The on topic thread

[moomba]

Hopefully Melbourne City put the money into an academy to try and develop talent. moomba do city have an academy setup in Melbourne?

I think it's more partnerships with junior clubs and colleges at this stage. But full blown academy is part of the plans for all of the clubs I think.

There is facilities for the underage teams at CFA Melbourne but I think a proper set up might be part of the second phase.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Which ones? Educate me.

The ones which try to ensure the competition isn't threatened by clubs over-spending. Or maybe you are unaware of the reasons the A-League were set up? You've obviously been around since '01 so I assume you know fully well that situation and are just playing dumb?

It strikes me that your playing dumb on this is an indication of how sensitive you are on the issue. This is unsurprising since I told you ages ago that City would use its various clubs in dodgy ways and you acted like it was a crazy suggestion, only to see history prove you wrong again and again.

 

[moomba]

The ones which try to ensure the competition isn't threatened by clubs over-spending. Or maybe you are unaware of the reasons the A-League were set up? You've obviously been around since '01 so I assume you know fully well that situation and are just playing dumb?

It strikes me that your playing dumb on this is an indication of how sensitive you are on the issue. This is unsurprising since I told you ages ago that City would use its various clubs in dodgy ways and you acted like it was a crazy suggestion, only to see history prove you wrong again and again.

So that's a no, you're not aware of any rule that's in any way relevant. If you could come up with one it would be worth talking about. But your suspicion on this deal seems to revolve around the fact that it's Man City and Melbourne City, therefore it must be dodgy. Sorry, you need a bit more than that.

The salary cap still applies so Melbourne City gets no benefit there. There is no restriction on how much you can spend on marquees or any requirement that says you can't make a financial loss. So this has no effect there. Why would we pay money for Mooy to allow Melbourne City to spend more when we could just hand over a cheque instead?

Your suggestion ages ago that the only reason Man City bought into Melbourne City was to get around the rules, specifically FFP, has not been proven right once. And when you think about it, it's a bit fanciful to suggest that CFG would spend tens of millions on a club, further millions on a new training facility, and hundreds of millions buying clubs all around the world on the off chance we could save a few hundred thousand here or a few hundred thousand through dodgy deals is crazy.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

So that's a no, you're not aware of any rule that's in any way relevant. If you could come up with one it would be worth talking about. But your suspicion on this deal seems to revolve around the fact that it's Man City and Melbourne City, therefore it must be dodgy. Sorry, you need a bit more than that.

The salary cap still applies so Melbourne City gets no benefit there. There is no restriction on how much you can spend on marquees or any requirement that says you can't make a financial loss. So this has no effect there. Why would we pay money for Mooy to allow Melbourne City to spend more when we could just hand over a cheque instead?

Your suggestion ages ago that the only reason Man City bought into Melbourne City was to get around the rules, specifically FFP, has not been proven right once. And when you think about it, it's a bit fanciful to suggest that CFG would spend tens of millions on a club, further millions on a new training facility, and hundreds of millions buying clubs all around the world on the off chance we could save a few hundred thousand here or a few hundred thousand through dodgy deals is crazy.

It is a rule of being an A-League club. Do you want to drive into FFV and dig into their financial records and ask to see some contracts? You burke.

As you are seemingly unaware, I will tell you. Soccer wasn't very healthy before the A-League and the A-League itself was always a gamble in terms of expenditure. It continues to wobble around here and there and try and find sound footing. As most people are aware a club locking itself into large expenditure when the future is unclear or when an owner could up and leave is highly risky. The A-League is very sensitive to this risk and wants to limit it, which is why a club like Melbourne Victory can generally spend more as they have the members and revenue to make it balance out.

And you can use bold all you like, but it doesn't make it true.

 

[moomba]

What I will say is that if there isn't an A League rule about that thing that Brattan has on his head there bloody well should be. Points deduction is not harsh at all.

 

[Doctor Bojan_]

A-League board.........

 

[moomba]

It is a rule of being an A-League club. Do you want to drive into FFV and dig into their financial records and ask to see some contracts? You burke.

What rule? It's not too hard a question.

And why would we go through a process of signing Mooy to give Melbourne City more to spend when:

a) they can't spend any more on the wages of their salary capped players as a result
b) they are not restricted on what they can spend on marquee players or transfer fees

We could give them a blank cheque and achieve the same result. In fact CFG could give them the blank cheque and Mooy's transfer fee wouldn't go down as an amortised loss on MCFC's books.

You've made the accusation, but you can't back it up in any way.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

What rule? It's not too hard a question.

And why would we go through a process of signing Mooy to give Melbourne City more to spend when:

a) they can't spend any more on the wages of their salary capped players as a result
b) they are not restricted on what they can spend on marquee players or transfer fees

We could give them a blank cheque and achieve the same result. In fact CFG could give them the blank cheque and Mooy's transfer fee wouldn't go down as an amortised loss on MCFC's books.

You've made the accusation, but you can't back it up in any way.

I already have. You are hung up on 'naming' a rule, while quite conspicuously not suggesting such rules aren't in place. Dr Bojan isn't keen on this chat so there's no need to go back and forth on nothing, but you dot points make SFA sense since you say 'why go through the rigamarole of getting more to spend if you (a) can't spend more and (b) can spend more.' Pssst, it's the second one... You have to show you have a working club making real revenues. Just because FFP has seemingly fallen away in regards to UEFA doesn't mean the A League is not highly sensitive to club's being legit. Gold Coast. Central Coast.

 

[moomba]

I already have. You are hung up on 'naming' a rule, while quite conspicuously not suggesting such rules aren't in place. Dr Bojan isn't keen on this chat so there's no need to go back and forth on nothing, but you dot points make SFA sense since you say 'why go through the rigamarole of getting more to spend if you (a) can't spend more and (b) can spend more.' Pssst, it's the second one... You have to show you have a working club making real revenues. Just because FFP has seemingly fallen away in regards to UEFA doesn't mean the A League is not highly sensitive to club's being legit. Gold Coast. Central Coast.

Which rule number is that?

And I'm quite happy to suggest there is no rule in place that stops Manchester City from making a transfer offer for a Melbourne City player, or that stops Melbourne City from accepting such an offer.

You're total argument is "it's Manchester City, therefore it's against the rules, or the vibe because I can't think of any rules".

 

[Magma]

well since mooy made it quite clear he was always going to leave melbourne city, what have we done wrong this time?

 

[moomba]

well since mooy made it quite clear he was always going to leave melbourne city, what have we done wrong this time?

We broke FFA vibe no. 23a and FIFA vibe no. 16c.

 

[Magma]

We broke FFA vibe no 23a

is that the one that relates to spilt milk and same old accusations?

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Just as long as you make each other feel better.

 

[moomba]

Just as long as you make each other feel better.

Perhaps we can invent some rules so we can whine about other clubs breaking them to make ourselves feel better too.

 

[Magma]

what were we upset about?

i dont need to make myself feel better.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

A-League board.........

Nah this is the right spot.

Shitfights board...

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

what were we upset about?

i dont need to make myself feel better.

We were discussing why Mooy would go to Man City because everyone apparently thinks he won't play for them. I said if he doesn't get a go, then it's an odd approach (he's 25 years old, after all), but the claim was that he is taking advantage of their contacts. Which doesn't make sense because he could do that without them buying him. Given everyone was suggesting he wouldn't play I suggested that maybe the idea is just to have an excuse to chuck cash at Melb City so their overall books look better and therefore when they spend lots of money on marquees the FA won't be concerned by the mismatch between operating costs/revenue and whatever else Melb City was spending on top of it. Since Mooy was going to go anyway, as you say, this gives them some cash in for no particular reason. Or alternatively it could be the sweet pay-out he gets for having left Wanderers for Melbourne, without the club having to have his marquee pay rates at a much higher level, or without him being tempted to go to other clubs overseas at that time (knowing that he had the City deal coming up 2 years later). Or it could be as simple as no-one being keen to spend much money on him, so Man City buys him and can then loan him out at full pay until he has proven himself and then the group gets paid; or until he decides to come home and they still have control of him because it's the same owners. There really are so many ways they can get around things with their multiple club ownerships. But moomba was being a twat and insisting that a name or number be applied to the FFA's highly controlling approach, particularly when it comes to club finances.

 

[Magma]

maybe, could be, etc etc

 

[moomba]

 

[Doctor Bojan_]

I don't want to get into this shitfight but is there much of a difference between Mooy being loaned from Melb City as opposed to Man City? Wouldn't the same kinds of connections be used? Or is it a salary cap thingo for loans out of the A-league.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I don't want to get into this shitfight but is there much of a difference between Mooy being loaned from Melb City as opposed to Man City? Wouldn't the same kinds of connections be used? Or is it a salary cap thingo for loans out of the A-league.

It would be a huge impact on Melb City if the loan was ended short. He's a marquee player and you're only allowed two at a time. This way they can plan ahead, and deal with some, ah, interesting comments in a year if they decide to loan him back to Melb City on 50% pay so he fits in to a non-marquee spot.

I would like to think the most believable story is Man City actually plan on playing him, but I guess I have green and gold tinted glasses on. He has tried Europe before so it's highly odd that a 25 y.o. would be bought to go out on loan with no real prospects of him ever playing for the club.

 

[moomba]

I don't want to get into this shitfight but is there much of a difference between Mooy being loaned from Melb City as opposed to Man City? Wouldn't the same kinds of connections be used? Or is it a salary cap thingo for loans out of the A-league.

For any loan you have a good 2/3 months where you return back to you parent club. Presume that would have to go under Melbourne City's salary cap even though he wasn't playing for them. I think we're all presuming that Mooy will be loaned out year on year until the end of his contract or he's sold, but it may even be that we want to see how he goes over here with a view to eventually having him in the squad. Is a home grown player I think from his time at Bolton.

 

[moomba]

Some good stuff here.

http://www.football365.com/news/mediawatch-stop-the-sterling-hate-campaign

Sterling aside I particularly liked this line on Vardy.

Because ‘man walks up to his own front door while someone stands outside his house with a camera’ doesn’t quite evoke enough revulsion.

 

[moomba]

It would be a huge impact on Melb City if the loan was ended short. He's a marquee player and you're only allowed two at a time. This way they can plan ahead, and deal with some, ah, interesting comments in a year if they decide to loan him back to Melb City on 50% pay so he fits in to a non-marquee spot.

That would be against FFA rules. 100% of his Man City salary would need to be included in the salary cap.

You're welcome

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

That would be against FFA rules. 100% of his Man City salary would need to be included in the salary cap.

You're welcome

What name and rule number is that?

And you would be right, for any other club. But City could just need to structure his contract so that the contracted salary was technically 50% of what it is now and give him a chunk of change another way - say by way of a signing-on bonus for leaving Melb City to go to Man City. For example. Or relocation fees or five as he moves from Melbourne to Manchester to somewhere to Manchester to Melbourne. So many loopholes...

EDIT: And while I'm dealing with older contentious issues. Woy's replacements from favourite to 25/1:
Southgate, Redknapp, Shearer, Howe, Hoddle, Neville, Pardew, Allardyce, Guus, Blanc, Wenger