The on topic thread

[jd2010]

The 6 markets they've entered since 2012

LA - team 2 in the city 8m people
NY - team 2 in the city 8m people
Atlanta - 472k population
Minneapolis - 413k population
Orlando - 270k population
Montreal - 1.7m population

We just don't have the markets of that size to easily grow into. Without population and business it's hard to set up a professional club who can stay afloat.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

 

[SM]

The 6 markets they've entered since 2012

LA - team 2 in the city 8m people
NY - team 2 in the city 8m people
Atlanta - 472k population
Minneapolis - 413k population
Orlando - 270k population
Montreal - 1.7m population

We just don't have the markets of that size to easily grow into. Without population and business it's hard to set up a professional club who can stay afloat.

Think you're missing the point mate.

 

[jd2010]

Think you're missing the point mate.

Nah I agree that more teams creates a better comp. But I also think you need the markets to be sustainable. The us is a goldmine of cities and states that can sustain sports teams

 

[SM]

Nah I agree that more teams creates a better comp. But I also think you need the markets to be sustainable. The us is a goldmine of cities and states that can sustain sports teams

More teams improves the average attendance which was the point you fundamentally disagreed with me about haha.

 

[jd2010]

More teams improves the average attendance which was the point you fundamentally disagreed with me about haha.

I only disagreed because we don't have the markets for them to into lol

If we had 400k+ populations without a side then I'd be well and truly behind it.

I also noticed they only entered second sides into markets with 8m people which is twice the size of Melbourne which got two sides sharing a stadium. Whereas they've split them across the regions similar to what we've done insydney

 

[Established1870]

If we had 400k+ populations without a side then I'd be well and truly behind it.

Tassie, ACT, South Melbourne, regional Victoria, Wollongong, NQ, Auckland?

I also noticed they only entered second sides into markets with 8m people which is twice the size of Melbourne which got two sides sharing a stadium. Whereas they've split them across the regions similar to what we've done insydney

Melbourne Heart/City IMO is the biggest **** up in terms of expansion in the A-League and that list has some strong contenders for that title.

 

[jd2010]

Tassie, ACT, South Melbourne, regional Victoria, Wollongong, NQ, Auckland?



Melbourne Heart/City IMO is the biggest **** up in terms of expansion in the A-League and that list has some strong contenders for that title.

Tassie - no single city has that population there
Canberra - almost
South Melbourne - already 2 sides splitting 4m in very close proximity
Regional Victoria - Geelong under 200k
Woolongong - close but under 300k
NQ - Townsville and Cairns both under 200k each
Auckland - yes

 

[Established1870]

Tassie - no single city has that population there
Canberra - almost
South Melbourne - already 2 sides splitting 4m in very close proximity
Regional Victoria - Geelong under 200k
Woolongong - close but under 300k
NQ - Townsville and Cairns both under 200k each
Auckland - yes

Tassie: Hurricanes prove that there is a market for summer sport. A proper Tassie side would get decent numbers.

Canberra: Factor in the surrounding areas and its 400-700k.

South Melbourne: Historic club in a football mad part of the city with a massive fan base considering its in the state league.

Regional Vic: Surrounding communities would get it around the 400k number. I could see this side being a more successful version of the Mariners.

Wollongong: Again, factor in surrounding areas and the population growth and this won't be an issue. Is also football mad (more so than any other possible expansion market).

NQ: They're the trickiest market for sure but the numbers are there to sustain a side (just look at the Cowboys) if they get another chance.

 

[moomba]

What the A League doesn't want is new lame duck clubs. No good creating new teams that will sit around the lower end of the table for years and struggle for crowds.

I think also you've got to look at the existing teams, most of those have a lot of work to do as well.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Tassie: Hurricanes prove that there is a market for summer sport. A proper Tassie side would get decent numbers.

Canberra: Factor in the surrounding areas and its 400-700k.

South Melbourne: Historic club in a football mad part of the city with a massive fan base considering its in the state league.

Regional Vic: Surrounding communities would get it around the 400k number. I could see this side being a more successful version of the Mariners.

Wollongong: Again, factor in surrounding areas and the population growth and this won't be an issue. Is also football mad (more so than any other possible expansion market).

NQ: They're the trickiest market for sure but the numbers are there to sustain a side (just look at the Cowboys) if they get another chance.

Said it a few pages back and it's still relevant now. Regional Vic has one option due to stadia, Geelong.
At present there is not continuous access to said stadia for the entirety of an A League season so presently not feasible.

 

[Established1870]

Said it a few pages back and it's still relevant now. Regional Vic has one option due to stadia, Geelong.
At present there is not continuous access to said stadia for the entirety of an A League season so presently not feasible.

I did see that, admittedly. Why is that? I would've assumed KP would be available for a summer sport side unless there's upgrading to the stadium.

 

[jd2010]

Tassie: Hurricanes prove that there is a market for summer sport. A proper Tassie side would get decent numbers.

Canberra: Factor in the surrounding areas and its 400-700k.

South Melbourne: Historic club in a football mad part of the city with a massive fan base considering its in the state league.

Regional Vic: Surrounding communities would get it around the 400k number. I could see this side being a more successful version of the Mariners.

Wollongong: Again, factor in surrounding areas and the population growth and this won't be an issue. Is also football mad (more so than any other possible expansion market).

NQ: They're the trickiest market for sure but the numbers are there to sustain a side (just look at the Cowboys) if they get another chance.

Are people in these "surrounding areas" actually going to travel an hour or more to watch an a league side?

Are people going to go from Horsham, Ballarat or Warnambool to Geelong? Doubt it. Would be lucky to get 200 from these surrounding areas. Same goes for tassie. Would depend on the passion for the game there. They've always been cricket mad so the Hurricanes have that leg up already

South Melbourne should have been Melbourne Heart. The city can't afford to have another team within 3km from the city that's for sure.

Woolongong is really not that far from the Sutherland shire so they could easily get extra population from outside the town. And like you say has a history of supporting the game.

NQ works for the Cowboys because that's the clear number one sport up there. They were a side that never should have come in and it's no surprise the fury failed. We won't see another side up there

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I did see that, admittedly. Why is that? I would've assumed KP would be available for a summer sport side unless there's upgrading to the stadium.

Firstly the club doesn't like anyone on the ground during season as football prefer shorter grass length than footy. That includes March-May.
They usually do maintenance September after local footy finals.
Play some BBL games in December-January and that's the preferred alternate sport as it's not interfering with football. Usually get some NRL/Super Rugby preseason games too.
The footy club is barely allowed on the ground all summer and does very little of preseason there, usually start in late January.

 

[Established1870]

Are people in these "surrounding areas" actually going to travel an hour or more to watch an a league side?

Are people going to go from Horsham, Ballarat or Warnambool to Geelong? Doubt it. Would be lucky to get 200 from these surrounding areas. Same goes for tassie. Would depend on the passion for the game there. They've always been cricket mad so the Hurricanes have that leg up already

South Melbourne should have been Melbourne Heart. The city can't afford to have another team within 3km from the city that's for sure.

Woolongong is really not that far from the Sutherland shire so they could easily get extra population from outside the town. And like you say has a history of supporting the game.

NQ works for the Cowboys because that's the clear number one sport up there. They were a side that never should have come in and it's no surprise the fury failed. We won't see another side up there

I think Tassie and Regional Vic would be tricky in terms of surrounding areas and getting people to travel but I do believe that there would be some in Tassie willing to make the travel. The world game is getting increasing numbers in the Apple Isle suprisingly enough.

Melbourne City will never grow the pie. It's too late to shut up shop but I still think South Melbourne is a worthwhile venture because I don't see them cannibalising support for City or Victory. They already have a big fan base as it is and their history and established identity will keep people from saying they're Heart 2.0.

I agree with you that Fury were a failure but their attendance figures weren't bad and they're working hard to build for another crack at the big time. Money is their main problem but again, it's being worked on. People don't think any code could work in NQ but the Cowboys and their NBL sides show otherwise. If they had proper backing, they'd be a more worthwhile prospect then CCM and Newcastle who at this stage are just wastes of money.

 

[Established1870]

Firstly the club doesn't like anyone on the ground during season as football prefer shorter grass length than footy. That includes March-May.
They usually do maintenance September after local footy finals.
Play some BBL games in December-January and that's the preferred alternate sport as it's not interfering with football. Usually get some NRL/Super Rugby preseason games too.
The footy club is barely allowed on the ground all summer and does very little of preseason there, usually start in late January.

Well that would reck a Geelong A-League side being feasible. Do you think if the Cats were involved with them that things might be different or would their be no potential for a ground share?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Well that would reck a Geelong A-League side being feasible. Do you think if the Cats were involved with them that things might be different or would their be no potential for a ground share?

They'd need to get $$$ out of it to allow it imo.
But other logistical reasons present.

There's an overlap in seasons as the A League ends in May.
As soon as footy season starts there's 4 sides that use the venue on weekends, and that at times does include night fixtures.

It'd also affect accessibility to the early FFA cup stages in August-September as well àny potential AFC Champions League participation (which is midweek when you have 3 sides training). Not saying it can never happen but atm there'd be so many logistical hurdles to jump.

 

[jd2010]

I think Tassie and Regional Vic would be tricky in terms of surrounding areas and getting people to travel but I do believe that there would be some in Tassie willing to make the travel. The world game is getting increasing numbers in the Apple Isle suprisingly enough.

Melbourne City will never grow the pie. It's too late to shut up shop but I still think South Melbourne is a worthwhile venture because I don't see them cannibalising support for City or Victory. They already have a big fan base as it is and their history and established identity will keep people from saying they're Heart 2.0.

I agree with you that Fury were a failure but their attendance figures weren't bad and they're working hard to build for another crack at the big time. Money is their main problem but again, it's being worked on. People don't think any code could work in NQ but the Cowboys and their NBL sides show otherwise. If they had proper backing, they'd be a more worthwhile prospect then CCM and Newcastle who at this stage are just wastes of money.

Any regional side with a heap of money behind them can work. But it's extremely difficult. CCM and Newcastle have both had on field success but it's hard to call their existence as major success stories for the FFA despite that.

On NQ and the NBL in general it's a lot easier to fill the arenas. Being a full or near full stadium makes a big difference to the look and feel of the game. So the Taipans getting 4-5k in a stadium that holds only 7k doesn't look too bad. But get that outside in a 10-15k seat stadium at the football and it'll look ordinary.

Lakeside Stadium is 5km away from AAMI Park. 3 sides within 5km of each other it's just overkill. Especially since the outer suburbs is where the kids are playing and families are. The ideal scenario would be Melbourne city being in the SE but that's no chance of happening. In fact their training base in Bundoora is in the NE

 

[jd2010]

They'd need to get $$$ out of it to allow it imo.
But other logistical reasons present.

There's an overlap in seasons as the A League ends in May.
As soon as footy season starts there's 4 sides that use the venue on weekends, and that at times does include night fixtures.

It'd also affect accessibility to the early FFA cup stages in August-September as well àny potential AFC Champions League participation (which is midweek when you have 3 sides training). Not saying it can never happen but atm there'd be so many logistical hurdles to jump.

Has there ever been talk of a small rectangle stadium being built in Geelong?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Has there ever been talk of a small rectangle stadium being built in Geelong?

Hahaha we've spent the last two years without elected councillors whilst being run by a state provided administrator.
Few higher priority items than a boutique football rectangle.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

 

[Van_Dyke]

I like the idea of a Perth team more so that we can have the late Saturday game become a permanent fixture, not sure on the stats but surely when there's a half-decent PL game at 11.30 and a 10pm A-League game, viewership must be decent for the A-League game.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a 2nd Perth team, especially with both teams getting decent support, but in reality that's years off, if ever, from making sense on and off the field.

 

[typeclub]

Both Melbourne clubs are boring with no identity. I have zero interest until SM are in.

 

[Jatz]

Why would that matter? Still on FTA.

Not always it isn't. If the early PL game isn't the weekly SBS game how many people would still tune in to just watch a Perth game?

 

[Jatz]

Did you see the TV ratings for the derby SM ?


Two women's cricket games absolutely killed the Sydney Derby. The A League's problem is far bigger than adding new teams. People don't even care to watch the 'big' derbies that currently exist.