention of ever giving it a chance.

The fact you can follow an NBL team as well as an NBA team shows that the quality isn't an impossible hurdle for you once you're emotionally invested. You have no such investment here and have no desire to change that, no one could reasonably have any issue with that. However SM and WC have a point, this sort of "Euro snob" dismissive attitude towards the League is born out of stigma and assumption and it is so cancerous to the game as it is so easy to buy into and mindlessly recycle when you've got no intention of ever seeing if you might be wrong. You don't want to form an attachment to a team which is fine but I hope you take WC's advice and check out the occasional HAL game on TV, you might just be surprised with what you see.

This. Jod wonders why people get so worked up with him and it's because he's just so casually disrespectful of things he doesn't know anything about. Nail on the head.

 

[SM]

No a league side would survive relegation. At least not for the foreseeable future. If city or victory went down and south Melbourne went up that'd be the death of them

Yeah it's a fine line I think. Issue is most football supporters here back the big epl clubs so even though relegation is part of that culture, the fans here don't really get it.

I think you're understating the level of support victory has though. Same with wsw and Sydney fc, I think they have a lot of rusted on fans.

I think the first step is getting the number of teams steadily up to 20, by bringing in the top performing state clubs through a "promotion" system with no relegation, say 2 every 5 years. Get to 20 and try and get good TV rights, then split into 10 and 10 the following season with promotion relegation between them. That might be the way to go.

 

[jd2010]

Yeah it's a fine line I think. Issue is most football supporters here back the big epl clubs so even though relegation is part of that culture, the fans here don't really get it.

I think you're understating the level of support victory has though. Same with wsw and Sydney fc, I think they have a lot of rusted on fans.

I think the first step is getting the number of teams steadily up to 20, by bringing in the top performing state clubs through a "promotion" system with no relegation, say 2 every 5 years. Get to 20 and try and get good TV rights, then split into 10 and 10 the following season with promotion relegation between them. That might be the way to go.

Provlem is though a large portion of the Melbourne and Sydney supporter base have an affiliation to a state league club. So if they were playing top div over an a league side they'd defect back in an instant. Could also see the second div take support away from the top div. for instance if south melb played in a proper second div that had promotion to the top league a lot of people would watch them over the top division local counterpart. So whilst it'd be a bigger talent pool with increased sides playing a better level of football, it'd be diluting the support away from the top division

 

[SM]

Provlem is though a large portion of the Melbourne and Sydney supporter base have an affiliation to a state league club. So if they were playing top div over an a league side they'd defect back in an instant. Could also see the second div take support away from the top div. for instance if south melb played in a proper second div that had promotion to the top league a lot of people would watch them over the top division local counterpart. So whilst it'd be a bigger talent pool with increased sides playing a better level of football, it'd be diluting the support away from the top division

That's why I suggested the alternative, adding state sides to the A-League gradually, then implement a relegation/promotion system out of the resulting 20 sides.

 

[jd2010]

That's why I suggested the alternative, adding state sides to the A-League gradually, then implement a relegation/promotion system out of the resulting 20 sides.

Yeah a slow build up to say 12 then 14-16 then up to 20 across two divisions of 10 is the only way it can work.

Will be a few tv deals away from happening though. A second division Perth side being able to fund itself playing on the eastern states or NZ is probably barely doable in our life time

 

[jod23]

You have no interest because you have no interest. Ok.

Correct. Seems pretty straight forward.

 

[SM]

Correct. Seems pretty straight forward.

It's circular logic which is the whole issue I raised with it.

 

[jod23]

So the only difference between the situations here with Glory and the Wildcats is that you actually gave the Wildcats a chance. I think you've made your lack of interest in the HAL well and truly clear so I respect that, this shit can't be forced and your passion lies elsewhere, that's fine.

However rubbishing the league with cheap statements like "it's full of average standard players" or your way off negative assumptions on the tactical standard of the league is just so unnecessary. There isn't a rule that says you have to support local football, just be open about it and say you've got your team and that's enough for you, there's no need to rubbish the game when you're not even watching. This whole thing about not being able to stomach poor quality games, poorer quality players and negative tactical setups is such a cop out when you blatantly don't follow the league and have no intention of ever giving it a chance.

The fact you can follow an NBL team as well as an NBA team shows that the quality isn't an impossible hurdle for you once you're emotionally invested. You have no such investment here and have no desire to change that, no one could reasonably have any issue with that. However SM and WC have a point, this sort of "Euro snob" dismissive attitude towards the League is born out of stigma and assumption and it is so cancerous to the game as it is so easy to buy into and mindlessly recycle when you've got no intention of ever seeing if you might be wrong. You don't want to form an attachment to a team which is fine but I hope you take WC's advice and check out the occasional HAL game on TV, you might just be surprised with what you see.

I dont know if I gave the Wildcats a chance. I just loved basketball from an early age. My parents took me to games. It was forced upon me and I took a liking to it. So now after so many years, I do have an emotional investement in the Wildcats. It's not huge, and I dont watch every game but I want them to do well and keep an eye on them and watch when I can.

The quality of the NBL does shit me though, it's a large downgrade from the NBA and it makes it harder to watch and I dont really watch other NBL games, just Wildcats games.

Im also not rubbishing the A-League. Im just telling some truths. On a scale of great fooballers to poor ones. The A-League is generally filled with average players as all the above average players play in better leagues. That's not me rubbishing the league, that's just true.

But anyways. Not sure why everyone is trying to get on my back about not liking the A-League. You guys cant force me to like something haha.

 

[jod23]

It's circular logic which is the whole issue I raised with it.

All good then.

 

[jod23]

This. Jod wonders why people get so worked up with him and it's because he's just so casually disrespectful of things he doesn't know anything about. Nail on the head.

Lol. Take you personal agenda elsewhere you muppet.

 

[kangaspurs]

Im hoping in the next year or so the A-League expands to 12, and the mention of promotion relegation is being mentioned with a lot of state sides getting more interest with the national premier league cup or whatever it is, as well as the FFA Cup. One suggestion that's been had is having a play off final for the promotion spot between the top three in the second division and bottom of the A-League with the final to replace the current grand final format to put more weight on finishing top but still getting an exciting final.

I don't think promotion/relegation is a viable option for professional football in Australia yet but hopefully we get there. I completely agree on the expansion though, I think a 12 team competition with a 33 game League season is perfect for Australia's population and also makes a 6 team finals series make sense. Until we implement promotion/relegation I think the finals have to stay so that we don't have as many dead rubbers later in the season.

I get that jod has no interest in the A-League and that's fine. My problem is with him saying that he's barely seen a game and can't name a single player but then claims that the league is of a poor standard with poor players who all effectively play a hoof ball style, I mean how would you know that if you barely watch the league? Unfortunately this type of attitude is prevalent in many Euro-centric football fans who have never seen the A-League but just assume it's bad because it's Australian; it's an awful cultural cringe. People who watch A-League know that those claims are well wide of the mark.

It's interesting that the A-League has apparently been shown a lot more in England recently and apparently it's been getting a very positive reception because of the high tempo and the amount of goals scored. Apparently a lot of Brits bet on the league and as a by-product of that they've found it to be at a surprising standard. Daniel Garb has talked about this before and there was another journo who's name I can't recall that was surprised at the coverage of the A-League when he was over in the UK. It's also interesting that many people who have played in both countries say that the standard of the A-League is quite good: I seem to remember a couple of people (one of whom I think was Michael Bridges) saying that the really good Brisbane side of a few years ago would have been very competitive in the Championship.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the 'sub-standard' players in the A-League:

 

[Magma]

looks like fans are making it pretty clear they're not going to put up with extortion.

 

[SM]

Lol. Take you personal agenda elsewhere you muppet.

It's not a personal agenda, or are you again ignoring the multitude of people taking offence/annoyance with what you're saying? It really is sad how often you descend to personal insults when you box yourself into a corner. Sometimes it is ok to just admit you don't know what you're talking about.