Competitions The Pieman 2021 - with a difference!

Remove this Banner Ad

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
21,888
33,572
Canberra
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Arsenal
The Pieman is back for its 10th year in 2021. And with a difference.

In some of the nine years it has been running there has been a player who has surprised us all by getting games and kicking goals on a regular basis (eg Gowers, Vandermeer, Cordy). In those years the competition became very lopsided. The few who picked the bolter in the pre-season had the competition to themselves while the rest of us just looked on in frustration, hoping to salvage the odd Kelvin or two from the season.

Well not any more! When Bevo swings his next surprise selection we’ll be ready for him.

Also one of the perils of picking a team for the year was the possibility of losing players from your team due to long term injury, omission from the seniors, suspension or retirement. This misfortune used to leave many of us with a diminished team in some games, sometimes with no players at all! There was only one chance to correct this – the mid-season trade period. However by then it was often too late.

This problem has also been addressed in the new Pieman format.

Here's a summary of the changes:

  • You can pick new players - or even an entire new team - every week
  • The handicaps are revised according to form each week so there is no chance of anyone locking in a bolter with a huge handicap for the entire season
  • There is no banker any more
  • Instead of a banker you have the option to double up or even triple up on one of your players, however doubling up uses two of your five selections (and tripling up uses three selections). You can do this every week if you want.
  • If you don’t want to change your picks each week (or if you forget to make your selections) you just leave them as they are – you will simply get last week’s picks. No need to post anything.
  • In the event that one of last week’s players isn’t playing this week you will get a substitute player. The same applies if there is a late withdrawal of any of your selected players
  • Because you will have all of your selections playing each week we are reverting to five players in each team - not the “best 4 out of 6" that we’ve had for the last few years
  • As you are given the option to trade players every week there is no need for the Pieman mid-season trade period
  • There is a 20 point bonus if you pick five different players for a match (ie no double-ups or triple-ups) and each of them kicks at least one goal.
The aim of these changes has been to give everyone the chance to stay competitive for much longer in the season. It should eliminate regular blowout scores from the same team. So interest should be maintained and it should be a much closer and less predictable competition. It also takes out some of the element of luck. It should have the effect of simplifying the competition. And you don't lose out if you forget to to pick a team any week - you will automatically get the players you had last week.

The next three posts (placemarked) will provide the Pieman history, the 2021 rules and the handicaps for Round 1. I'll put them up in the next 24 hours or so.

As soon as the handicaps have been posted you can put in your entry.

Anyone can join any time!
:footy:
 
Last edited:

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
21,888
33,572
Canberra
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Arsenal
PIEMAN HISTORY AND PAST WINNERS

As nearly everybody would know by now the Pieman is named after the great Footscray (Bulldogs) great full forward of the 1990s Simon "The Pieman" Beasley.

He has kicked more goals for the club (575) than any other player. While Kelvin Templeton's 15 goals against St Kilda is the most in any one game Simon Beasley has the next four best game tallies (3 x 12 goals and 1 x 11). He won the club goalkicking award for 7 consecutive years from 1982 to 1988 and he won the Coleman Medal with 93 goals in H&A games in 1985 in an era of great full forwards. He went on to kick 105 goals that year because he kicked another 12 in the finals. He debuted as a mature player from WA, aged 25 and retired at the age of 32 after 154 games.

1615627081161.png


Kelvin Templeton is no less decorated but in different ways. He won the club goalkicking 5 times (1976-1980), kicked 15 in a game (1978), kicked 118 in a season (1978) the most by any Bulldog player. By the time he transferred to Melbourne late in his injury-shortened career he had kicked a club record of 494. It's still the fourth highest for the club behind Beasley, Brad Johnson and Chris Grant. Templeton was also a club captain (1982), a club best and fairest (1980) and a Brownlow Medallist (1980). He played 143 games for the Bulldogs and managed only another 34 games and 99 goals for Melbourne before retiring at the age of 28.

1615627829899.png


So we've named the weekly highest score in the Pieman competition "The Kelvin" in his honour.

The Pieman Honour Roll
Here is the list of winners since we started in 2012. You used to get a pie 'n sauce badge under your avatar if you won the Pieman but I'm not sure that happens any more. I had one for a while but somewhere along the line it disappeared. Is that something we could re-introduce mods?

Nobody has won it twice yet. Could this be the year? I think all of those people are still active on this board.
 
Last edited:

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
21,888
33,572
Canberra
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Arsenal
PIEMAN 2021 RULES

A. How to Enter
  1. Anyone on BF can enter, even people from other boards (as long as they don't win!)
  2. You enter by making 5 selections of Western Bulldogs players in the Pieman 2021 thread.
  3. Those 5 selections can be five different players, or you can pick the same player as many as three times (no more than that though). So the legitimate combinations are 5x1, 2+1+1+1, 2+2+1, 3+1+1 and 3+2.
  4. Entries must be lodged in the designated Pieman thread by match start time.
  5. You may change your entry but you must do it with a new post, not by amending your original post. It’s too hard to track whether an entry is legit if I allow edits. It also makes the admin harder.
  6. [EDIT 17/3/21] Late in the season (let's say after Rd 16) you may choose to PM your selections to me instead of posting them here. They still need to be PMd by match start time of course. That way your selections remain secret until after the game starts. It means that others can't match your selections to stay in front if it's neck and neck in the comp. (Not that anyone here would try to do that!)
B. How Your Score is Calculated and How Winners are Decided
  1. Players are allocated a handicap. The more likely the player is to score a goal the lower his handicap. The handicaps are revised according to form and team selections every week and published in the Pieman 2021 thread.
  2. Handicaps will be published early in the week to give you a chance to contemplate this week's entry but the handicaps will be provisional until the WB team is announced. The handicap list will be culled and handicaps finalised after that announcement. While the aim is not to change any of the provisional handicaps I do reserve the right to adjust any handicap immediately after team selection (mainly if there are some selection surprises affecting our forwards). I'll post a message here if I do make any changes.
  3. Players listed as emergencies will also be given a handicap in case they become a late inclusion.
  4. You score Pieman points every time one of your players kicks a goal. The number of points you get is equal to the player’s handicap value for that game. So for example if you have Josh Bruce and at the end of the game (with a hypothetical handicap of 13) he has kicked 4 goals then you will get 52 points. However if you had him doubled up you get 104 points, or 156 points if you tripled up.
  5. Your weekly Pieman score is the sum of Pieman points accumulated by all 5 of your players in that game, plus any bonus points earned (see below).
  6. A bonus of 20 points is awarded if you have five different players and each of them kicks at least one goal. To be quite clear: you are NOT eligible for the bonus if your five picks include any player more than once.
  7. The entry with the most Pieman Points for the week is the winner of the Kelvin for that week.
  8. The entry with the most Pieman Points accumulated over the entire season including any finals is the winner of the Pieman for the year.
  9. If two entries have the same number of total points there is no tie-breaker for the Kelvin or the Pieman. The award is shared.
C. Anomalies - Forgotten Entries, Set & Forget Entries, Substitutes, Forgotten Handicaps
  1. If you don’t put a new entry in for any given game you automatically get your five picks from the previous game. This is called your default team. This allows you to operate your entry as a “Set&Forget” if you don’t want to post a new team every week. It also covers you if you genuinely forget to enter your team before the first bounce.
  2. If you do opt for the set-and-forget approach it is likely that the make-up of your team will gradually change over the course of the year due to the occasional need for a substitute player. If one of your original players returns to the senior side you do NOT automatically get him back in your team - you carry on with whoever the substitutes are. You will have to intervene by posting a new team if you want to reset your team. You can do this at any time during the season.
  3. If any of your default players from the previous game aren’t playing or if one or more of your picks is a late withdrawal and you don’t update your entry before match start time you get a substitute player.
  4. [AMENDMENT 15/4/21] If one of your selected players starts the game as the medical substitute you will automatically be allocated a Pieman substitute from the selected side of 22 as described below, even if the medical substitute ends up playing substantial game time. For consistency and simplicity this is not discretionary - you do not have the option of naming or retaining the medical substitute in your team.
  5. Substitute players are allocated from the final selected side of 22 as follows:
    • [AMENDMENT 15/4/21] If you have selected a player multiple times (2x or 3x) and he doesn't play then you only get one player as the substitute for that player and your substitute has the same multiple. For example you don't get three different players if your 3x multiple doesn't play. You get one player as a 3x.
    • Your substitute is the player not already in your team who scored the most goals last game
    • If there is more than one such player on the same number of goals it is the one with the greater handicap value UNLESS we are deciding between players who kicked zero goals last game, in which case it’s the one with the lowest handicap value. (Yes it sounds weird but there’s a rationale for that.)
    • If they are still equal on handicap value it is the one who has scored most goals over the season so far
    • If they remain equal after all of the above it is the one with the lowest jumper number
    • If the substitute is required in Round 1 (ie where there is no prior game) or if for some reason the above method doesn’t deliver a valid substitute then it’s the player who is NOT in your team who has the lowest handicap value, and then if a further tie-breaker is required it's the one with the lower jumper number
    • We use the same technique over again in any given round for as many times as you need to add substitute players.
  6. The aim will be to publish a new handicap list each week, although once the season has settled in the weekly variations will probably only be minor. However if for any reason the handicaps aren’t published by match start time (unlikely!) the players will retain the same handicaps they had in their previous senior game. If a player is playing his first game for the season AND no handicaps have been published he will be allocated a default handicap of 20.
  7. The published results are generally final but if you think there’s been an error or some other anomaly let me know and I’ll consider whether a correction is justified.
  8. If any situation arises that is not covered by these rules I’ll try to resolve it within the spirit of the competition.
  9. Similarly if it becomes apparent that a rule change or a new rule is required during the season (hopefully not!) I'll try to do that with minimal impact and within the spirit of the comp.
D. Fun
  • Be competitive but make sure you have fun! That’s the point of it all.

Reminder
There is no banker this year, and no mid-season trade period. Just your five players each week.
The best news is you can be sure of having five players every week!
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
21,888
33,572
Canberra
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Arsenal
PIEMAN HANDICAPS ROUND 1

Here are the provisional handicaps for Round 1. I'll cull them and finalise them after team selection is announced later in the week - hopefully with very little change - but it'll give you something to think about over the next few days.

1615635824932.png


I hereby declare the 2021 Pieman competition open!

You can enter whenever you like. Just nominate your 5 selections in this thread.

I'm going to try to keep it all in one big thread this year.

====================================================

EDIT: I forgot to include Treloar. I've given him a handicap of 21. The new list is below.
 
Last edited:

grassman75

Premiership Player
Jun 16, 2008
4,868
6,273
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Hey DW - if you get an entry in before Rd 1 and dont change your team before teams are announced do you get the exisitng handicap for RD 1 only?

Just a possible bonus for those who get in early...
 

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
21,888
33,572
Canberra
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Arsenal
Hey DW - if you get an entry in before Rd 1 and dont change your team before teams are announced do you get the exisitng handicap for RD 1 only?

Just a possible bonus for those who get in early...
Naah, too messy.
I needed to get the indicative handicaps out as early as possible for the first round so that people can get their heads around the options. I can't promise there won't be changes but I'll do my best to minimise them.
 

SayerTheCreator

Club Legend
Apr 4, 2016
1,721
2,289
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Boston Celtics
Stellar write-up. Thanks dogwatch

I’m going to try my luck at snaring the 20 bonus points straight off the bat.

Bruce
Wallis
Bont
English
Libba
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
21,888
33,572
Canberra
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Arsenal
Following team announcements, here is the cut-down lists. A bit easier for you to negotiate I hope. Lists only the 22 selected plus the emergencies.

There are NO CHANGES to the handicap values published earlier this week.

1616071407954.png
 

Remove this Banner Ad