Hot Topic The Rebuild, est. 2023 and/or 2025

[ant555]

If you look at successful sides, most have an optimal model in which to build around. I haven't seen Scott implement modes of ball movement consistent enough to identify gameplan or understand his theory of football to see what we are working towards. At most a clearance based model that hasn't won a premiership without superstars ever.

I understand he's limited by what he has but it was the same at North. Trying to get the best out of what he has rather than clear vision to work towards.

This is where seeing some training is a help. I have seen what they want to do but he does not have the cattle to do it. They have lifted the fitness levels and how they prepare but at the end of the day you are limited to what your players can do on the field. They train fast footy ad nauseum but throw in the opposition and pressure that leads to skill errors and you get what you get. On top of that the fact we lack marking targets down the line and it makes us easy to play against. Midfield zone and force us long down the wing or chip sideways. Until we get some dynamic ball movers off half back that can break the lines and a couple of blokes that are able to take a mark in the forward line we will not see exactly how good or bad he is tactically.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

We just can't make the hard decisions.

Case in point Kyle Langford. Had some credits in the bank. We should have shipped him off last year as he would of got us something better than Stringer

He is now injured again and imo his best is past him.

Not ruthless enough.

 

[I Remember Bluey]

We just can't make the hard decisions.

Looks like we are doing something right then, because you should never make important decisions whilst hard.

 

[Foxx]

We've never had several high picks in consecutive years.
That's how premiership sides are initially built.

We had one covid affected year of high picks.

Every other year we've held onto players and tried to trade others in.

 

[Just A Tragic]

This is where seeing some training is a help. I have seen what they want to do but he does not have the cattle to do it. They have lifted the fitness levels and how they prepare but at the end of the day you are limited to what your players can do on the field. They train fast footy ad nauseum but throw in the opposition and pressure that leads to skill errors and you get what you get. On top of that the fact we lack marking targets down the line and it makes us easy to play against. Midfield zone and force us long down the wing or chip sideways. Until we get some dynamic ball movers off half back that can break the lines and a couple of blokes that are able to take a mark in the forward line we will not see exactly how good or bad he is tactically.

When they are training this 'fast-ball' movement at training who are the distributors and who are the targets?

If we don't have the cattle for the plan, do you think that indicates a commitment to continue the list purge and target the missing pieces to fit the game plan?

The fact they can't play the game plan we want is so clear to see when the opposition has momentum and we are all at sea defensively and in attack.

 

[faible]

We've never had several high picks in consecutive years.
That's how premiership sides are initially built.

We had one covid affected year of high picks.

Every other year we've held onto players and tried to trade others in.

2013: Pick 26
2014: Picks 17 & 20
2015: Picks 5, 6, 29 & 30
2016: Picks 1, 22 & 31

That's 10 players selected in the first 2 rounds across 4 years, including 3 inside the Top-10 in two consecutive drafts.

2020: Picks 8, 9 and 10
2021: Pick 13
2022: Picks 5 and 25
2023: Pick 10
2024: Pick 13

That's 8 players inside 30 over 5 drafts, including 5 inside the Top-10.

2013 - 2016 we also managed to pick a few later guys that were quality; Fantasia, McKenna, Tippungwuti.

 

[Vindicater]

I still don't understand the gameplan which makes me think we are trying to implement it with the wrong cattle.

 

[I Remember Bluey]

Looks like we are finally starting to get our shit together

 

[Red Black and Blue]

This is where seeing some training is a help. I have seen what they want to do but he does not have the cattle to do it. They have lifted the fitness levels and how they prepare but at the end of the day you are limited to what your players can do on the field. They train fast footy ad nauseum but throw in the opposition and pressure that leads to skill errors and you get what you get. On top of that the fact we lack marking targets down the line and it makes us easy to play against. Midfield zone and force us long down the wing or chip sideways. Until we get some dynamic ball movers off half back that can break the lines and a couple of blokes that are able to take a mark in the forward line we will not see exactly how good or bad he is tactically.

Not having the cattle to do it after 3 off seasons is a little of the point I'm trying to make. Not that I'd except we'd have the talent ready to go, but I'd like to see players in the wings suitable to execute roles in a year or two coming through. Having a clarity of vision inspires effective list decisions. Not that I don't like a lot of what Scott has done, but to ad nauseum the D'Ambrosio point; discarding him and then trying to find creative half back users to execute fast play just leaves me perplexed, there is a meandering that makes me question Scott's tactical clarity.

 

[ant555]

Not having the cattle to do it after 3 off seasons is a little of the point I'm trying to make. Not that I'd except we'd have the talent ready to go, but I'd like to see players in the wings suitable to execute roles in a year or two coming through. Having a clarity of vision inspires effective list decisions. Not that I don't like a lot of what Scott has done, but to ad nauseum the D'Ambrosio point; discarding him and then trying to find creative half back users to execute fast play just leaves me perplexed, there is a meandering that makes me question Scott's tactical clarity.

Couple of points.

Club hired Scott without him having to do a deep dive into the list and hired him on the basis that the list was good but ubder developed. It is hardly a surprise that we wasted year 1 and then worked out after last years choke that the list has some serious issues. We basically lost two years because we hired our third choice coach and second choice CEO. Thankfully the second choice CEO looks to be a good move.
If you go back through a lot of articles it mentions a number of times that step one was going to be building a professional football program. That was always going to be something that would take a couple of pre seasons.
Also the first off season Draft / FA / Trade period does not really count as Scott had been with us a limited amount of time before the trade period.

D'Ambrosio. Coach did not want to trade him. As soon as they got wind of him going they actually matched the Hawks offer but it was too late. That one is on Dodoro. He was the one that told the football heads that Mass would be fine with a 1 year deal. Yes Scott dropped him back to the VFL to work on a few defensive things but he did want him on board.

 

[ant555]

Looks like we are finally starting to get our shit together



View attachment 2275163

Yep cleaned up and together in one bag

 

[bombersim]

Unsure where to put this but seems this is probably going to get a real work out over the next little while.

With so much commentary about where it all went wrong, a small time line of major events in recent years can begin the light of how we ended up in this cluster****

My very very limited research to which may not be 100% accurate but timeline still stands.

(2019 - Essendon finish 8th, 55 point loss to WCE)

(2020 - Essendon finish 13th)

May 2020
- Robert Forster-Knights

(2021 - Essendon finish 8th, 49 point loss to WB)

15 August, 2022

• Paul Brasher re signs as President
• Dave Barham appointed President

23 August, 2022
- Xavier Campbell resigns as CEO

September 29, 2022
- Brad Scott appointed by panel including Jordan Lewis, Robert Walls, Simone McKinnis, Josh Mahoney

October 1, 2022
- Andrew Thorburn elected CEO

October 2, 2022
- Andrew Thorburn resigns as CEO

10 August, 2022
- Josh Mahoney steps down

(2022 - Essendon finish 15th)

February, 2023
- Craig Vozzo appointed new CEO

19 September, 2023
- Matt Rosa appointed

(2023 - Essendon finish 11th)

15 August, 2024
- Kevin Sheedy steps down from board

16 August, 2024
- Adrian Dodoro steps away for persona leave

November 2024
- Confirmation Adrian Dodoro been removed from position

(2024 - Essendon finish 11th)

25 March, 2025
- Essendon come out without admitting a re build will be under taken

(Essendon after 2 games has one of our worst % in recent years

Few notes I observe.

Scott appointed and this is his third year with this group. Obviously year one (2023) was about getting an idea of where the list is at. Year two (2024) was about seeing what the group could do. year three (2025) is now and admittance it is no where near where it should be at.

The cross factor to Scott is the Rosa appointment. He was appointed at the end of 2023 so really only 2024 to see what the list could do. With some success at WCE, Rosa has obviously said to Scott and upper management that the list is no where near good enough.

This makes so much more sense why Scott was given an extra year.
2025 is about seeing what the youth could do, we added 7 x 18 year olds in the last off season.
2026 is about adding more youth, we hold 2 x firsts, 2 x seconds and have a small plethora of NGA kids available (El-Achkar, Leeds, Sweid, Olasenka etc).
2027 is the added year and the one that makes sense now. Will be year three of having this young group and could very well be on the right track or the club will be able to see if Scott is / is not the right man for the job moving forward.

The stability the club now has in some key positions is enjoyable. Vozzo seems like an incredibly good operator and one who doesn't want to be on the face of everything. Ditto Rosa. I haven't heard from Barham which is another positive imho


Hoping the stability off field in these key roles can lead to stability the field if we can get better development coaches and a constant improvement in the VFL program.

Thoughts?

Nice post - great detail. One disagreement though (with the bolded) - wouldn’t year one and two be the same thing? Do you mean “more fully” understand what they can do?

My main gripe with Scott is that it took him at least 12 months too long to realise we’re poor and that the list requires stripping it all back further (re-stump and re-wire, maybe even demolish), rather than it’s mostly good and we’re a McKay and Gresham away from contending.
Perhaps he thought the additions would be better than they are?

We need elite talent in the door via pick 3+4, not simply a single pick 10-12 (which is what will happen if they keep Draper and finish mid table).

 

[Yoda_]

Seen a few posts seeping into threads about how the re build should be going. Personally, I think the way Scott & Co is doing it is great.


If anything, stock piling picks has been the biggest shortfall of top end talent in the Dodo era. With 4 current picks inside the first two rounds and two possible top 40 NGA kids as well, we could really turbocharge the rebuild.



Furthermore, the current trajectory has seen Roberts come in and hold his own. Nate Caddy continues to have (huge) moments within games. Hobbs I like his body of work this year. Kako is holding his own in the first year.

This isn't to mention the group above tad more mature than the above mentioned. Reid looks a genuine AA in the making, Martin of old was back yesterday, Caldwell will be better for the run, Durham does Durham things.

If anything, it is the older guys who are making or breaking the group. In the first half against Sydney, McGrath, Redman, Langford were all good, when they slowed, Swans started to get on top. We need leaders to really stand up. That is still the big sticking point for me

 

[jdstorm]

Seen a few posts seeping into threads about how the re build should be going. Personally, I think the way Scott & Co is doing it is great.


If anything, stock piling picks has been the biggest shortfall of top end talent in the Dodo era. With 4 current picks inside the first two rounds and two possible top 40 NGA kids as well, we could really turbocharge the rebuild.



Furthermore, the current trajectory has seen Roberts come in and hold his own. Nate Caddy continues to have (huge) moments within games. Hobbs I like his body of work this year. Kako is holding his own in the first year.

This isn't to mention the group above tad more mature than the above mentioned. Reid looks a genuine AA in the making, Martin of old was back yesterday, Caldwell will be better for the run, Durham does Durham things.

If anything, it is the older guys who are making or breaking the group. In the first half against Sydney, McGrath, Redman, Langford were all good, when they slowed, Swans started to get on top. We need leaders to really stand up. That is still the big sticking point for me

Also the whole KPD going off and subsequent reshuffle. It’s probably not a good thing that a first game player needs to be solid for these guys to shine but that’s the list RN

 

[fairbump_playon]

Where did it go RIGHT you mean

 

[Tazdog]

My only concern with the coaching is why can't we kill teams? When was the last time we won by 50+?
We were up by 40 and had a chance to blow the game out of the water but time and time again we give the opposition a chance to get back into the game.. Yes, we beat shit teams but not by anywhere near enough. Is this a deliberate thing- are we trying to be shit? Again, yesterday we were up 30 and had all the momentum going into the last quarter and brad throws a spare behind the footy which just allowed them to get repeat entries because we were outnumbered going forward. why don't we just back ourselves in and try and really win the game, put it to bed, and its see ya later 10 mins into the last. Even if we go attack mode, worst thing that could happen is we let the other team back into the game, which is what happened anyways!
If there is a reason that I'm not picking up on can someone pls explain, we seem to be the only club who does this

 

[hurlygurdy]

My only concern with the coaching is why can't we kill teams? When was the last time we won by 50+?
We were up by 40 and had a chance to blow the game out of the water but time and time again we give the opposition a chance to get back into the game.. Yes, we beat shit teams but not by anywhere near enough. Is this a deliberate thing- are we trying to be shit? Again, yesterday we were up 30 and had all the momentum going into the last quarter and brad throws a spare behind the footy which just allowed them to get repeat entries because we were outnumbered going forward. why don't we just back ourselves in and try and really win the game, put it to bed, and its see ya later 10 mins into the last. Even if we go attack mode, worst thing that could happen is we let the other team back into the game, which is what happened anyways!
If there is a reason that I'm not picking up on can someone pls explain, we seem to be the only club who does this

We are always reactive to the opposition. We don’t have the ego/delusion/self belief that we can just do our own thing. We fire up against teams that challenge us, but we don’t really have a response to a team that is capitulating. It’s kind of a fight flight sympathetic nervous system thing. We just sag with relief when we get a comfortable lead during the game.

 

[Agronomus]

Wrong = Dodoro
Right = Rosa

 

[Phone]

My only concern with the coaching is why can't we kill teams? When was the last time we won by 50+?
We were up by 40 and had a chance to blow the game out of the water but time and time again we give the opposition a chance to get back into the game.. Yes, we beat shit teams but not by anywhere near enough. Is this a deliberate thing- are we trying to be shit? Again, yesterday we were up 30 and had all the momentum going into the last quarter and brad throws a spare behind the footy which just allowed them to get repeat entries because we were outnumbered going forward. why don't we just back ourselves in and try and really win the game, put it to bed, and its see ya later 10 mins into the last. Even if we go attack mode, worst thing that could happen is we let the other team back into the game, which is what happened anyways!
If there is a reason that I'm not picking up on can someone pls explain, we seem to be the only club who does this

coz we're not good. it's not complicated

we were lucky to be 40 points up, we kicked everything & 2 of our goals came from 50m pens. that luck ran out in the 2nd half

 

[doug85]

I don’t understand why “we don’t win by enough” is even a talking point.

It’s hard enough for us to even win, who gives a shit about the margin

 

[Yoda_]

coz we're not good. it's not complicated

we were lucky to be 40 points up, we kicked everything & 2 of our goals came from 50m pens. that luck ran out in the 2nd half

Was thinking about this just this afternoon.

I’m happy we are applying ourselves for more than half a game. If we do so for 2/3 then we can start winning more comfortably. 90% or more and we could blow teams away

Baby steps my friend. We are not just capitulating when the going gets tough but being resolute and finding ways to win.

 

[BomberManU]

Far from convinced about Scott, but the rebuild is going well.

 

[Yoda_]

Bump


Seen a few people questioning the drafting of Perkins, Cox, Jones in a recent article on FoxSports

That decision left North Melbourne champion David King “staggered”, while Montagna labelled it “interesting”, speculating that it might be a “reality check, a bit of a kick up the backside”.

“That was last week (against Geelong), though, wasn’t it? Second week in a row, I’m not sure about this one,” King added.

“They’ve probably got half a dozen guys (on their list) that they’re looking at, I think, that really give them an opportunity in the future - he’s one of those.

Just dont know how much these 'experts' appreciate the different drafting under the new regime has been going on. Obviously we can't change 40-odd players in one off season, but the fact we have turned over a pretty significant chunk shows we dont rate what we have.


I think the injuries forcing a rebuild is good and something the club hasn't experienced in some time

With another handful of top 40 (potential) picks in this draft, we could see positive results sooner than later.

So Kingy, Jon Ralph, Leigh Montagna

Leigh Montagna

Age

42

Ht

178cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.9

5star

K

14.8

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.7

4star

T

4.0

5star

MG

482.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.8

2star

HB

1.2

2star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

, Jason Dunstall questioning us being crap right now, we'll be a force in time

 

[Chief Hopper]

Just dont know how much these 'experts' appreciate the different drafting under the new regime has been going on. Obviously we can't change 40-odd players in one off season, but the fact we have turned over a pretty significant chunk shows we dont rate what we have.


I think the injuries forcing a rebuild is good and something the club hasn't experienced in some time

With another handful of top 40 (potential) picks in this draft, we could see positive results sooner than later.

So Kingy, Jon Ralph, Leigh Montagna , Jason Dunstall questioning us being crap right now, we'll be a force in time

Well these pundits have to talk about something. If they can feed off supporter dissatisfaction, it means their ratings go up.
If anything this year will be great to see what our players can do.
We are starting to see what works, what doesn't, who can hold positions, who is running out of time.

I think in the past Essendon has had to hold onto players way past the point of them being effective, just because there was no alternative.
Apart from the saga, we have been a bit unlucky here and there. But I think we are slowly getting past all that.

 

[thebigboy]

There's been a lot of weird reporting around us.

Bump


Seen a few people questioning the drafting of Perkins, Cox, Jones in a recent article on FoxSports




Just dont know how much these 'experts' appreciate the different drafting under the new regime has been going on. Obviously we can't change 40-odd players in one off season, but the fact we have turned over a pretty significant chunk shows we dont rate what we have.


I think the injuries forcing a rebuild is good and something the club hasn't experienced in some time

With another handful of top 40 (potential) picks in this draft, we could see positive results sooner than later.

So Kingy, Jon Ralph, Leigh Montagna, Jason Dunstall questioning us being crap right now, we'll be a force in time

The revisionist history discussions from the media around drafting is the lowest form of sports analysis IMO. Of course 5 years later you'd draft other players, 17 other clubs would do the same too for every draft. If the discussion is around our poor development and insability damaging their growth, that's a far better point to make.