The Press dinosaur

[jonbe54]

Is the press dying? Under Mick we won a premiership with it a few years ago but has it seen its day as a stand alone tactic?

The top teams - notably Geelong and Hawthorn can pierce the press, if not at will then with at least enough regularity to make it yesterdays tactics IMHO. It's time to let go and give it a decent burial, whilst getting back to a more balanced game plan. The top exponents of the press have all been notably low on elite talent, using it to drag other teams back to their level to win and yes that includes us.

Now we seem to be recruiting speed and elite (or near) ball users, this speaks to me of a tactical shift away from boundary line / bomb it to Cloke tactics towards a more multi-modal approach which will force opponents to spread their defensive pressure. For too long we have been philosophically wedded to the press because it won our last flag for us.

Those days are GONE, when the press is pierced its almost a gimme goal to the opposition and the top sides now do it regularly.

Time to adapt to the present, thank god for a coach not stuck in the '70's.

 

[Pie eyed]

Still very much alive.
Won a ****en Walkley which was a huge surprise.

 

[jonbe54]

Still very much alive.
Won a ****en Walkley which was a huge surprise.

'KEN LOL PE - Geeze if I was married to that I'd take up drink

 

[Reykjavik]

Still very much alive.
Won a ****en Walkley which was a huge surprise.

Burn it! Burn it with fire! Arghhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[Hinequarters]

Man I need a drink..


Ahhh now she looks better

 

[jonbe54]

Man I need a drink..


Ahhh now she looks better

And that would get me on the wagon

 

[Jelly Bean]

It's been gone a while. The end of it came in the GF in 2011, and since bucks took over he has adopted the slingshot - which is the new gameplan of the moment. It requires fast long ball movement into the forward line

 

[jonbe54]

It's been gone a while. The end of it came in the GF in 2011, and since bucks took over he has adopted the slingshot - which is the new gameplan of the moment. It requires fast long ball movement into the forward line

Agreed JB but there are quite a few here on BF who continually bemoan "so and so isn't great 1V1, or Joe Blow doesn't run hard enough 2 ways" etc., etc., etc. You can't be both offensively available and defensibly accountable at the same time.

We NEED those outside players to create OFFENSIVE upfield pressure to keep the opposition spread.

 

[Markfs]

when you have the ball, you use it efficiently.... when the ball is in dispute, you get the ball.....when the opposition has the ball, you pressure the opposition..

 

[jonbe54]

when you have the ball, you use it efficiently.... when the ball is in dispute, you get the ball.....when the opposition has the ball, you pressure the opposition..

Mark agree it's a simple enough philosophy which all teams should seek to acheive, however when you get defensively minded coaches it tends to become "make sure we pressure the opposition ball carrier to win the ball, then play it along the boundary so there is an absolute minimum chance of turnover second."

This is all very well until the opposition coaches realize you aren't going to do anything tremendously attacking with it and simply force you along the boundary line. Such forward line entries tend to go boundary side, lest squaring the ball opens you up for a counter attack, thus leaving your forwards with the task of continually attempting to convert from the boundary.

In our case it allows the opposition to concentrate their defenders on one side of the forward line and especially on Cloke, making it relatively easy to simply outnumber him and run the ball out with precise ball use until over the press then we are wide, WIDE open.

Just another case of having balance in all things, our playstyle and to a certain extent even our recruiting philosophy had become warped by too defensive a mindset.

 

[jmac70]

Doesn't Freo use the press?

 

[Markfs]

Mark agree it's a simple enough philosophy which all teams should seek to acheive, however when you gis et defensively minded coaches it tends to become "make sure we pressure the opposition ball carrier to win the ball, then play it along the boundary so there is an absolute minimum chance of turnover second."

This is all very well until the opposition coaches realize you aren't going to do anything tremendously attacking with it and simply force you along the boundary line. Such forward line entries tend to go boundary side, lest squaring the ball opens you up for a counter attack, thus leaving your forwards with the task of continually attempting to convert from the boundary.

In our case it allows the opposition to concentrate their defenders on one side of the forward line and especially on Cloke, making it relatively easy to simply outnumber him and run the ball out with precise ball use until over the press then we are wide, WIDE open.

Just another case of having balance in all things, our playstyle and to a certain extent even our recruiting philosophy had become warped by too defensive a mindset.

t


if a team is wide open then its defensive running needs work. if you use the ball efficiently when you have it, then attacking football will result. If you recruit players who will defend when the team doesnt have the ball and attack when it does, then you will find a balance between attack and defence. if your outside players get more hard ball gets then you improve...if your inside players use the ball better then you improve.... if your ruckman stay involved in the contest after the tap out then you improve.... if you kick straighter more often then you improve....if you learn to run a little harder for longer then you improve...

i dont understand why we would limit ourselves to changing one thing

 

[jonbe54]

Doesn't Freo use the press?

Sure does jmac, Ross Lyon took his mantra to the West and made them over into a carbon copy of St Kilda - yes it transformed them from an also ran into a contender and no it didn't take them to a flag, and in my opinion won't.

The trouble with the press is it's too reactive when used as the sole tactic, it should be PART of any team tactical setup but NOT the driving force.

To win a flag a team needs to get out there and TAKE it, defensive tactics will only take you so far. A balanced tactical approach is MUCH more likely to score you the goals necassary to win a flag.

 

[jonbe54]

t


if a team is wide open then its defensive running needs work. if you use the ball efficiently when you have it, then attacking football will result. If you recruit players who will defend when the team doesnt have the ball and attack when it does, then you will find a balance between attack and defence. if your outside players get more hard ball gets then you improve...if your inside players use the ball better then you improve.... if your ruckman stay involved in the contest after the tap out then you improve.... if you kick straighter more often then you improve....if you learn to run a little harder for longer then you improve...

i dont understand why we would limit ourselves to changing one thing

I think perhaps I haven't explained myself well enough Mark. I'm not advocating becoming an entirely offensively oriented team, just that we need to stop relying on defensive pressure to score goals.

It's an attitude thing, if a team relies on defensive work then it becomes reactive. If a team is reactive it allows first use of the ball to the opposition often because defense is our first thought.

A balanced attitude to tactics should be the go, the press is a good tactic IN ITS PLACE but NOT as a stand alone tactic which warps the entire teams balance and outlook.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The press in its 2010 form is dead. It needed to be modified because precise, short-kicking teams like Hawthorn now walk right through it. Hawthorn also have an excellent recent record against Fremantle, who rely on a defensive press, albeit a more defensive version than ours. Actually one can speculate as to whether Fremantle's form of the press is more defensive than ours, or whether they're just better at it than we are... anyway I digress.

It is still most effective against handballing teams like Geelong. Interestingly, Geelong trouble Hawthorn more than anyone else in the league.

 

[forwardflanker]

I think perhaps I haven't explained myself well enough Mark. I'm not advocating becoming an entirely offensively oriented team, just that we need to stop relying on defensive pressure to score goals.

It's an attitude thing, if a team relies on defensive work then it becomes reactive. If a team is reactive it allows first use of the ball to the opposition often because defense is our first thought.

A balanced attitude to tactics should be the go, the press is a good tactic IN ITS PLACE but NOT as a stand alone tactic which warps the entire teams balance and outlook.

The press is a defensive strategy that we've tried to use since 2010. Under Buckley we've totally changed our attacking ball movement and it's more attacking then defensive imo. In fact the change ball movement has backfired to some extent because we move the ball in with much more variety (corridor, the switch, either wing etc) that (a) it makes it difficult for the press to be organised effectively and (b) under Buckley we take more risks moving it in and as a consequence we are move vulnerable to turn overs through skill errors.

MM's wing play ball moving strategy complemented the press really well because (a) bombing the ball along the boundary to a tall target is not difficult for even unskilled players (b) when we did turn it over it was more difficult for the opposition to rebound from a pocket or flank rather than the corridor; and (c) because every Pies player knew exactly where the ball was delivered the press was much more effective because we got get large amounts of players to a small area on the ground and suffocate opposition rebound.

The problem with MM's gameplan is that it whilst it will still crush average-poor opposition, the top sides have well and truly adapted and now exploit it, both in their defensive set up and their offensive rebound. I mean the best illustration is to watch every Hawthorn v Collingwood game from the 2011 prelim to now to realize that they've got a very thorough understanding of the press and how to beat it. Their spoiling defenders like Gibson know exactly where the ball is going and they are expert at 3rd man up, and their rebounding defenders are so capable with ball in hand that the perceived pressure that the press depends on for turn overs is not as effective. If you look at Hawthorn's back 6 at least 2/3 of the players down there are elite with ball in hand and disposal. Guys like Burgoyne, Hodge and Mitchell are naturally better midfielders but they run their players through there because it's so important to have elite decision makers down there versus a side that uses a press.

Given that MM's gameplan is solved, and it's impossible to effectively implement following a more attacking ball movement style like Buckley's, I think the press as it stands is pretty near to dead.

 

[forwardflanker]

The press in its 2010 form is dead. It needed to be modified because precise, short-kicking teams like Hawthorn now walk right through it. Hawthorn also have an excellent recent record against Fremantle, who rely on a defensive press, albeit a more defensive version than ours. Actually one can speculate as to whether Fremantle's form of the press is more defensive than ours, or whether they're just better at it than we are... anyway I digress.

It is still most effective against handballing teams like Geelong. Interestingly, Geelong trouble Hawthorn more than anyone else in the league.

Yeah I also find it interesting that although Hawthorn are undeniably the best attacking team in the comp the two sides that give them the most trouble are Richmond and Geelong who both play a very fast attacking style and try to get into a shoot out. The Hawks really do seem to crush the sides who try to block up their scoring options and shut the game down. I think a big part of it has to do with the fact that it's impossible to maintain the defensive intensity across the ground required to beat a side like Hawthorn for 100 minutes of football. We've managed to stick with Hawthorn for a 1/2 or 3/4 the last 3 years or so but they always seem to eventually blow us away

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

when you have the ball, you use it efficiently.... when the ball is in dispute, you get the ball.....when the opposition has the ball, you pressure the opposition..

Yep. Footy is so much simpler than people give it credit for.

Win the ball, keep it off the opposition, be efficient with it.

You'll win 9/10 times.

 

[jonbe54]

Yeah I also find it interesting that although Hawthorn are undeniably the best attacking team in the comp the two sides that give them the most trouble are Richmond and Geelong who both play a very fast attacking style and try to get into a shoot out. The Hawks really do seem to crush the sides who try to block up their scoring options and shut the game down. I think a big part of it has to do with the fact that it's impossible to maintain the defensive intensity across the ground required to beat a side like Hawthorn for 100 minutes of football. We've managed to stick with Hawthorn for a 1/2 or 3/4 the last 3 years or so but they always seem to eventually blow us away

Yep have to make them accountable for OUR attacking strengths and that includes attacking straight down the middle when the option is on. The day of the press is dead - long live attractive attacking footy!!!

 

[jonbe54]

When you think about it the most effective press against any team is an unpredictable and rapid attack.

Moa Zedong, Machiavelli and Sun Tzu all ascribe to this defense through attack principle and Wing Chun - the original Kung Fu style learnt by the great Bruce Lee - is built on this principle.

Bruce Lee went on to found his own schools and adapt those principles into the heart of his new style of Kung Fu - Jeet Kune Do, or translated "The way of the intercepting fist".

Force your opponent to repel your attacks and his response will be limited in effectiveness through having been put on a defensive footing.

 

[RuFiO]

Yep. Footy is so much simpler than people give it credit for.

Win the ball, keep it off the opposition, be efficient with it.

You'll win 9/10 times.

If score more than the opposition you win 10/10 times.
Or so I heard.

 

[jonbe54]

If score more than the opposition you win 10/10 times.
Or so I heard.

NOT if the umps don't hear the final siren until AFTER the opposition has scored the winning goal - about a minute and a half after it sounded.

Happened to the Pies Vs North Melbourne in a reserves GF years ago.

The ump couldn't hear the final siren at a RESERVES night game????

Yeah riiiiiigggghhhttt

 

[RuFiO]

NOT if the umps don't hear the final siren until AFTER the opposition has scored the winning goal - about a minute and a half after it sounded.

Happened to the Pies Vs North Melbourne in a reserves GF years ago.

The ump couldn't hear the final siren at a RESERVES night game????

Yeah riiiiiigggghhhttt

Haha really.
What idiots.
Surely the players would've heard it and stopped play.

 

[Markfs]

I think perhaps I haven't explained myself well enough Mark. I'm not advocating becoming an entirely offensively oriented team, just that we need to stop relying on defensive pressure to score goals.

It's an attitude thing, if a team relies on defensive work then it becomes reactive. If a team is reactive it allows first use of the ball to the opposition often because defense is our first thought.

A balanced attitude to tactics should be the go, the press is a good tactic IN ITS PLACE but NOT as a stand alone tactic which warps the entire teams balance and outlook.

Jonbe, who is reportedly 54, I think perhaps that my life is becoming like a meandering brook in the middle of a sea of grasshoppers. I conclude that your vision is entirely thought-provoking and imminently eminent...

 

[Markfs]

Yep. Footy is so much simpler than people give it credit for.

Win the ball, keep it off the opposition, be efficient with it.

You'll win 9/10 times.

and lastly, and more importantly, publish freely on BF ...