2nds The SANFL Thread

[chazwazza]

The answer is obvious. An AFL reserves competition. Is the AFL not making enough money?

Agree totally. They fund the northern and the eastern conferences and when they come together to play in the NEAFL conference there must be a crap load of travel and costs involved. Why don't they fund a Southern conference incorporating all Victorian, SA & WA reserve teams?
For a comp with so much money they are dropping the ball big time lately on some major integrity issues.
Illicit drug policy has been proven to be the sham that it always was.
Performance drug policy is showing major cracks.
Bullheadedness regarding a reserves comp.
Total lack of any leadership, direction and professionalism concerning goal line technology.
Etc etc. Maybe Demitriou should go for a position at FIFA!

 

[*PAF]

Interesting listening to the heated debate on 5AA this morning.

Went something like this:

Shutts: I reckon it will happen, the SANFL and the clubs are coming to the realisation that commercially a Crows second side in the SANFL makes sense
Rucci: won't happen, I've spoken to the Presidents and they say no
Shuts: I've spoken to the CEOs and they are warming to it
Rucci: but I've spoken to the Presidents and they make the decisions
Shuts: yes, but they are going to take advice from their management
Rucci: youre just a parrot for the Crows
Shuts: you are a Moo.

Ok I made that last bit up but the way Rucci was talking over Shutts and getting all worked up because Shutts was expressing his opinion of what might happen was a disgrace.

Made up or not still correct.

 

[*PAF]

Port have to travel 10 times a year.

More players to move around, will still need to recruit "top up" players to fill two teams and IMO it will be the straw that broke the camel's back wrt local leagues. The SANFL will eventually run out of money and end up competing with the SAAFL for both players and spectators. Not in a year or two but long term.

 

[Mattrox]

Made up or not still correct.

I heard that bit. Sounded like Shutts had been reading BF and the SANFL had told Rooch to tow the party line.

 

[LC40]

Surely the weakest argument yet on this topic.

Rory Sloane enjoyed his time at an SANFL club and made some friends? Who gives a shit?

Your argument that having our players play in the SANFL so they have a chance to broaden their social network and be happier is hilarious. Completely 100% irrelevant.

What happens big picture if the Crows and Power take their teams to the VFL and as a result the SANFL is left to its own devices separate from the Crows and Power? The SANFL will become the 4th best AFL competition in the land (AFL,VFL,WAFL,SANFL). Better players will go to the VFL/WAFL to try and get a shot at playing AFL.

Lets face it. The SANFL is irrelevant. The Crows need to do whatever they think is best - even if it pisses off the existing SANFL clubs.

You're right thinking about it I actually don't give a shit either.
As I said it was an aside, something I heard and commented on, an observation piece that as you pointed out has no relevance to the argument at all......100%

" Lets face it. The SANFL is irrelevant. The Crows need to do whatever they think is best - even if it pisses off the existing SANFL clubs "

Perhaps this is my point in reverse... The AFL is irrelevant to followers of the SANFL. The SANFL need to do whatever they think is best - even if it pisses off the existing AFL clubs.

The SANFL will survive and will keep functioning with our without the AFL teams involvement.
How small or popular it becomes is anybody's guess but they'll have the income stream from the SMA and West Lakes to survive.

If the Crows and Power are going to make the SANFL comp stronger / weaker or increase crowd numbers.... who really cares.
It won't bother me one way or the other because I will still keep following my SANFL team religiously as well as going to every Crows game here in Adelaide and a few interstate games as well.

SANFL followers are only asking for a competition that is not compromised by having current AFL players involved in it.Every team playing under the same conditions.
Simple!

 

[beartoo]

The answer is obvious. An AFL reserves competition. Is the AFL not making enough money?

Agree. They should never have disbanded the 2nds and under-19s comps

 

[PykeDream]

Grigg with 10d, 3Cl, 3I50 and 1.0 before with time remaining in the first half.

 

[hey shorty]

Must be nearly time to have a look at the kid. Had a very solid season and deserves a crack soon.

 

[chazwazza]

What points?
For every "black" answer, people like you say "white".
For every "white" answer, people like you will then say "black".

They were some pretty easy and direct questions that need to be posed as they are, in my view, important to the integrity of ANY sporting competition. They are constantly left to go through to the keeper.
I don't care if someone doesn't agree with me but if we're going to discuss this problem, certain issues need to be discussed, posed and looked at through different eyes.

 

[chazwazza]

That's all fine, bit the sanfl can't have it both ways and should allow a crows reserve team in the VFL.

I'm not aware of the SANFL blocking them from joining the VFL. I don't have a problem with it.

 

[chazwazza]

Just a few from the top of my head. I am sure that if people sat down they could find many more and that is the point (only point) I have been trying to make.


This is only an example and I am sure you could find many more, and even better ones.
Port has just purchased an Anti-Gravity Treadmill and would like more but cannot afford it. I believe the Crows have one as I read somewhere that Port was the last club to do so but I could be wrong.
If there was a clinic, Port could buy two, the Crows two and the SANFL 2.
All of a sudden there are 6 available for the AFL clubs (more than enough) and the SANFL clubs have access to new unaffordable but much needed technology. The football department expenses for both AFL clubs have been minimised and outputs immensely maximised. Gain for the AFL clubs, gain for the SANFL clubs.
Please do not tell me (not you personally chaz, but in general) that sharing arrangements cannot be found.



Friday night games were a bust for a long time now Friday night is the prime slot.
Had they given up early on ...


I was living in Adelaide at the time and IMO the SANFL went for too much and ended up with nothing. Bit of deja vous happening atm. Are the same people involved?

wrt the bastard son of the AFL, what we have now is already better than what we had 15 years ago and with some work it will be better again. As much as any Victorian would not like to hear this, even they must realise than in time it will be a truly National comp and not one ruled by any one of the states. The expansion happening atm will ensure that and that is part of the reason why GWS and GCS must succeed.

wrt Port getting a gig, if it wasn't Port then it should have been Norwood but again that is only my personal opinion and a different debate.


The PAFC have already given up their seat in the SANFL for the one club bid and now there is a chance they will lose even more.
IMO best solution is for the Magpies to stay as they are juniors etc and become the reserves team at the same time.
For the AFC it gets a bit trickier as you wouldn't want to start from scratch with underage teams etc but there are options and they have to be found sooner rather than later.


Another aside, Port have pushed most of the issues publicly but IMO that is only because they can (due to make up of the board etc) I am sure that behind the scenes the AFC has been supporting a lot of what Port have done but need to time what they say to avoid backlash.

wrt the integrity of the SANFL league I am not sure any of us knows what that means any more, the SANFL needs to come out with a vision for the future of the SANFL and then we will know.

PAF, I'd agree with most of this. As I'm on my phone I'm not going to answer to all points but a lot of it makes sense and its good to debate it with someone who can realise that compromise is going to be key in this.
I think Port Magpies should keep their zone, can't see why Power should have anything direct to do with it apart from some funding. As for Adelaide, don't see why they need a zone.
I think a good idea for top ups for all AFL reserves clubs is to expand the idea of the NSW Scholarship program to all states and effectively expand the rookie lists (maybe a sub-rookie list) to accommodate for more players from an even spread across the country. Hopefully it will help develop the game up in the NE of the country, and lessen the direct hit on top up players coming straight out of the SANFL and VFL.

 

[*PAF]

...
I think a good idea for top ups for all AFL reserves clubs is to expand the idea of the NSW Scholarship program to all states and effectively expand the rookie lists (maybe a sub-rookie list) to accommodate for more players from an even spread across the country. Hopefully it will help develop the game up in the NE of the country, and lessen the direct hit on top up players coming straight out of the SANFL and VFL.

Great idea. That would be a bonus any way one looks at it.

 

[WAG]

Must be nearly time to have a look at the kid. Had a very solid season and deserves a crack soon.

Ended up with 24d 7Cl 7i50 3r50 1g1b.

 

[Jakko]

Just my opinion, but the sanfl really need to embrace the AFL sides a bit more.

Even though its been a bad day for the crows, if their "reserves" side was playing tomorrow against a sanfl team, I could see a pretty decent crowd attending. A side like South Adelaide would like a home game against the crows reserves side Im sure. Crows/Port supporters who are low on cash can still support their side. The media would cover the sanfl more, purely because of the AFL sides presence.

Even market it that its OK to support the Crows but still be a North Adelaide Member, or to be a Port supporter but prefer Centrals win in the sanfl? Perhaps even pay 50-80$ extra on a Crow/Port season ticket and nominate a sanfl side that the money goes to. In return for an all access sanfl ticket.

 

[Glenno23]

Ended up with 24d 7Cl 7i50 3r50 1g1b.

Don't be gifting him a game though!!!

 

[finn]

Surely the weakest argument yet on this topic.

Rory Sloane enjoyed his time at an SANFL club and made some friends? Who gives a shit?

Your argument that having our players play in the SANFL so they have a chance to broaden their social network and be happier is hilarious. Completely 100% irrelevant.

What happens big picture if the Crows and Power take their teams to the VFL and as a result the SANFL is left to its own devices separate from the Crows and Power? The SANFL will become the 4th best AFL competition in the land (AFL,VFL,WAFL,SANFL). Better players will go to the VFL/WAFL to try and get a shot at playing AFL.

Lets face it. The SANFL is irrelevant. The Crows need to do whatever they think is best - even if it pisses off the existing SANFL clubs.

If meeting people elsewhere makes interstate players enjoy Adelaide more. i'd have thought that this may a factor in them staying or moving back interstate? Certainly know that Walker and Will Young massively enjoyed playing out at Norwood and were happy to play there which would only help their mindset with regards to the AFC.
Certainly the quicker there's a Reserves competion the better for all clubs and it would stop this debate.
As an aside, why should Port keep their zone if there's AFL sides in the SANFL and Adelaide miss out on this opportunity?

 

[redandblack]

I haven't read the 45 pages so far, but the whole concept that Adelaide must have a Reserves side is flawed.

They base it on Geelong's success. Does Melbourne have its own VFL side? Yes

Has Rory Laird's development been hindered or helped by playing with West Adelaide? No.

Would Rory Laird be a better player if he had been playing in the NEAFL? No.

Would Rory Laird be a better player playing in the SANFL alongside 10 sub-standard 'top-up' team mates? No.

I'm using Rory as an example. West Adelaide recognised his talent years ago. They've invested a lot of time and money to develop him as a top player. For that, he plays a handful of league games for them and is hen drafted by Adelaide. West get a relative pittance for him and he is now 'Adelaide's player'.

You can substitute any number of players for Rory, the story is the same.

All Adelaide's players came from junior clubs or State League clubs. The disrespect here towards those leagues often shows just ignorance.

I watched West Adelaide yesterday. We lost. Ben Rutten would have been handy, too. In their day, so would Tony Modra, Shaun Rehn, Mark Ricciutto, Tyson Edwards and so many others, all West Adelaide juniors or players.

They are rightly legends if the Adelaide FC.

To those who disrespect the SANFL, you are ignorant of football history and structure.

 

[*PAF]

I haven't read the 45 pages so far, but the whole concept that Adelaide must have a Reserves side is flawed.

They base it on Geelong's success. Does Melbourne have its own VFL side? Yes
...

Every year there will be roughly 5 Melbourne teams that do well and 5 that don't.

If in 5 years time Melbourne are going better than Geelong these type of posts will look something like:

They base it on Melbourne's success. Does Geelong have its own VFL side? Yes


Now who what which is flawed?

 

[Mattrox]

I haven't read the 45 pages so far, but the whole concept that Adelaide must have a Reserves side is flawed.

They base it on Geelong's success. Does Melbourne have its own VFL side? Yes

Has Rory Laird's development been hindered or helped by playing with West Adelaide? No.

Would Rory Laird be a better player if he had been playing in the NEAFL? No.

Would Rory Laird be a better player playing in the SANFL alongside 10 sub-standard 'top-up' team mates? No.

I'm using Rory as an example. West Adelaide recognised his talent years ago. They've invested a lot of time and money to develop him as a top player. For that, he plays a handful of league games for them and is hen drafted by Adelaide. West get a relative pittance for him and he is now 'Adelaide's player'.

You can substitute any number of players for Rory, the story is the same.

All Adelaide's players came from junior clubs or State League clubs. The disrespect here towards those leagues often shows just ignorance.

I watched West Adelaide yesterday. We lost. Ben Rutten would have been handy, too. In their day, so would Tony Modra, Shaun Rehn, Mark Ricciutto, Tyson Edwards and so many others, all West Adelaide juniors or players.

They are rightly legends if the Adelaide FC.

To those who disrespect the SANFL, you are ignorant of football history and structure.

The difference is Geelong is a well run club with a reserves side. We might not be as well run as Geelong, but we aren't even in the same post code as Melbourne in that regard.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Jaensch off to a flyer at Woodville. 2goals and 6 possessions in 10 mins.

In for Petrenko next week?

Stiffy an early goal against the Panthers as well

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Jaensch off to a flyer at Woodville. 2goals and 6 possessions in 10 mins.

In for Petrenko next week?

Would love Jaensch to get a decent crack as a small forward

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Sturt up by 39 points against the Eagles

C'mon!

Mind you, we were up by this much against them earlier in the season and got smoked in the 2nd half so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[redandblack]

Every year there will be roughly 5 Melbourne teams that do well and 5 that don't.

If in 5 years time Melbourne are going better than Geelong these type of posts will look something like:

They base it on Melbourne's success. Does Geelong have its own VFL side? Yes



Now who what which is flawed?

Your argument.

It's not logical. The point is that having your own Reserves side in the VFL works for some and not others. The clubs who have been at the bottom for years have had their own Reserves team and it's made no difference.

Adelaide, Port and West Coast have won premierships without it and Fremantle, until this year, have built up a good team without it.

Adelaide was close to a premiership last year without a Reserves side. The wheels haven't fallen off this year for lack of a Reserves side.

I'm pleased you found nothing to disagree with for most of my post, though.

 

[*PAF]

...
I'm pleased you found nothing to disagree with for most of my post, though.

I'll be perfectly honest, I stopped reading it after noticing it was just another post based around Geelong/Melbourne reserves bit. If it wasn't ... sorry.

Your argument.

It's not logical. The point is that having your own Reserves side in the VFL works for some and not others. The clubs who have been at the bottom for years have had their own Reserves team and it's made no difference.

Adelaide, Port and West Coast have won premierships without it and Fremantle, until this year, have built up a good team without it.

Adelaide was close to a premiership last year without a Reserves side. The wheels haven't fallen off this year for lack of a Reserves side.
...

Teams with a reserves have overtaken teams without reserves. Every year we could find a basket case that has a reserves side however using that basket case as an example is a very weak argument.

Collingwood have been spending heaps on their off field stuff and until recently they had very little to show for it. Essendon have done the same and have had zero success so far. Should that be used as an argument of why off field spending is not necessary?

I'm not sure of what else to use to show that your point is the part that is flawed, really really flawed.

You got sucked into listening to the people that will use anything to shoot down whatever is proposed. Have you noticed that they never put anything forward to back their stance? All they ever do is try and belittle whatever anyone says.

 

[hugecannon]

Is Travis Tuck worth a look? Saw him briefly in yesterday's game and he looked like a beast out there. Shane started his career quite late but has been great for Richmond, maybe Travis could follow a similar path, if he's got his off field life sorted out.