Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[Joffaboy]

The more they get the less they need to ask for and why penalise the families of successful people. It’s just crazy to have a death tax.

How is it penalising families of successful people, oops sorry death tax, yeah went out with the dodo. I do rail at the pittance that most can leave their kids is forever being undermined by people like Philip Lowe transferring our money directly to his bankster mates (estimated 20 billion) under the guise of cutting inflation when there are many other ways to lower it (read a number of Ross Gittins articles).

They rob the working and middle classes of the tiny wealth we can accumulate. This is why I am in favour of cutting off the tax breaks to people with over 1.75 mill in Super. I am nowhere near that and as I am getting close to retirement am actually using all the tax breaks such as concessional rollover to 1) increase my super balance, 2) Reduce my taxable income.
A very quick way to lower your tax especially if you are a PAYG taxpayer. Everyone gets $27,500 a year concessional super contributions (meaning contributions taxed at 15% not your highest marginal rate). Employer puts in 10.5% of your salary, (average worker about 10k a year). the balance accumulates to be used (for the past 5 years). So most people would have around 50k concessional contributions to use.

Last year we sold an investment property, we both grabbed 70k of it and dumped it into our super and claimed the balance of our concessional contributions as a tax deduction. Instead of paying capital gains we actually received a substantial return (which we then put into our super). This is how the tax breaks should work, for middle income workers who are trying to self fund retirement instead of being a burden (or too much of one) on the taxpayer in our retirement.
I would recommend anyone even in their thirties or 40's to take advantage of these tax breaks. When you are due to retire in 20-30 years time, our aging population would have guaranteed changes to the pension as it becomes a huge burden on society.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You misunderstand - it wouldn't be a death/inheritance tax.

The govt gives you an incentive to put money into super by reducing your tax on contributions to 15% when you would have paid say 45% if you had just kept it.

What I am saying is that the taxation concession the govt gives you to help with your retirement should be repaid to govt on the your death. Any extra money in your super can then go tax free to your kids just like it does now.

But now that you mention it - we should have death taxes as well.

So you have $1million super, $250 000 of which would have otherwise been taxable.
You get hit by a bus walking home from your retirement party, and your million goes to the government?

Your millennial kids who are only good at computer games and working in hospitality get nothing and go on the dole.

For starters the government don't have any claim to anything over and above the tax that otherwise would have been paid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

How is it penalising families of successful people, oops sorry death tax, yeah went out with the dodo. I do rail at the pittance that most can leave their kids is forever being undermined by people like Philip Lowe transferring our money directly to his bankster mates (estimated 20 billion) under the guise of cutting inflation when there are many other ways to lower it (read a number of Ross Gittins articles).

They rob the working and middle classes of the tiny wealth we can accumulate. This is why I am in favour of cutting off the tax breaks to people with over 1.75 mill in Super. I am nowhere near that and as I am getting close to retirement am actually using all the tax breaks such as concessional rollover to 1) increase my super balance, 2) Reduce my taxable income.
A very quick way to lower your tax especially if you are a PAYG taxpayer. Everyone gets $27,500 a year concessional super contributions (meaning contributions taxed at 15% not your highest marginal rate). Employer puts in 10.5% of your salary, (average worker about 10k a year). the balance accumulates to be used (for the past 5 years). So most people would have around 50k concessional contributions to use.

Last year we sold an investment property, we both grabbed 70k of it and dumped it into our super and claimed the balance of our concessional contributions as a tax deduction. Instead of paying capital gains we actually received a substantial return (which we then put into our super). This is how the tax breaks should work, for middle income workers who are trying to self fund retirement instead of being a burden (or too much of one) on the taxpayer in our retirement.
I would recommend anyone even in their thirties or 40's to take advantage of these tax breaks. When you are due to retire in 20-30 years time, our aging population would have guaranteed changes to the pension as it becomes a huge burden on society.

We've been through a very long , low inflation time.
As a result some of the people who retired may have done pretty well.
Inflation tends to push up wages , as well as the cost of living. People with their super in high return funds can do well.

If you are a retiree , you usually have your money moved into a "safe" fund , and withdraw enough to live on.

If you'd put away $120000 by 1974, you could probably live on less than the interest of around $7000. ( average salary was around that ).
By 1984 , you can get even more interest from your fund, probably up around 10%. But now average wage is around $26000. So now you might be living on half the average wage.

Pay and interest have been very low for the last couple of decades , and what they always say on the super adds, PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF FUTURE.

There are plenty of options if you are young and cash strapped.
Extend your loan, or get a bigger loan: Not an option for retirees.
Work extra hours : Not an option for retirees.
Work a second job : Not an option for retirees.
Prositution : Not an option for retirees, OK maybe some weird fetish stuff.
Move into cheaper accommodation : Not always an option for retirees.

Too many people seem to be focused on what other people have got, and wanting to take it off them.
Too many people seem to think the future will mimic the past.

 

[Joffaboy]

So you have $1million super, $250 000 of which would have otherwise been taxable.
You get hit by a bus walking home from your retirement party, and your million goes to the government?

Your millennial kids who are only good at computer games and working in hospitality get nothing and go on the dole.

For starters the government don't have any claim to anything over and above the tax that otherwise would have been paid.

Wont be on a million, it would be on accounts of at least 2 mill (personally anything over 1.5 mill shouldn't get tax concessions.
And it will only be to stop the concessions on the 27.5k a year that is taxed at 15%. That is to encourage a person who is 60 and has 200k in Super to put more away. That way 1) he will have a better retirement, 2) wont be as much of a tax burden as he would have been)

 

[Joffaboy]

We've been through a very long , low inflation time.
As a result some of the people who retired may have done pretty well.
Inflation tends to push up wages , as well as the cost of living. People with their super in high return funds can do well.

If you are a retiree , you usually have your money moved into a "safe" fund , and withdraw enough to live on.

If you'd put away $120000 by 1974, you could probably live on less than the interest of around $7000. ( average salary was around that ).
By 1984 , you can get even more interest from your fund, probably up around 10%. But now average wage is around $26000. So now you might be living on half the average wage.

Pay and interest have been very low for the last couple of decades , and what they always say on the super adds, PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF FUTURE.

There are plenty of options if you are young and cash strapped.
Extend your loan, or get a bigger loan: Not an option for retirees.
Work extra hours : Not an option for retirees.
Work a second job : Not an option for retirees.
Prositution : Not an option for retirees, OK maybe some weird fetish stuff.
Move into cheaper accommodation : Not always an option for retirees.

Too many people seem to be focused on what other people have got, and wanting to take it off them.
Too many people seem to think the future will mimic the past.

There are plenty of options if you are young and cash strapped.
Plenty of options for retirees
Extend your loan, or get a bigger loan: Not an option for retirees.
Retirees can reverse mortgage on their house, basically cashing out the equity to an extent
Work extra hours : Not an option for retirees.
Can actually get a higher tax break by transitioning to retirement (TTR). Say at 63 you TTR to 4 days a week, you set up a pension cash fund from part of your super, while you still pay into concessional contributions (your PAYG is lower, and you get taxed @ 15% on the contributions, while your pension fund is not taxed at all. Same income bigger tax break, so instead of drawing say 15k p.a from your fund, in actuality you only draw probably half that.
Work a second job : Not an option for retirees.
Can work and get paid something like 7000k p.a without affecting your pension
Prositution : Not an option for retirees, OK maybe some weird fetish stuff.
Got me there
Move into cheaper accommodation : Not always an option for retirees.
Downsize from the empty nester to a smaller house, extra hundreds of thousands tax free however again you are spending the inheritance by cashing out your equity.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There are plenty of options if you are young and cash strapped.
Plenty of options for retirees
Extend your loan, or get a bigger loan: Not an option for retirees.
Retirees can reverse mortgage on their house, basically cashing out the equity to an extent
Work extra hours : Not an option for retirees.
Can actually get a higher tax break by transitioning to retirement (TTR). Say at 63 you TTR to 4 days a week, you set up a pension cash fund from part of your super, while you still pay into concessional contributions (your PAYG is lower, and you get taxed @ 15% on the contributions, while your pension fund is not taxed at all. Same income bigger tax break, so instead of drawing say 15k p.a from your fund, in actuality you only draw probably half that.
Work a second job : Not an option for retirees.
Can work and get paid something like 7000k p.a without affecting your pension
Prositution : Not an option for retirees, OK maybe some weird fetish stuff.
Got me there
Move into cheaper accommodation : Not always an option for retirees.
Downsize from the empty nester to a smaller house, extra hundreds of thousands tax free however again you are spending the inheritance by cashing out your equity.

OK you've assumed that all retiree's are asset rich and are fit enough to work.
Downsizing isn't that effective either. If you want to stay in the area you live in, a 2 bedroom apartment or unit often costs nearly as much as an ageing 4 bedroom house.
Most you can get is a couple of hundred thousand. You have to go with the "move to Moe " system to do it very

I agree , if you are wealthy you can stay wealthy.

If you get pushed into debt in your old age , you're screwed.

 

[gringo2011]

We've been through a very long , low inflation time.
As a result some of the people who retired may have done pretty well.
Inflation tends to push up wages , as well as the cost of living. People with their super in high return funds can do well.

If you are a retiree , you usually have your money moved into a "safe" fund , and withdraw enough to live on.

If you'd put away $120000 by 1974, you could probably live on less than the interest of around $7000. ( average salary was around that ).
By 1984 , you can get even more interest from your fund, probably up around 10%. But now average wage is around $26000. So now you might be living on half the average wage.

Pay and interest have been very low for the last couple of decades , and what they always say on the super adds, PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF FUTURE.

There are plenty of options if you are young and cash strapped.
Extend your loan, or get a bigger loan: Not an option for retirees.
Work extra hours : Not an option for retirees.
Work a second job : Not an option for retirees.
Prositution : Not an option for retirees, OK maybe some weird fetish stuff.
Move into cheaper accommodation : Not always an option for retirees.

Too many people seem to be focused on what other people have got, and wanting to take it off them.
Too many people seem to think the future will mimic the past.

I agree but the tax breaks for the super rich are bullshit still. A lot of dumb tax concessions were a way to throw a few crumbs to the scum while they reamed us. So much needs closing up now because it's untenable. The franking credits and negative gearing shit Shorten wanted to close up would have paid for the entire public school system funding. That's not pissing around amounts. Some people were going to miss out on gorging themselves and tore it down.

 

[Yawkey way]

I agree but the tax breaks for the super rich are bullshit still. A lot of dumb tax concessions were a way to throw a few crumbs to the scum while they reamed us. So much needs closing up now because it's untenable. The franking credits and negative gearing s**t Shorten wanted to close up would have paid for the entire public school system funding. That's not pissing around amounts. Some people were going to miss out on gorging themselves and tore it down.

If memory serves me correctly it was meant to have a grandfather clause. All the carry on was nothing more than a scare campaign. Super should have tax limits, that’s fair and reasonable although I’m against super funds and the government telling people what to do with their own money. Trust me they’ll be trying to stop people taking lump sums next, super funds have been lobbying and crying about this for ever and a day.

Most defined benefit schemes i’ve seen like the old public service super had a reasonable benefits limit, so something like 10 x your final average salary with an upper max amount as well. With that in mind setting a limit of $2million seems reasonable, past that point tax concessions should cut out. I would say that there are any number of ways for the government to increase revenue and cut expenditure. They usually lack the stomach to take on groups like the mining lobby or the wealthy and I doubt that will change anytime soon. In addition to lobbying power the truly rich, people who posses inter generational wealth will always be ahead of the game, the tax department are no match.

 

[plugger66]

If memory serves me correctly it was meant to have a grandfather clause. All the carry on was nothing more than a scare campaign. Super should have tax limits, that’s fair and reasonable although I’m against super funds and the government telling people what to do with their own money. Trust me they’ll be trying to stop people taking lump sums next, super funds have been lobbying and crying about this for ever and a day.

Most defined benefit schemes i’ve seen like the old public service super had a reasonable benefits limit, so something like 10 x your final average salary with an upper max amount as well. With that in mind setting a limit of $2million seems reasonable, past that point tax concessions should cut out. I would say that there are any number of ways for the government to increase revenue and cut expenditure. They usually lack the stomach to take on groups like the mining lobby or the wealthy and I doubt that will change anytime soon. In addition to lobbying power the truly rich, people who posses inter generational wealth will always be ahead of the game, the tax department are no match.

I’m not sure 2 million is fair. Sounds fair but that’s a lot of years left hopefully before you die. 5 million to me seems fair but I suppose it will depend on who most vote for even if people argue that isn’t the issue. Anything over 5 million though should have a normal tax rate which is about 43%. Won’t worry me. If I make it to 67 I will be working to then because I need the pension and super. Even then it will need a lifestyle change that won’t impress me. My aim is to give my daughter not one cent of cash but she can have a house worth around 1.5.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m not sure 2 million is fair. Sounds fair but that’s a lot of years left hopefully before you die. 5 million to me seems fair but I suppose it will depend on who most vote for even if people argue that isn’t the issue. Anything over 5 million though should have a normal tax rate which is about 43%. Won’t worry me. If I make it to 67 I will be working to then because I need the pension and super. Even then it will need a lifestyle change that won’t impress me. My aim is to give my daughter not one cent of cash but she can have a house worth around 1.5.

Both my parents have super and have more than they need despite everyone trying to scare them into putting more away. If you own your own home and are reasonably careful it's usually over kill. If you have $5 million in the assets you probably don't need super to live a good lifestyle.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Both my parents have super and have more than they need despite everyone trying to scare them into putting more away. If you own your own home and are reasonably careful it's usually over kill. If you have $5 million in the assets you probably don't need super to live a good lifestyle.

They were probably lucky to be there through a long period of stable low interest rates.
Also they probably put extra away in case young Gringo did something really stupid and needed mum and dad to fix the mess.

 

[StFly]

Both my parents have super and have more than they need despite everyone trying to scare them into putting more away. If you own your own home and are reasonably careful it's usually over kill. If you have $5 million in the assets you probably don't need super to live a good lifestyle.

If you have 5m in assets you would need super because as if you're sacrificing your lifestyle in the now for then. People seriously expect people living beyond their means with assets in rando places to suddenly become fiscally responsible when they don't have disposable incomes is baffling to me. Sure, I'll move from this suburb in inner metro area with pool, 4 tennis courts, a squish court, private fence made from diamonds to an area mebe 50km away with a pop of mebe 40k and one arterial. "Whaddya mean I have to take public transport? THIS IS A TRAVESTY!!111" seems more likely.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Either solution its all a scam in the long run

 

[gringo2011]

If you have 5m in assets you would need super because as if you're sacrificing your lifestyle in the now for then. People seriously expect people living beyond their means with assets in rando places to suddenly become fiscally responsible when they don't have disposable incomes is baffling to me. Sure, I'll move from this suburb in inner metro area with pool, 4 tennis courts, a squish court, private fence made from diamonds to an area mebe 50km away with a pop of mebe 40k and one arterial. "Whaddya mean I have to take public transport? THIS IS A TRAVESTY!!111" seems more likely.

If they can't move some assets into something to generate income it's a wonder they have any money at all. If you want to live like a king with no income you have bullshit wealth. Lots of idiots put on a show but live on credit from equity that isn't stable.

 

[Yawkey way]

I’m not sure 2 million is fair. Sounds fair but that’s a lot of years left hopefully before you die. 5 million to me seems fair but I suppose it will depend on who most vote for even if people argue that isn’t the issue. Anything over 5 million though should have a normal tax rate which is about 43%. Won’t worry me. If I make it to 67 I will be working to then because I need the pension and super. Even then it will need a lifestyle change that won’t impress me. My aim is to give my daughter not one cent of cash but she can have a house worth around 1.5.

When you consider that’s just super not any other class of asset it’s reasonable when you’re talking about tax subsidies.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I’m not sure 2 million is fair. Sounds fair but that’s a lot of years left hopefully before you die. 5 million to me seems fair but I suppose it will depend on who most vote for even if people argue that isn’t the issue. Anything over 5 million though should have a normal tax rate which is about 43%. Won’t worry me. If I make it to 67 I will be working to then because I need the pension and super. Even then it will need a lifestyle change that won’t impress me. My aim is to give my daughter not one cent of cash but she can have a house worth around 1.5.

There's an old superannuation rule of thumb called the 12 times rule.

Basically is says that when you retire, you need 12 times the amount of money you intend to spend each year in your super fund. Thats in your super fund - doesn't include your other assets like your house or your car boat etc.

So if the cut off is $5M then means someone who is going to be drawing a tax free retirement income of $400,000+ a year is getting a leg up from the govt.

No f***ing wonder we are struggling to provide health services and decent schools.

 

[bergholt]

There's an old superannuation rule of thumb called the 12 times rule.

Basically is says that when you retire, you need 12 times the amount of money you intend to spend each year in your super fund. Thats in your super fund - doesn't include your other assets like your house or your car boat etc.

So if the cut off is $5M then means someone who is going to be drawing a tax free retirement income of $400,000+ a year is getting a leg up from the govt.

No f***ing wonder we are struggling to provide health services and decent schools.

Are you suggesting that Barry and Janet should make do with flying Business Class to Europe twice a year rather than First? Impossible!

 

[joop]

#defundthedead

 

[pebblesofsand]

On a lighter note - the only magpie's I like.
Literally sitting on the sprinkler.

 

[Joffaboy]

Both my parents have super and have more than they need despite everyone trying to scare them into putting more away. If you own your own home and are reasonably careful it's usually over kill. If you have $5 million in the assets you probably don't need super to live a good lifestyle.

If you own your own house and have a mill between you, you can comfortably live on 90k a year until you are about 90.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joffaboy]

Either solution its all a scam in the long run

Umm no it's not.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PoppedCorn]

I havent obviously made myself clear

I apologise

Not the options u or anyone has put fwd

The scam as in the whole money thing

 

[gringo2011]

I havent obviously made myself clear

I apologise

Not the options u or anyone has put fwd

The scam as in the whole money thing

As a pessimistic nihilist I approve of this. Part of me thinks that the world is ****ed so why am I even worried about a few bucks to burn when society crumbles and we are eating each other for sustenance.

 

[plugger66]

Both my parents have super and have more than they need despite everyone trying to scare them into putting more away. If you own your own home and are reasonably careful it's usually over kill. If you have $5 million in the assets you probably don't need super to live a good lifestyle.

Well I don’t think people who have money and have deserved it should have to be careful with their life style. Let’s face it it will all come back to who you support and think like. I love people having heaps of money. I am completely middle class so it’s nothing about me but even I don’t want to be careful with money and I’m used to having just enough all my life. I don’t want people with 50 million getting concessions but I’m happy with those who have earnt enough to have some.

 

[StFly]

On a lighter note - the only magpie's I like.
Literally sitting on the sprinkler.

Ours do the same, if I ever walk outside one of them will then come running up thinking I have food for them and last time one did if anyone heard me it'd be "what am I, your butler?".

How I wish it were crows instead, then the cockatoos might not raid our trees every goddamn year.