Toast The Steves

[PapaJ]

The best part about the good old days is that they are gone.

Being broke, having a very poor list, going over the salary cap to pay that list, finishing last, having Damien Drum as coach, trading out James Clement, throwing the kitchen sink at some stupid trades that set the club back years - these are not things that I remember fondly. Things had to change if this club was going to survive let alone thrive. Amateur at best and perhaps dysfunctional at times in those days.

One of the first positive things the club did was to get Chris Connolly as coach. He took the job on the year after we had come last and he went out and promoted the club for all he was worth. He also had a winning ratio as coach of Freo of about 52%. Like him or loath him he began to change the Dockers for the better IMO. Cameron Schwab I was less sold on as he was a cowboy at the trade table but he and CC had the ticker to have a go at righting the listing ship that looked to be in danger of sinking.

From that time on Freo has taken lots of forward steps and very few backward steps in the pursuit of financial strength above all else. People at the top have identified that as a non negotiable for any professional AFL club to have a realistic chance of prolonged success and I for one am glad they have got the club out of debt and into a position of financial strength under previous Presidents and CEO's as well as the current incumbents.

The club under Rosich and Harris has done well off the field, well on the field and well in the drafting and recruiting stakes. This has been done off the foundations laid by the people who went before them and I believe it's a minor issue what jumper the team wears or how the song sounds. The real changes that define this club are being competent at the things that really count like finances, drafting, administration and keeping the players loyal to the club. I suspect the players see the club as a place they want to play their football at as they have been very loyal to Freo for quite a few years now. It's a professional league and if you are amateur at all in any part of the club you will struggle.

Chris Bond should change his name to Steve Bond as I am sure he is a large part of the changes that have taken place within the club since he has been in his current role. Then we could have the three Steves rather than simply "the Steves"

Yeah, good post.

However, I think you need to be fair on some of the details of the 'old days'. For example, ultimately Clement wanted out - now we weren't too good at being an attractive option for him an his sort, and Drum put a few players off side at the time etc., but you need to be fair - it takes two to tango and he was not keen to stay despite what legend might tell you. Basically it was a bit like what GWS have gone through, only without the help of the AFL to make it a bit less damaging. Other clubs, particularly aggressive ones like Collingwood, went hard at players that they thought were disheartened by our shenanigans.

Secondly, we broke the cap more on technicality (injury blow-out in 2001 and late lodgement in 2002 or was it 2003?) - both are not great, but it wasn't based on blatant over payment of an ordinary list. In the scheme of things, the infractions were relatively minor. They've since made it easier to avoid the 'injury related' cap blowouts now too FWIW. However, you're right, this had a knock on effect of the Francis fiasco which is the sort of thing I'm glad is behind us.

Finally, the 'kitchen sink' at some stupid trades - yeah, sure. But you need to be fair here too. I mean the Croad one is a case in point. It bombed out, no doubt. But part of the Connolly revival that you praise, included getting big names and capable players like him in. His heart was never in it, and we never found a way to use him at his best (which ended up being CHB), but at the time it didn't seem like a bomb deal at all - and if Croad have had been the player he ended up being back at the Hawks, it would have been a pretty shrewd move all considered given McPharlin was part of the deal etc.

Now I don't want to defend those things, like you I'm glad those days are behind us, history shows that some of the moves and machinations that our club made went nowhere and some were just plain stupid, but it's often overlooked that these things are only clear in hindsight.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Shame on you Fred ,what would Arnold the pig think ,pigs arse indeed.

Keep Arnold out of this.
If I had said Doris' arse , then all the Sheilas on here would be going off about bloody sexism.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

There are more angles to a trade than just on field, is Fred eluding to the off field element?

I'm not alluding to anything; I am straight up saying bringing Peter back set the club back years.
It wasn't a pittance contract either. What did we get ? A possession gatherer as a loose man in the back line.
What is wrong with you people ? You all witnessed it. Every qtr in every game we lost and there were many, there was the erudite tiny champ scampering around in defence gathering cheap possies.
They don't have AA loose man in defence but if they did, guess what ?

 

[go_the_dockers]

I'm not alluding to anything; I am straight up saying bringing Peter back set the club back years.
It wasn't a pittance contract either. What did we get ? A possession gatherer as a loose man in the back line.
What is wrong with you people ? You all witnessed it. Every qtr in every game we lost and there were many, there was the erudite tiny champ scampering around in defence gathering cheap possies.
They don't have AA loose man in defence but if they did, guess what ?

The loose man in defence is accurate. He did love a few cheap possies.


I am not sure how you can compare that trade with polak and pick 13 for Tarrant. Reid or reiwoldt would be unbelievable in our team.

 

[Moo]

I'm not alluding to anything; I am straight up saying bringing Peter back set the club back years.
It wasn't a pittance contract either. What did we get ? A possession gatherer as a loose man in the back line.
What is wrong with you people ? You all witnessed it. Every qtr in every game we lost and there were many, there was the erudite tiny champ scampering around in defence gathering cheap possies.
They don't have AA loose man in defence but if they did, guess what ?

I think you are underestimating the shitiness of some of our other blockbuster deals.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I think you are underestimating the shitiness of some of our other blockbuster deals.

No, that is not the case.
We have stuffed up many times. Everybody knows that but I also acknowledge that our club started out with people with no football background, running the club.
It is fair to say our initial player list was ridiculous but that was entirely due to a lack of concessions.
IIRC our first two signings were Peter Miller and Belly. FCS, that was nuts.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

I think you are underestimating the shitiness of some of our other blockbuster deals.

Picking up guys like Jack Anthony and Colin Sylvia should remind us all that "the old days" are never far away.

 

[PapaJ]

Picking up guys like Jack Anthony and Colin Sylvia should remind us all that "the old days" are never far away.

I think most acknowledge that in 'the old days' that we would have traded top line picks/players to get players that would end up being just as worthless. That's a big difference - betting the farm on a big name signing and taking a punt with some players that are effectively costing nothing more than a spot on the roster are not to be compared really.

 

[Seppo]

Picking up guys like Jack Anthony and Colin Sylvia should remind us all that "the old days" are never far away.

A PSD pick and FA is the same as the old days.

If we had traded a 1st or 2nd rounder for these players you would have a point.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Picking up guys like Jack Anthony and Colin Sylvia should remind us all that "the old days" are never far away.

Even though these players cost us nothing in terms of trade, I still believe we treated Jack poorly and we appear to be repeating it with Sylvia.
For instance, Jack was made a scapegoat of for his last game for Freo against Carlton where six players missed the game with Flu including Matt Pavlich. It transpired Anthony was more Ill than the others but played because he was being given little opportunity.
Colin is being given the same treatment on here as J.A.
So, no Reg it is nothing like the club's history of shitful trades.

 

[Moo]

A PSD pick and FA is the same as the old days.

If we had traded a 1st or 2nd rounder for these players you would have a point.

Agree Seppo, however I think the point of difference is that the aim of the game is to win flags .....it feels at times that it is akin to high treason to point out that after all we have done ...we are not there and perhaps may be on that slippery slope away from the only goal that matters.

Whilst we have learnt to market ourselves to an exisiting but slumbering fan base (partial credit) and we have finally worked out that you dont trade for magic beans (full credit and obviously we have read from the tale Jack and the Giant Head). Getting Ross Lyon was ruthless (A+) the best decision the club has ever made.

However we have still fallen short. We have made the running with big bodied mids, on the negative though we have been unable to recruit/recycle in players like our biggest 3 threats of the last 2 years and whilst we haven't actively recruited in - we also haven't actively traded out players.

We have gone from jokes to top 4 - it's nice and I have enjoyed it. The Steves aren't Scwhabb so they get a pass mark too.

In the book of Moo though it aint an A. We haven't nailed a first rounder consecutively, we lose Sandilands we are going to really feel it, Pav is our 2nd or 3rd forward option and McPharlin is basically gone ....we need to find a ton of potential to stay still - let alone find that extra 5%.

Exist to win premeirships....if we dont get there, it is a fail.

 

[Moo]

Even though these players cost us nothing in terms of trade, I still believe we treated Jack poorly and we appear to be repeating it with Sylvia.
For instance, Jack was made a scapegoat of for his last game for Freo against Carlton where six players missed the game with Flu including Matt Pavlich. It transpired Anthony was more Ill than the others but played because he was being given little opportunity.
Colin is being given the same treatment on here as J.A.
So, no Reg it is nothing like the club's history of shitful trades.

I dont know what we were thinking with Anthony. I remember posting a WAFL report on him early and he looked like a disinterested footballer, no chase and no interest.

Sylvia - apart from the rumoured $'s, I think he was more worthy of a punt.

Col's first time trial this pre-season is the most eagerly awaitied one in perhaps club history.

 

[Purple Suit]

Even though these players cost us nothing in terms of trade, I still believe we treated Jack poorly and we appear to be repeating it with Sylvia.
For instance, Jack was made a scapegoat of for his last game for Freo against Carlton where six players missed the game with Flu including Matt Pavlich. It transpired Anthony was more Ill than the others but played because he was being given little opportunity.
Colin is being given the same treatment on here as J.A.
So, no Reg it is nothing like the club's history of shitful trades.

The players that come over come due to bigger money. It might not be Buddy size deals but we are/were paying them 300-400K. Due to that, they are expected to perform and at least be best 22. Neither of the two players achieved that so I think fans are justified in giving them a bit of stick. Jack Anthony was woeful in 95% of his games for Freo and probably played the worst 15 minutes of footy I've ever seen in the game you talked about.

Clapping a losing side is the old Freo. The new Freo want our team to succeed.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Shit, Moo, now you've gone and done it. How dare you use reasoning and logic.

I'm a bit frustrated that we keep coming up short when it comes to nabbing quality players who are available, and that we are hitching our wagon to ageing stars who will have trouble making it through a full season.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I dont know what we were thinking with Anthony. I remember posting a WAFL report on him early and he looked like a disinterested footballer, no chase and no interest.

Sylvia - apart from the rumoured $'s, I think he was more worthy of a punt.

Col's first time trial this pre-season is the most eagerly awaitied one in perhaps club history.

His early days with us, he was probably confused with the message from Harvey. Dispirited players play accordingly. That's what Jack looked like to me.
As for Colin Sylvia, you are right . We will all be keen as mustard on his time trial this year. Problem is, I think he will miss it because of recent surgery.
The poor bastard's on a hiding to nothing.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

The players that come over come due to bigger money. It might not be Buddy size deals but we are/were paying them 300-400K. Due to that, they are expected to perform and at least be best 22. Neither of the two players achieved that so I think fans are justified in giving them a bit of stick. Jack Anthony was woeful in 95% of his games for Freo and probably played the worst 15 minutes of footy I've ever seen in the game you talked about.

Clapping a losing side is the old Freo. The new Freo want our team to succeed.

Mate, that's too simplistic. You gotta look deeper for mitigators. Jack's last game the fella was putrid ill. He was the sickest of the group but was still determined to have a crack.
And as for adding in the clapping of a losing side quip, you don't need to add dramatic effects.
We all want our club to succeed and it starts with the fan base not turning dog on our new players. Once they are on our list, that's it they are Dockers. AFAIAC.

 

[Purple Suit]

Mate, that's too simplistic. You gotta look deeper for mitigators. Jack's last game the fella was putrid ill. He was the sickest of the group but was still determined to have a crack.
And as for adding in the clapping of a losing side quip, you don't need to add dramatic effects.
We all want our club to succeed and it starts with the fan base not turning dog on our new players. Once they are on our list, that's it they are Dockers. AFAIAC.

But we don't get stuck into them straight away. Jack had plenty of time to hold down a spot and got himself into a rut without the fans pushing him. We just finished him off once he was on the rack.

I think of it like putting down an animal that you accidentally run over in the bush. It's not nice but it has to be done some times.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

His early days with us, he was probably confused with the message from Harvey. Dispirited players play accordingly. That's what Jack looked like to me.

How long is it going to be before you let go of the "Harvey is to blame for everything" line, Fred? Jack had one year under Harvey and one year under Lyon.

 

[Kram]

Yeah that makes sense, it's everyone else's fault apart from the players themselves.

 

[Moo]

How long is it going to be before you let go of the "Harvey is to blame for everything" line, Fred? Jack had one year under Harvey and one year under Lyon.

Jack wasn't a great fit for Lyon Brand football though....in fact he would be the polar opposite to who you would select.

 

[Frank J Moose]

Shit, Moo, now you've gone and done it. How dare you use reasoning and logic.

I'm a bit frustrated that we keep coming up short when it comes to nabbing quality players who are available, and that we are hitching our wagon to ageing stars who will have trouble making it through a full season.

How can you blsme the club for playets not wanting to live in Perth. We can't recruit because players do not want to be based in Perth. Full Stop. We can offer bigger contracts, but if Chips Frawley wants to play for Hawthorn for $50K-$100K less there is stuff all we can do. So given the environment the new admin do an excellent job. It's a tough industry when 92% of the participants fail every year.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

How long is it going to be before you let go of the "Harvey is to blame for everything" line, Fred? Jack had one year under Harvey and one year under Lyon.

Because I am aware of details about his treatment of Rhys Palmer that the public isn't.
The absolute proof that the bloke has NFI about coaching was the Hawks game at the MCG in 2011. Absolutely unforgivable that he destroyed that game with his utter ineptitude. Rhys was a part of that game as well.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Because I am aware of details about his treatment of Rhys Palmer that the public isn't.
The absolute proof that the bloke has NFI about coaching was the Hawks game at the MCG in 2011. Absolutely unforgivable that he destroyed that game with his utter ineptitude. Rhys was a part of that game as well.

So the short answer is never.

Palmer's disposal was worse than Danyle Pearce's, and that's saying something.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

So the short answer is never.

Palmer's disposal was worse than Danyle Pearce's, and that's saying something.

You are correct.
A campaigner does campaigner acts.

 

[freoextra]

Because I am aware of details about his treatment of Rhys Palmer that the public isn't.
The absolute proof that the bloke has NFI about coaching was the Hawks game at the MCG in 2011. Absolutely unforgivable that he destroyed that game with his utter ineptitude. Rhys was a part of that game as well.

Can believe your statement because there was a sudden and total lack of faith shown in him which was sad to see. Hope he continues to build his career at GWS.